Training in the USA - Visa and TSA Requirements
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I would like to transfer to another school
I have M1 visa for flight training. If I contact my first school while I am still in my country ,and telling them that I would like to transfer to another school . Can the school cancel my Visa
. is it possible.or they Just say its ok and Transfer me to the new school.
my first school is in WA. & the new school in FL. it Is very far between WA & FL.that way I don't want to go to the first school then to the new.
(if I have opitns)can I Just contact them by phone!
thank you for your help.
Last edited by kNOWpilot; 22nd Jul 2006 at 16:46.
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Type Rating Visas
Saw this in depth thread and thought Id throw in my 10 cents.
I recently travelled to Denver, CO for a type rating. Of course, thought I needed a visa. I am a British Citizen. Got in touch with the US consulate in Dubai who explained to me that my course was VOCATIONAL and could not issue me with a visa, even if I wanted one. The consulate could only issue a visa if my course was a prolonged course of study, for example if I were to be doing initial flight training. The fact that I was just going accross for a couple of weeks to add a rating meant the need for a visa was waved.
Not being convinced I contacted the TSA, from whom I needed to get approval from anyway in order to train. They also explained that my course was vocational and that I could enter on the visa wavier program. At the same time I started my approval with the TSA for my course.
STILL not convinced, I contacted the Department of Homeland Security who also explained that my course was vocational and as a British Citizen I did not need a visa and could enter on the wavier program.
STILL not convinced I finally got in touch with the Customs and Border Patrol. I took the womans name who I spoke to and she quoted me the rules and regs out of her immigration book and the reference numbers I could quote to the immigration officer at JFK when I arrived in case I had any problem.
On departing the UAE I made sure I brought all correspondance from the departments I spoke to. I also had my TSA approval application which I could not complete until getting my fingerprints taken at Denver International Airport. I booked the appointment for the fingerprints before leaving the UAE. On arrival at JFK, the immigration officer asked me what Im doing. I said aircraft type training in Denver...and before I got a chance to finish I was admitted to the US for 3 months.
Finally, 3 days later after getting the fingerprints done I received my authorisation to train from the TSA and that was it.
I would just suggest to anybody unsure about their visa requirements to personally check with every authority possible, check, double check and tripple check. Type rating visas are a bit of a grey area in the US as nobody knows what type of course its classed as. When researching into my course, I got in touch with Flight Safety in LGA who told me that I would have to go accross on an aircrew visa. If I wasnt a member of an airline, I could not do a type rating in the US. However I found that this was untrue.
Don't know if this will help anyone but there u go
Cheers DB
I recently travelled to Denver, CO for a type rating. Of course, thought I needed a visa. I am a British Citizen. Got in touch with the US consulate in Dubai who explained to me that my course was VOCATIONAL and could not issue me with a visa, even if I wanted one. The consulate could only issue a visa if my course was a prolonged course of study, for example if I were to be doing initial flight training. The fact that I was just going accross for a couple of weeks to add a rating meant the need for a visa was waved.
Not being convinced I contacted the TSA, from whom I needed to get approval from anyway in order to train. They also explained that my course was vocational and that I could enter on the visa wavier program. At the same time I started my approval with the TSA for my course.
STILL not convinced, I contacted the Department of Homeland Security who also explained that my course was vocational and as a British Citizen I did not need a visa and could enter on the wavier program.
STILL not convinced I finally got in touch with the Customs and Border Patrol. I took the womans name who I spoke to and she quoted me the rules and regs out of her immigration book and the reference numbers I could quote to the immigration officer at JFK when I arrived in case I had any problem.
On departing the UAE I made sure I brought all correspondance from the departments I spoke to. I also had my TSA approval application which I could not complete until getting my fingerprints taken at Denver International Airport. I booked the appointment for the fingerprints before leaving the UAE. On arrival at JFK, the immigration officer asked me what Im doing. I said aircraft type training in Denver...and before I got a chance to finish I was admitted to the US for 3 months.
Finally, 3 days later after getting the fingerprints done I received my authorisation to train from the TSA and that was it.
I would just suggest to anybody unsure about their visa requirements to personally check with every authority possible, check, double check and tripple check. Type rating visas are a bit of a grey area in the US as nobody knows what type of course its classed as. When researching into my course, I got in touch with Flight Safety in LGA who told me that I would have to go accross on an aircrew visa. If I wasnt a member of an airline, I could not do a type rating in the US. However I found that this was untrue.
Don't know if this will help anyone but there u go
Cheers DB
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Desert Budgie,
Thanks for this very useful piece of information.
Was yours a self sponsored type rating or were you sent by your airline?
