Choosing an integrated flight school
 

Hi,
im currently 17 and turning 18 next year where I hope to start my pilot training. I have visited many academy’s before lockdown in person and attended a few events virtually. I am looking at integrated ATPL NOT modular please don’t turn this into a modular discussion I don’t mean to sound rude. But I would like to hear your opinions on L3 Harris, CAE, FTE, Skyborne, Leading edge, FTA and any other you would consider. Which academy’s have had best results and stuck to their promises etc. I understand at the current time there are little to no pilot jobs about however and some internal members of staff of airlines have said they are looking at recruiting cadets in April this year. And with the integrated training taking 18 months to complete there is plenty of time for improvement. Again I’d like to remind you I won’t be considering the modular route so in the politest way possible don’t turn this into an integrated vs modular thread there are plenary of those about.
thanks in advance.

Advice on Modular Training
 

Hi All,

I was hoping for some advice on the best route with Modular Training, each time I try and sort a plan I get conflicting advice with the way Brexit has gone.

So I currently live in Northern Ireland and can train at the Ulster Flying Club for PPL, I currently have experience on microlights but have paused that license due tho the hours not counting towards ppl. I would be happy with a time frame of 3 to 4 years to complete training excluding type rating depending on my circumstances. I can travel around for different parts of the training so would appreciate any recommendations.

I appreciate any help or maybe advice on how other people have went with it

Many Thanks

Hello!

My best advice is to stick with the modular route as time is very much on your side with the plan you have. Get your PPL done and find a method of hours building by looking for a "non-equity" shared group. What I mean by "non equity" is you buy in to becoming a member of a flying group that offers cheaper flying. It sounds daunting when I use the word "aircraft share", the way these groups work or at least the one I was involved in, would mean a security deposit and a monthly membership cost (for example £400 deposit which you get back when leaving the group and £25 per month for a wet rate in a cherokee for say £115 per hour with no attached maintenance costs!!!), far more cheaper than using a flying school to burn holes in the sky. Much more rewarding as you are more independent and learn the ropes with other group members or friends/colleagues whom you will come across. Alongside this is your ATPL theory, full time or distance, depending on your circmstances ie BristolGS. Then you'd probably want to go for your adavanced training ME/IR/CPL with one school, there's plenty who offer packages for modular's ie aeros, FTA. As for Brexit, well licence wise it appears jumping to a new state of licence issue (or SOLI) is irrelevant for now unless you have the right to live and work in Europe, however, don't set your sites always to the airlines. There are many GA outfits across the UK that you could start with first to add more strings to the bow, air ambluance, flight surveying, ILS calibration to name a few which will build experience, and add in a few interview anecdotes that would set you apart from the rest as well as those much needed hours. Then bide your time and who knows, perhaps common sense will prevail on UK licence recognition ..... This industry is hugely dynamic and opportunities come and go very quickly, one period is bad then its booming, very cyclical and often in waves but you have the time to catch the next crest when it arrises. Things may look bleak now but aviation always bounces back in some shape or form, just be ready for when it does.

Good luck!

Ab Initio Cadet Program Help/Info
 

Hello everyone,

This is my first post here so a bit of info about me, 10 years as CC, last 5 in one of the ME3s until the pandemic hit. Had looked into pursuing the f/d career before but the cost was always a bit prohibitive for me plus that sort of investment without a "guaranteed" job at the end is a big decision to make.
Since end of 2020 been doing what I have to do, completely different industry, but just today I got a response from a flight school that I had forgotten I had applied to one of its cadet programs. The school in question is BAA flight school out of Vilnius for the LOT cadet program. If I pass the assessment, I am guaranteed a placement at LOT as an F/O.
I am skeptical by nature, prepare for the worst, hope for the best kind of person so is this too good to be true or is my paranoia kicking in?

