Training in the USA - Visa and TSA Requirements
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B200Drvr
Many thanks for the info.
It does seem that the visa waiver scheme applies to type ratings. I rang the US embassy and person there also thought that it could be done under the scheme.
Provo
Many thanks for the info.
It does seem that the visa waiver scheme applies to type ratings. I rang the US embassy and person there also thought that it could be done under the scheme.
Provo
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B visa and type rating in the USA.
here you will find more information about visa requirement in the USA.
as you can see, there is still a problem with the visa B.
hope this helps!
if you wish to receive this in a PDF format(the official information), PM me with your email address.
Transportation Security Administration
July 21st 2006
INFORMATION
Purpose
This document will serve as information and clarification on the Alien Flight Training Program and rule. Recent misunderstandings and misinformations regarding the suitability of immigrations documents and visas has resulted in confusion and misinterpretations of the rule by the flight training industry and TSA representatives.
Background
On September 20, 2004 , TSA published the interim final rule (IFR) establishing the Alien Flight Student Program (AFSP) (69 Federal Register 56324, codified at 49 C.F.R, Part 1552). The IFR require FAA-regulated flight schools to notify TSA when a foreign student requests flight training, and require the student to submit to TSA identifying information, including his or her fingerprints, prior to beginning flight training.
Subsequently, the TSA uses this information to conduct a security threat assessment (STA)on a student in order to determine whether the student poses a threat to aviation or national security.
In conducting the STA, TSA works closely with other Federal agencies including the Federal Bureau of Investigation (FBI), the Bureau of Customs and Immigration Service (USCIS), and the Bureau of Immigration and Customs Enforcement (ICE), Department of State (DOS), and the Student and Exchange Visitors Information System (SEVIS).
As Part of the Supporting documentation used to vet candidates, The TSA may examine a Student's visa. Typically visas are not reviewed unless additional derogatory information is otherwise obtained. TSA queries ICE for an immigration status check on all candidates with possible derogatory information. As part of the immigration status check, ICE reviews visas for validity (i.e. not expired, revoked, etc.) and not appropriateness (i.e. B-1, M-1, F-1). ICE with then relay its findings to TSA for appropriate action, and this may result in denial of a candidate's flight training. TSA takes these actions solely at the advice of ICE—the agency responsible for enforcement of visa violations. TSA does not create visa policy , nor does it enforce visas. All actions taken with respect to visa violations are done so on the advice of ICE.
TSA , which does not have the regulatory or the expertise to make decision on the suitability of visa, works with the responsible immigration agencies and departments (ICE and DOS), to determine if candidates have the correct visa for the appropriate purpose. However, to date the information received from the various agencies has been conflicting and ambiguous and has led to confusion and inconsistent application.
Currently DOS and ICE appear to have conflicting views on the appropriate
of B visas for flight training. Department of State, Which has the responsibility for development of visa policy, contents that a B visa is appropriate for flight training. However, ICE , which enforces visa requirements, has asserted that B visas are not appropriate for flight training. Regardless of the type of immigration document and flight training candidate possesses, all foreign flight training candidates seeking to obtain those FAA airman certificate and ratings as outlined in the rule must undergo an STA.
Discussion
to resolve this situation TSA, has requested clarification of visa requirements from DHS HQ. DHS Policy has taken the lead to develop guidance and coordinate with ICE, DOS, and other involved agencies. It is envisioned that the guidance materials will clearly discern the proper visas for various types of flight training. Based on the forgoing, TSA representatives having security inspection responsibility and oversight authority for flight training providers will adhere to performing those inspections duties outlined within the PARIS prompts for the the respective regulated entity and other related TSA inspection guidance material and directives, and will abstain from making visa appropriate or validity determination until further notice, as appropriate.
Once a definitive decision is made regarding the appropriate visas for flight training purposes, TSA will ensure that flight school. ASI's, and other involved parties are informed. TSA will also revise its vetting and inspection process to accurately reflect the correct visa requirement.