The two cases have different requirements, I believe.
Thanks
Thanks for this very useful piece of information.
Was yours a self sponsored type rating or were you sent by your airline?
The two cases have different requirements, I believe.
Thanks
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I did my type rating self sponsored at Flight Training International in Denver, CO. They also told me that as being a member of a wavier country I did not need a visa, however they kept me up to date as the rules are constantly changing.
Like I said in my previous post, Flight Safety told me flat out that if I was not going accross on an aircrew visa I could not train at their facility in the US. However, if I was to do the same course in Toronto I could. The Canadian requirements are slightly different, and said that I could hop on a plane yesterday and to my type with no probs at all.
All in all the way I did it worked for me, superb staff, good sim and saved 8000us rather than bothering with flight safety. A mate of mine also on a British passport did a CE-550 type in Orlando Simcom, and as far as I am aware, he attended his course along the same lines as myself. I think the biggest thing the US is bothered about is the TSA clearance. At the end of the day they are the absolute authority to whether or not you can train, and if they clear you its all good. If an FTO cannot offer you a visa like in my circumstances, bring all the goods with you like you would when showing up for a visa interview. Ie bank statements, TSA approval, accomodation, enrollment letter etc..etc so that if you get questionned on arrival, you have the evidence to back you up that you are a legit student.
Again, this info is just from personal experience, so check it all out yourself before making any decisions.
Cheers
DB
Like I said in my previous post, Flight Safety told me flat out that if I was not going accross on an aircrew visa I could not train at their facility in the US. However, if I was to do the same course in Toronto I could. The Canadian requirements are slightly different, and said that I could hop on a plane yesterday and to my type with no probs at all.
All in all the way I did it worked for me, superb staff, good sim and saved 8000us rather than bothering with flight safety. A mate of mine also on a British passport did a CE-550 type in Orlando Simcom, and as far as I am aware, he attended his course along the same lines as myself. I think the biggest thing the US is bothered about is the TSA clearance. At the end of the day they are the absolute authority to whether or not you can train, and if they clear you its all good. If an FTO cannot offer you a visa like in my circumstances, bring all the goods with you like you would when showing up for a visa interview. Ie bank statements, TSA approval, accomodation, enrollment letter etc..etc so that if you get questionned on arrival, you have the evidence to back you up that you are a legit student.
Again, this info is just from personal experience, so check it all out yourself before making any decisions.
Cheers
DB
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Hi DB,
Tried to reach the TSA Flight Student Program Help Desk today but they seemed too busy and I got an answering machine.
Their site sates:
[08/25/2005] Taking flight training without an appropriate visa could be a violation of your immigration status and could result in your arrest and removal from the United States; therefore, it is important that you have a visa that permits you to take flight training in the United States. If you do not possess the correct visa, or if you have questions pertaining to your visa status or the appropriate visas for flight training, please contact your local Bureau of Citizenship and Immigration Services at 1-800-375-5283 or at, U.S. Citizenship and Immigration Services or the State Department Consular Affairs Office for assistance. The AFSP will deny flight training requests from candidates who are present in the United States illegally or who do not have an appropriate visa for flight training.
You say in your previous message that you contacted several agencies. Do those phone calls include one to the guys you had to deal with when you went through the port of entry ? I mean, are they the Border Patrol or the U.S. Citizenship and Immigration Service ? Are they the same thing ? (Please pretend I asked this the right way
)
Thanks
Tried to reach the TSA Flight Student Program Help Desk today but they seemed too busy and I got an answering machine.
Their site sates:
[08/25/2005] Taking flight training without an appropriate visa could be a violation of your immigration status and could result in your arrest and removal from the United States; therefore, it is important that you have a visa that permits you to take flight training in the United States. If you do not possess the correct visa, or if you have questions pertaining to your visa status or the appropriate visas for flight training, please contact your local Bureau of Citizenship and Immigration Services at 1-800-375-5283 or at, U.S. Citizenship and Immigration Services or the State Department Consular Affairs Office for assistance. The AFSP will deny flight training requests from candidates who are present in the United States illegally or who do not have an appropriate visa for flight training.
You say in your previous message that you contacted several agencies. Do those phone calls include one to the guys you had to deal with when you went through the port of entry ? I mean, are they the Border Patrol or the U.S. Citizenship and Immigration Service ? Are they the same thing ? (Please pretend I asked this the right way
)Thanks
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Yes! Customs and border patrol are the immigration officers at the desks when you enter the US. Basically the flight school told me I didnt need a visa and told me to check with my US embassy, who told me I didnt and told me to contact the TSA, who told me I didnt and gave me the number for the Department of Homeland Security (or State), who told me I didnt and gave me the number of the Customs and Border Patrol who also told me I didnt need a visa.