1. Did some research about the school but got a lot of conflicting reviews and none from 2021. Any input would be appreciated
2. The industry took a huge beating with the pandemic, saw a lot of f/d friends get the axe, surely an airline looking to hire would like to hire a proven pilot with a few k hrs rather than train a new one. (skepticism kicking in)
3. Any general advice/tips appreciated

Opinions and Advice (UK)
 

This is my first post so you’ll have to excuse me.

I won’t bore you with the usual I’ve always wanted to be a pilot ect. Just need some honest advice on training and the state of the industry. (I understand you don’t have a crystal ball but any thoughts appreciated)

I’ve been planing on starting an ATPL course next summer. I am currently undecided on the integrated v modular route. I am aware that many seem to prefer modular so I was wondering if I could get some up to date advice on UK Schools and especially the process of the modular route, it’s likely this would be full time. Also if I were to go integrated I would probably be looking at (CAE).
Do you guys have any pros and cons of each method?
(I have read some older posts but just wondering if there was more up to date info)

However in your opinions is it even worth starting training in a year? Should I be trying to space out my training? Should I try work some other aviation related jobs or just go straight into learning.

Thanks in advance for your contributions and sorry if this was a little messy/in the wrong place. Just really want to know the best course of action to take to achieve my dream.

What do people think of this plan? I am 25 years old, have been working an office job full time since graduating from uni two years ago. Decent job security, pay is acceptable for this point in my life, low stress.

Always dreamed of becoming a pilot, got to final stage of interviews at a competitive cadetship scheme for my national airline (Ireland) in Dec '19, and (thankfully, as it turns out) wasn't selected. I can't bank on cadetships turning up again in the near- or medium-term, so I figure I'd better start training via the modular route and collect my licenses while the aviation industry in Europe gradually recovers.

My plan is to keep the day job, and pick up my licences on the side over a period of 3-4 years. Hopefully by this time, airlines here will be hiring again, and I will be in a position to apply, having ticked all the qualification boxes. What flaws do you see in this plan? Anything extra I should consider?

Some additional questions I have concern hour building. From what I gather, this is generally done after you've got your CPL.

1) What kind of hours are needed to be a competitive candidate in Europe? Can they be single engine or is multi-engine preferable?
2) What are the key considerations when building hours? Price? Location? Aircraft type?
3) Is it possible to build hours at a reasonable pace while working my current job? Or would it be preferable to set aside some savings and live somewhere cheap while building them? Or should I become a CFI or some other flying job and get paid to build hours?

I know the answers to these questions will vary person to person, but I'd like to get some rough guidance at least on which options I should exclude. Happy to give more details about my situation if that would help inform the answers.

Flying is meant to be and is fun, take friends or family for a spin if they chip in for fuel you could always fly somewhere new and interesting for a low price.

Great plan, are you mentally prepared to endure it for 3-4 years and maybe longer if you dont get that gig right away?

Modular
 

Supercub1

go intergrated of you have a jet job lined up at an airline, which you most probably dont.

Go modular space your training at your own pace to meet market demands. if there's no jobs in a year thats fine do your ATPL books as soon as jobs start coming then you can increase your training speed. For the love of money dont go intergrated right now.

I like the idea of having family and friends chip in for a fun trip, thanks!

I fully expect not to get hired after 3-4 years. Have seen Eurocontrol estimate a return to 2019 traffic levels as late as 2029, and I'm ready for that possibility. I have wanted to fly planes since I was 5, so I don't mind waiting another few years for an airline job.

Thanks for your input :)

Jammysticks

Although you're building hours every time you fly, "hour building" in the traditional sense is generally done in order to meet the requirements (200) of the CPL. There is very little point building hours after you have the CPL, as most airlines aren't too interested in single engine piston hours, so to them a 500 hour CPL is no different to a 200 hour CPL. There are a few exceptions obviously.

Just because someone can fly a plane doesn't mean they'll be any good in a multi pilot jet. That's why airlines generally look for multi crew hours and specifically, time on type. When there aren't enough of these, or when called for by the business model, they will turn to cadet pilots. Quite often the ultimate discriminator isn't hours, but recency, meaning a 200 hour pilot who passed his/her test last month is deemed a safer bet than a 300 hour pilot who passed it 2 years ago.