In addition , the Office of General Aviation, which oversees the AFT program, is conducting flight school inspections to ensure that flight training providers are aware of, understand and are in compliance with the regulatory requirement of 49 CFR 1552. In addition , the Office is providing training for ASI's to ensure field units are able to conduct outreach and inspection visits at flight schools within their geographic areas of responsibility.
as you can see, there is still a problem with the visa B.
hope this helps!
if you wish to receive this in a PDF format(the official information), PM me with your email address.
Transportation Security Administration
July 21st 2006
INFORMATION
Purpose
This document will serve as information and clarification on the Alien Flight Training Program and rule. Recent misunderstandings and misinformations regarding the suitability of immigrations documents and visas has resulted in confusion and misinterpretations of the rule by the flight training industry and TSA representatives.
Background
On September 20, 2004 , TSA published the interim final rule (IFR) establishing the Alien Flight Student Program (AFSP) (69 Federal Register 56324, codified at 49 C.F.R, Part 1552). The IFR require FAA-regulated flight schools to notify TSA when a foreign student requests flight training, and require the student to submit to TSA identifying information, including his or her fingerprints, prior to beginning flight training.
Subsequently, the TSA uses this information to conduct a security threat assessment (STA)on a student in order to determine whether the student poses a threat to aviation or national security.
In conducting the STA, TSA works closely with other Federal agencies including the Federal Bureau of Investigation (FBI), the Bureau of Customs and Immigration Service (USCIS), and the Bureau of Immigration and Customs Enforcement (ICE), Department of State (DOS), and the Student and Exchange Visitors Information System (SEVIS).
As Part of the Supporting documentation used to vet candidates, The TSA may examine a Student's visa. Typically visas are not reviewed unless additional derogatory information is otherwise obtained. TSA queries ICE for an immigration status check on all candidates with possible derogatory information. As part of the immigration status check, ICE reviews visas for validity (i.e. not expired, revoked, etc.) and not appropriateness (i.e. B-1, M-1, F-1). ICE with then relay its findings to TSA for appropriate action, and this may result in denial of a candidate's flight training. TSA takes these actions solely at the advice of ICE—the agency responsible for enforcement of visa violations. TSA does not create visa policy , nor does it enforce visas. All actions taken with respect to visa violations are done so on the advice of ICE.
TSA , which does not have the regulatory or the expertise to make decision on the suitability of visa, works with the responsible immigration agencies and departments (ICE and DOS), to determine if candidates have the correct visa for the appropriate purpose. However, to date the information received from the various agencies has been conflicting and ambiguous and has led to confusion and inconsistent application.
Currently DOS and ICE appear to have conflicting views on the appropriate
of B visas for flight training. Department of State, Which has the responsibility for development of visa policy, contents that a B visa is appropriate for flight training. However, ICE , which enforces visa requirements, has asserted that B visas are not appropriate for flight training. Regardless of the type of immigration document and flight training candidate possesses, all foreign flight training candidates seeking to obtain those FAA airman certificate and ratings as outlined in the rule must undergo an STA.
Discussion
to resolve this situation TSA, has requested clarification of visa requirements from DHS HQ. DHS Policy has taken the lead to develop guidance and coordinate with ICE, DOS, and other involved agencies. It is envisioned that the guidance materials will clearly discern the proper visas for various types of flight training. Based on the forgoing, TSA representatives having security inspection responsibility and oversight authority for flight training providers will adhere to performing those inspections duties outlined within the PARIS prompts for the the respective regulated entity and other related TSA inspection guidance material and directives, and will abstain from making visa appropriate or validity determination until further notice, as appropriate.
Once a definitive decision is made regarding the appropriate visas for flight training purposes, TSA will ensure that flight school. ASI's, and other involved parties are informed. TSA will also revise its vetting and inspection process to accurately reflect the correct visa requirement.