I worked in entry clearance at the British Embassy in Dubai last year. One of the things I learned there is that under certain categories of study or travel, a visa is not required. We would get these folk pleading with us to give them a visa 'just in case' and we couldnt. We were not refusing these folk entry to the UK, the fact was they did not require a visa to go to the UK, and could just travel on their passport alone. Even if they were going to study. A vocational course for example we could not issue a student visa because there was no requirement for one. However, we would advise these students to travel with 6 months bank statements, invitation letter, accomodation confirmation, return ticket...etc to show the immigration officer in the UK on arrival. This was the same deal as with me going to the US for my course.
DB
I worked in entry clearance at the British Embassy in Dubai last year. One of the things I learned there is that under certain categories of study or travel, a visa is not required. We would get these folk pleading with us to give them a visa 'just in case' and we couldnt. We were not refusing these folk entry to the UK, the fact was they did not require a visa to go to the UK, and could just travel on their passport alone. Even if they were going to study. A vocational course for example we could not issue a student visa because there was no requirement for one. However, we would advise these students to travel with 6 months bank statements, invitation letter, accomodation confirmation, return ticket...etc to show the immigration officer in the UK on arrival. This was the same deal as with me going to the US for my course.
DB
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I have been denied by the TSA.
I have applied with Panam for the randhem training on the A320.(self sponsored).
Panam told me to come under a tourist visa,
not true, the TSA sent me an email requesting for an M1 visa. And this visa, I can not get it.
Since the begining, I got only not coherent stories from the TSA, DHS,and the school.
@desert budgie
who told you you do not need to be a crewmember for a type rating?.any text?
I have applied with Panam for the randhem training on the A320.(self sponsored).
Panam told me to come under a tourist visa,
not true, the TSA sent me an email requesting for an M1 visa. And this visa, I can not get it.
Since the begining, I got only not coherent stories from the TSA, DHS,and the school.
@desert budgie
who told you you do not need to be a crewmember for a type rating?.any text?
Last edited by dartagnan; 27th Jul 2006 at 15:25.
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People who have been denied training by the TSA, can send me info by PM,
please if you wish,send me phone number of agents you have contacted, TSA/DHS answers, your situation (pending, denied,...)
all info I can get, will be used against the TSA and the DHS for clarification.
(you can keep your anonymat.)
please if you wish,send me phone number of agents you have contacted, TSA/DHS answers, your situation (pending, denied,...)
all info I can get, will be used against the TSA and the DHS for clarification.
(you can keep your anonymat.)
Last edited by dartagnan; 27th Jul 2006 at 16:33.
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DB,
thank you.
your number provided has been sent to the USA.
I think I will reapply with the TSA, and ask them why I have been denied, once I have more info.
I keep you in touch !
kala 320,
please,check you PM, or explain us your story.I bet you have applied for the A320 or the 737 training . and they told you to come with a b2 visa or visa waiver, and bingo, at the custom, they told you to go home after 5 hours ,giving phone calls, etc... and no one has really understand why!!! ...and now you are stuck at home, and you ask yourself: why????
thank you.
your number provided has been sent to the USA.
I think I will reapply with the TSA, and ask them why I have been denied, once I have more info.
I keep you in touch !
kala 320,
please,check you PM, or explain us your story.I bet you have applied for the A320 or the 737 training . and they told you to come with a b2 visa or visa waiver, and bingo, at the custom, they told you to go home after 5 hours ,giving phone calls, etc... and no one has really understand why!!! ...and now you are stuck at home, and you ask yourself: why????
Last edited by dartagnan; 27th Jul 2006 at 21:38.
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Urgent
HELLO ,
I have M-1 Visa it issued in 16th of May 2006 & I did not travel to the United States Because of my father death ,My father died on the 14th of may ,so I delaid my flight till now .
My Question is onc I get to the USA Airport ,the customs will turn me back !! to my country?!? Because I was to late .
my Visa Will Expire in 16th of june 2007.
Can any one answer my Question.
**my flight will be within two Days.
I have M-1 Visa it issued in 16th of May 2006 & I did not travel to the United States Because of my father death ,My father died on the 14th of may ,so I delaid my flight till now .
My Question is onc I get to the USA Airport ,the customs will turn me back !! to my country?!? Because I was to late .
my Visa Will Expire in 16th of june 2007.
Can any one answer my Question.