Thanks for this clear explanation. Am I to gather that the best approach for me, then, is to get my CPL, stay relatively current, and apply for a cadetship when one opens up? From what I understand, it is very difficult to get multi-crew hours or time-on-type without actually being employed by an airline in the first place. If I'm wrong about that, I'd love to know! From what you're saying, I may have a better chance by building multi-crew hours if that is somehow possible.

The best approach in the current economy is to get the following, in order:

Medical
PPL
Night rating
ATPL exams
CBIR
CPL single engine.

That will get you to within 6 weeks of the finish line (the finish line being MEIR and MCC/JOC) for minimal cost, while preserving your exam passes. Then you just wait it out.

Unless you're Bill Gates, you won't see a multi crew aircraft until you've got your first job, the name of the game is to get to that point.

Thanks for this, this is exactly the info I needed :)

Are you saying that when you're applying to airlines, it doesn't matter whether the CPL was recent, but that the MEIR and MCC ought to have been recent?

More or less, the CPL test is a vfr navigation and handling exercise and it's arguably not that relevant to airline flying. The MEIR and MCC/JOC are a lot more relevant since they are all about hand flying on instruments, and flying as part of a crew.

As far as modular flying training goes, nowadays people tend to do the CPL/IR together almost like it's one module rather than two. If you do then separately, even if separated by several years - you haven't technically completed your flight training until you've finished the last module, and who says you have to mention individual dates for each course?
You can still legitimately say (on a CV): "EASA/CAA CPL/MEIR. Modular flight training completed at ABC school on date XYZ. MCC/JOC completed at ABC school on date XYZ" and more importantly, skills that actually matter (MEIR) will be recent.

Brilliant, thank you!

Keeping licenses valid post integrated route
 

Hi all, I plan to start integrated training in early 2022, the structure and continuity appeals to me and as I have recently finished university and don't have a specific job or any commitments to hold along side a part time modular course I would rather just get stuck in and spend 18 months getting everything done and obtaining my license and take it from there. I am aware most people are recommending modular at the moment for obvious resons, but if I were to go for intergrated and graduate say late 2023 and there was still no airline jobs, what are the processes for keeping licenses valid? I would probably look to work at a simulator company or become a flight instructor until there are airline jobs, does this automatically keep licenses ticking over?
No need to tell me, wait 2 years, spend this time getting a degree (already done that), there wont be any jobs for another 5 years, integrated is a waste of money etc. Just want to know what the processes are for keeping licenses and ratings valid until I obtain my first airline job.
Many thanks in advance.

Your Integrated course gives you exactly the same licence as a modular course and the requirements to keep it valid are the same:

Class 1 - renewal every year
IR - licence proficiency check every year this needs to be completed whilst the IR is still valid otherwise further training is required. 1.5 hours usually in a DA42 these days.

This is the bare minimum and It’s not cheap. This doesn’t include renewing your SEP which is extra and done every two years. This would be needed if you plan to do an FI course.

Like many have said: there’s no point in paying schools thousands more than you have to arrive at the same point. Integrated is a poor choice these days.

I just don't understand why someone would do an integrated course. For the same money I would go modular and walk away with a frozen ATPL for both Airplanes and Helicopters and FI for both...

Integrated died a long time ago and it has been living off its past contracts for too long. The only way for it to survive and become competitive would be to drop its price, however by doing so would undermine its marketing BS. By going integrated you effectively pay double for fewer flying hours, less flexibility and more disappointment.

Stay well clear is the overwhelming advice.

I don't know if I am looking at the wrong places but for modular to do everything including MCC and UPRT courses, its around £70,000 (aeros and tayside aviation are ones I am looking at). Then by the time I pay for accomodation for say 18 months it will come to roughly the same price as an integrated course that does include accomodation. So to me the price is not any different, it just comes with the advantage of slowing down your training if needed.