In addition , the Office of General Aviation, which oversees the AFT program, is conducting flight school inspections to ensure that flight training providers are aware of, understand and are in compliance with the regulatory requirement of 49 CFR 1552. In addition , the Office is providing training for ASI's to ensure field units are able to conduct outreach and inspection visits at flight schools within their geographic areas of responsibility.
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do you mean to go to the USA without a visa?this is what you suggest?you story about upgrade training and the usual bla bla coming from nowhere is a total nonsens...
in this case, you should read carefully the letter of the TSA.
you need a visa for any flight training in the USA(b1-m1-f1...).
for type rating you need a tourist visa issued by the DHS and in this case it is the B visa (this is what schools say and I agree ).
the problem is one office doesn't recognize the tourist visa(the ICE, thats the one who inspect if your visa is alright), and in a certain way you are right, you can go to the USA with no visa and hope(based on their misinterpretations) they will not check you. If they do, they will ask you to leave the classroom and go home the same day(with TSA or without TSA authorisation).
Many students have been denied for improper visa (with a b2 visa) because the ICE says a B2 visa is NOTt appropriated for flight training when the DHS says you NEED a B visa (most school will tell you to come with a B visa based on DHS regulation, but in conflict with ICE regulations!!!).Visa Waiver is even less appropriated and in this case you should contact the TSA or your Embassy because I doubt they will let you in unless you lie.
Now I don't know what kind of game you are playing or if you work for a US school,
but if you have some evidences that you can go to the USA without a visa(for " an upgrade training" ) , let us know, I think the US authorities would be very interested who told you to come in the USA without a visa to make an initial type rating.
I will not answer to you, unless you prove me your facts.you may PM me if you would like to share your source of information.
at this time, this is under revision, the question is WHEN this problem of visa regarding aviation will be fixed?
in this case, you should read carefully the letter of the TSA.
you need a visa for any flight training in the USA(b1-m1-f1...).
for type rating you need a tourist visa issued by the DHS and in this case it is the B visa (this is what schools say and I agree ).
the problem is one office doesn't recognize the tourist visa(the ICE, thats the one who inspect if your visa is alright), and in a certain way you are right, you can go to the USA with no visa and hope(based on their misinterpretations) they will not check you. If they do, they will ask you to leave the classroom and go home the same day(with TSA or without TSA authorisation).
Many students have been denied for improper visa (with a b2 visa) because the ICE says a B2 visa is NOTt appropriated for flight training when the DHS says you NEED a B visa (most school will tell you to come with a B visa based on DHS regulation, but in conflict with ICE regulations!!!).Visa Waiver is even less appropriated and in this case you should contact the TSA or your Embassy because I doubt they will let you in unless you lie.
Now I don't know what kind of game you are playing or if you work for a US school,
but if you have some evidences that you can go to the USA without a visa(for " an upgrade training" ) , let us know, I think the US authorities would be very interested who told you to come in the USA without a visa to make an initial type rating.
I will not answer to you, unless you prove me your facts.you may PM me if you would like to share your source of information.
at this time, this is under revision, the question is WHEN this problem of visa regarding aviation will be fixed?
Last edited by dartagnan; 5th Nov 2006 at 12:42.
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For those who don't know dartagnan was rejected by the TSA as not suitable for training in the USA. He repeatadly starts these silly posts about needing a visa to do a type rating and has been told numerous times that YOU CAN NOT GET A VISA TO DO A TYPE RATING. Type ratings are covered under the visa waiver system so to sum up...You don’t need a visa to do a type rating! 
It is a vocational qualification as you already have to be a qualified commercial pilot to do a TR!
To do pilot training (i.e. CPL/IR) in the US you need to have a training visa which is an M1. For obvious reasons a tourist visa does not cover flight training.
No game (unlike you with your blatant attempt to put people off travelling to the US because you feel begrudged that you are not welcome there) I do not work for any school, im a qualified airline pilot flying the Saab 340.