**my flight will be within two Days.
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visa waiver scheme
Hi,
I am off to do a type rating in good ol' USA for 22 days ,can I enter the haven of democracy on the Visa Waiver scheme (you can for recurrent training) or do i need a M1 visa?Appreciate any info/links etc.Thanks
I am off to do a type rating in good ol' USA for 22 days ,can I enter the haven of democracy on the Visa Waiver scheme (you can for recurrent training) or do i need a M1 visa?Appreciate any info/links etc.Thanks
The Cooler King
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You are adding a rating so as far as I know you have to get an M1.
Welcome to the world of long queues and $100 fees for applying to make an application for a visa that you will have to pay another $100 for.
Then you will have to pay to register with the TSA, and that costs money too. And then you have to pay (at least, I did) a $30 fee to have your fingerprints taken at a police station close to the school you are training at.
Then there's the "special" sized photos that you have to pay for as "normal" passport photos are the wrong size. Then there's all the money you will fork out going to the embassy - oh and yes of course you have to purchase a DHL or Fedex envelope that they use to post the visa back to you if you get it and.........sigh!
I hope for your sake that it's the waiver but as I said at the start, you are adding a rating and that constitutes training and not just hour building on an existing rating.
Farrell
Welcome to the world of long queues and $100 fees for applying to make an application for a visa that you will have to pay another $100 for.
Then you will have to pay to register with the TSA, and that costs money too. And then you have to pay (at least, I did) a $30 fee to have your fingerprints taken at a police station close to the school you are training at.
Then there's the "special" sized photos that you have to pay for as "normal" passport photos are the wrong size. Then there's all the money you will fork out going to the embassy - oh and yes of course you have to purchase a DHL or Fedex envelope that they use to post the visa back to you if you get it and.........sigh!
I hope for your sake that it's the waiver but as I said at the start, you are adding a rating and that constitutes training and not just hour building on an existing rating.
Farrell
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I have been all through this state side, i had an J1 visa, right to work. But i couldnt train, i wasn't eligable for the waiver either.
If you are "Training" then you need an M1 if you are not as US Joint or sole citizen. The exceptions to this are if you are on holiday and you decide to take some flying lessons, then a "resonable" ammount would be acceptable, they never stipulated how many hours are resonable, i would say five or six. You dont need an M1 for hour building, you dont need an M1 for continued studdies either, i think this refers to if you have started a course and never finished it off in the one trip/visit. Each rating is classed as a seperate course, so how i under-stand it from how they explained it state-side if you are been taught then an M1 visa is required, if you are hour building or had a "one off" lesson then this would be waiver or tourist type visa.
If you are "Training" then you need an M1 if you are not as US Joint or sole citizen. The exceptions to this are if you are on holiday and you decide to take some flying lessons, then a "resonable" ammount would be acceptable, they never stipulated how many hours are resonable, i would say five or six. You dont need an M1 for hour building, you dont need an M1 for continued studdies either, i think this refers to if you have started a course and never finished it off in the one trip/visit. Each rating is classed as a seperate course, so how i under-stand it from how they explained it state-side if you are been taught then an M1 visa is required, if you are hour building or had a "one off" lesson then this would be waiver or tourist type visa.
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The ONLY definitive source of information is the TSA, if necessary via the US Embassy in your domicile country. That doesn't guarantee correct info, but you stand a chance of a fair hearing if you are given false (and attributable) information by US authorities. The TSA will laugh in your face if you turn up at the US Immigration Post saying, "My mate on Pprune said it would be OK".
You stand to lose a lot of money invested in courses if you are turned away on entry. Make sure your information is correct. I repeat, there is only one source you can trust and can quote in case of dispute.
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There seems to be a lot of confusion over travelling to the US with regard to an SSTR
A group of us have just finished a JAA turboprop type rating with FlightSafety in the US.
We had all the issues and concerns that have been voiced here, and we went round in circles for ages trying to get a visa. FlightSafety couldnt issue an M1 as they didnt have an approved JAA course (we were renting the simulator and brought our JAA instructors/examiners with us).
Our group, although asked questions at the airport both my Customs/INS and TSA did all get admitted, and all of us were on visa waivers.
The main issue is the TSA clearance, if you dont have this you simply wont be able to get in the sim.
As always - get your own situation clarified before travelling.
A group of us have just finished a JAA turboprop type rating with FlightSafety in the US.
We had all the issues and concerns that have been voiced here, and we went round in circles for ages trying to get a visa. FlightSafety couldnt issue an M1 as they didnt have an approved JAA course (we were renting the simulator and brought our JAA instructors/examiners with us).
Our group, although asked questions at the airport both my Customs/INS and TSA did all get admitted, and all of us were on visa waivers.
The main issue is the TSA clearance, if you dont have this you simply wont be able to get in the sim.
As always - get your own situation clarified before travelling.