I have done 2 type ratings in the USA both times without a visa (because you don’t need one). All TR students travelling to the US do so under the visa wavier programme. This is fully acceptable by the Immigration dept. The US embassy told me to go to the US without a visa as did the FTO's because they are right and you are WRONG!
After reading your posts regarding NetJets (and other threads) you come across as very immature and If this was indicated to the TSA, its hardly surprising they rejected your application to train on heavy aircraft.
It is a vocational qualification as you already have to be a qualified commercial pilot to do a TR!
To do pilot training (i.e. CPL/IR) in the US you need to have a training visa which is an M1. For obvious reasons a tourist visa does not cover flight training.
Now I don't know what kind of game you are playing or if you work for a US schools,
but if you have some evidences that you can go to the USA without a visa , let us know, I think the US authorities would be very interested who told you to come in the USA without a visa.
but if you have some evidences that you can go to the USA without a visa , let us know, I think the US authorities would be very interested who told you to come in the USA without a visa.
I have done 2 type ratings in the USA both times without a visa (because you don’t need one). All TR students travelling to the US do so under the visa wavier programme. This is fully acceptable by the Immigration dept. The US embassy told me to go to the US without a visa as did the FTO's because they are right and you are WRONG!
After reading your posts regarding NetJets (and other threads) you come across as very immature and If this was indicated to the TSA, its hardly surprising they rejected your application to train on heavy aircraft.
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please read my initial post, there is no need to insult me.Good for you if I am wrong and if you did 2 type ratings in the USA.I did 1 and I have been rejected for the second one several year later for improper visa.
I am warning students on this forum that at this time, there is a bug in their immigration system and you can lose your money and time if you are a selfsponsored students.
Better to wait until these problems are fixed.
thank you!
Last edited by dartagnan; 5th Nov 2006 at 13:22.
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From the US travel webite. I have highlighted the relevent information. Type ratings are classed as business travel.
------------------------------------------------------------------------
Which travelers may use the Visa Waiver Program to enter the United States?
Nationals of the 27 countries participating in the Visa Waiver Program may use VWP if:
------------------------------------------------------------------------
Which travelers may use the Visa Waiver Program to enter the United States?
Nationals of the 27 countries participating in the Visa Waiver Program may use VWP if:
- The purpose of their stay in the United States is 90 days or less for tourism or business (if in doubt, travelers should check with the nearest Embassy or Consulate to verify that what they plan to do is considered tourism or business.Transit through the United States is generally permitted. Note that foreign media representatives planning to engage in that vocation in the United States are not eligible, as the purpose of their stay does not qualify as “business”. These professionals must obtain a nonimmigrant media (I) visa. See media visa for more information. Also see Visitor Visas – Business and Pleasure;
- They present a machine-readable passport (MRP) valid for six months past their expected stay in the United States (unless country-specific agreements provide exemptions). This includes all categories of passports -- regular, diplomatic, and official, when the traveler is seeking to enter the United States for business or tourist purposes, for a maximum of 90 days
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I train at FSI 2 times a year, am a green card holder and need TSA approval. I know for a FACT they require foreigners to be on Student or Crew visas at the training centers I visit.
Why would any one in their right mind not bother to get a student visa for a $20000.00 type rating, what type of idiot would even risk such a thing!
Also what type of REAL professional pilot would even contemplate risking getting the visa denied stamp, or entry denied stamp on their passport when our professional is aimed at ...guess what.... travelling! and guess what we need to travel.... a passport, and who is going to be stupid enough to present that passport to their employer with the denied stamp in it. Sorry Mercenary Pilot maybe you are this idiot! , all I can say is good luck!!
Unless Mercenary Pilot you work for a TRTO here in the USA and can post some factual information, DO NOT enter such trash onto this site.
Why would any one in their right mind not bother to get a student visa for a $20000.00 type rating, what type of idiot would even risk such a thing!
Also what type of REAL professional pilot would even contemplate risking getting the visa denied stamp, or entry denied stamp on their passport when our professional is aimed at ...guess what.... travelling! and guess what we need to travel.... a passport, and who is going to be stupid enough to present that passport to their employer with the denied stamp in it. Sorry Mercenary Pilot maybe you are this idiot! , all I can say is good luck!!
Unless Mercenary Pilot you work for a TRTO here in the USA and can post some factual information, DO NOT enter such trash onto this site.
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Why would any one in their right mind not bother to get a student visa for a $20000.00 type rating, what type of idiot would even risk such a thing!
YOU CANT GET A STUDENT VISA FOR A TYPE RATING!!!
itsbrokenagain you obviously have no idea what you are talking about!
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Call flight safety my friend, they can issue them.
I think we have put enough info in this thread now for wannabes to realise what they should do in this situation. ( ok I will spell it out, call the training provider and dont believe a Saab 340 pilot who has done it just twice on a visa waiver.)
End of posts by my on this subject, I have to go and look at the earth from FL 410 now for the next 6 hrs, have a great day!
I think we have put enough info in this thread now for wannabes to realise what they should do in this situation. ( ok I will spell it out, call the training provider and dont believe a Saab 340 pilot who has done it just twice on a visa waiver.)
End of posts by my on this subject, I have to go and look at the earth from FL 410 now for the next 6 hrs, have a great day!
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Why have you just bought Concorde for your flight sim? 
Yes call the training provider (You should always do this anyway) they will tell you that they can't issue a visa for a type rating. Its a grey area in the regulations and for the time being can only be done on a visa wavier. You will not be turned away from the country because its the only way it can be done at the moment.
Yes call the training provider (You should always do this anyway) they will tell you that they can't issue a visa for a type rating. Its a grey area in the regulations and for the time being can only be done on a visa wavier. You will not be turned away from the country because its the only way it can be done at the moment.
Blah Blah Blah
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I agree...however not all countries/nationalities are part of the VISA waiver program, So if you belong to one of those countries you are a bit stuffed, unless an M1 is accepted for each specific case.
An F1?? that is a spousal VISA..I think getting married to a US national is going a little to far just to get a TR!
So my question is..dartagnan is you country/nationality part of the Visa waiver program?
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Really? (this has already been stated in this thread)
Anyone who reads this thread and has investigated the matter will invariably come to the conclusion that there is a lot of confusion among agencies, FTO/TRTO's and Pilots.
Also let me remind readers that the requirements and TSA clearance process for a SSTR are different from those for an airline sponsored candidate.
Correct me if I'm wrong but from what dartagnan has posted
I come to the conclusion that for the time being TSA will not deny applications based on the candidate's visa status.
Anyone who reads this thread and has investigated the matter will invariably come to the conclusion that there is a lot of confusion among agencies, FTO/TRTO's and Pilots.
Also let me remind readers that the requirements and TSA clearance process for a SSTR are different from those for an airline sponsored candidate.
Correct me if I'm wrong but from what dartagnan has posted
Based on the forgoing, TSA representatives having security inspection responsibility and oversight authority for flight training providers will adhere to performing those inspections duties outlined within the PARIS prompts for the the respective regulated entity and other related TSA inspection guidance material and directives, and will abstain from making visa appropriate or validity determination until further notice, as appropriate.
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Did a typerating(12,500lbs+ cat) last year in the US... No Visa requirement as I already hold the certificates. Just had to go thru TSA process and fingerprinting.
Also did recurrent this year and no requirement to have Visa, the school must inform TSA of you and if nothing is heard you just go there and train.
Also did recurrent this year and no requirement to have Visa, the school must inform TSA of you and if nothing is heard you just go there and train.
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Mercenary pilot is right...(we talk about SELF-SPONSORED PILOTS,not CREW MEMBERS SENT BY AN AIRLINE)
you do NOT need a visa for type rating as long the TSA does NOT check your visa status WITH THE ICE.
If they check your visa status, you need a visa (you can not get it anyway ...)
2 situations:
1)
If you are the unlucky pilot, your file will be sent by the TSA to the ICE for visa inspection , and your application will be denied(only M1-J1-F1...) and as TSA has the final decision, your money is lost...
2)
If you are lucky (like Mercenary pilot), your file will stay in the TSA office, and you will be approved for flight training(even if you have no visa).
the bug is here: flight school who train pilot on flight simulators can not issue you an M1 visa, when the ICE asks for an M1 visa.
this bug in the system will reject automatically your application and you can not get an hearing or an refund.
some pilots have already been refused for flight training...(read situation 1)
and please,read this again: ICE with then relay its findings to TSA for appropriate action, and this may result in denial of a candidate's flight training.
well guys,they don't check always your visa, because the TSA knows your application will be denied and they won't see your $$$, but as they have to do their job, they pick one or 2 unlucky guys from the lot...and they screw up your application with no question asked(if you are the unlucky guy from the lot)....
I hope this situation will change soon because it is an unfair lottery, (and I do not talk about pilots who went in the USA and who had to buy a ticket to go home the same day ...)
you do NOT need a visa for type rating as long the TSA does NOT check your visa status WITH THE ICE.
If they check your visa status, you need a visa (you can not get it anyway ...)
2 situations:
1)
If you are the unlucky pilot, your file will be sent by the TSA to the ICE for visa inspection , and your application will be denied(only M1-J1-F1...) and as TSA has the final decision, your money is lost...
2)
If you are lucky (like Mercenary pilot), your file will stay in the TSA office, and you will be approved for flight training(even if you have no visa).
the bug is here: flight school who train pilot on flight simulators can not issue you an M1 visa, when the ICE asks for an M1 visa.
this bug in the system will reject automatically your application and you can not get an hearing or an refund.
some pilots have already been refused for flight training...(read situation 1)
and please,read this again: ICE with then relay its findings to TSA for appropriate action, and this may result in denial of a candidate's flight training.
well guys,they don't check always your visa, because the TSA knows your application will be denied and they won't see your $$$, but as they have to do their job, they pick one or 2 unlucky guys from the lot...and they screw up your application with no question asked(if you are the unlucky guy from the lot)....
I hope this situation will change soon because it is an unfair lottery, (and I do not talk about pilots who went in the USA and who had to buy a ticket to go home the same day ...)
Last edited by dartagnan; 6th Nov 2006 at 18:54.
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Not true. F-1 is an education visa for 4 year degree programs. The K-1 is the spousal visa.
Blah Blah Blah
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TSA training date query
Maybe someone could help,
The TSA application process state the minimum time before you can train seems to be a month on the form and no earlier. Today I was given permission to initiate training and my actual starting date is the 4th December, but on the form, because it was returned due to the fact that further information was required meant I had to put the 15th December and no earlier, because it was the 15th November when I completed it for the 2nd time. This minimum time of a month.
Quote from the website:
"After a candidate receives approval to train, they must begin within 180 days".
Does that mean I can still start flying on the 4th, since I've been given permission it just has a different starting date on my application.
If anyone knows what I'm actually talking about please help...
The TSA application process state the minimum time before you can train seems to be a month on the form and no earlier. Today I was given permission to initiate training and my actual starting date is the 4th December, but on the form, because it was returned due to the fact that further information was required meant I had to put the 15th December and no earlier, because it was the 15th November when I completed it for the 2nd time. This minimum time of a month.
Quote from the website:
"After a candidate receives approval to train, they must begin within 180 days".
Does that mean I can still start flying on the 4th, since I've been given permission it just has a different starting date on my application.
If anyone knows what I'm actually talking about please help...