easyJet Type Rating Scheme
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The transport requirement is probably a little harsh but if that is the sort of candidate out there then that is probably what easy would select at interview anyway.
So another way to look at this is that at least they are being upfront to avoid your possible disappointment. If no suitalble applicants received obviously these requirements will change.
I am just trying to bring a little sense to these posts rather than defending the recruitment policy. As this scheme involves a job at the end I think it is ridiculous to comapre it with the purchase of a type rating and no job such as that generously
offered by Astreus.
There is no goal to set up a flying school here. In fact they will not sell you a type rating. There is a genuine need for flight crews and as the supply is around it is sensible to take the best qualified candidates. What would you do if it were your airline?
Make the comparison with other airlines and I think you might find it is not that bad.
Once again good luck to those who apply and make way in other operators for those who dont.
So another way to look at this is that at least they are being upfront to avoid your possible disappointment. If no suitalble applicants received obviously these requirements will change.
I am just trying to bring a little sense to these posts rather than defending the recruitment policy. As this scheme involves a job at the end I think it is ridiculous to comapre it with the purchase of a type rating and no job such as that generously
offered by Astreus.There is no goal to set up a flying school here. In fact they will not sell you a type rating. There is a genuine need for flight crews and as the supply is around it is sensible to take the best qualified candidates. What would you do if it were your airline?
Make the comparison with other airlines and I think you might find it is not that bad.
Once again good luck to those who apply and make way in other operators for those who dont.
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Or it may attract ex-BWA ATP pilots still looking to get back in the air again such as myself. But could I be turned down for being OVER qualified with 2000 hours?????? That will really be taking the p*ss. Turned down for not having enough experience ( ie. a jet rating) then 6 months down the line, and not having flown once, being over qualified.
It seems to be a good scheme. I initially thought it was like the Ryanair scheme-pay for it yourself up front. Well I haven't got that sort of cash lying around nor have I rich parents to look after little Johnny.
After losing my job almost a year ago I am desperate to get back into the industry again. Whoever has been made redundant from a job they adore will know what I mean. Those who meander through life with the lucky spoon in their mouths will obviously not know. Can you imagine a fully qualified Airline Pilot with experience working in a cold and damp warehouse driving a forklift. Well thats what I do to pay the bills at the moment. Rather bleak isn't it. Yes I know there would be a reduced salary for 5 years but I would accept that.
Question---Doesn't every sponsored ab-initio cadet start on a reduced salary when they join their respective airline because of the training costs(whether part sponsored or fully sponsored).Well how different is the easyJet type rating sponsorship scheme except obviously the costs?
It seems to be a good scheme. I initially thought it was like the Ryanair scheme-pay for it yourself up front. Well I haven't got that sort of cash lying around nor have I rich parents to look after little Johnny.
After losing my job almost a year ago I am desperate to get back into the industry again. Whoever has been made redundant from a job they adore will know what I mean. Those who meander through life with the lucky spoon in their mouths will obviously not know. Can you imagine a fully qualified Airline Pilot with experience working in a cold and damp warehouse driving a forklift. Well thats what I do to pay the bills at the moment. Rather bleak isn't it. Yes I know there would be a reduced salary for 5 years but I would accept that.
Question---Doesn't every sponsored ab-initio cadet start on a reduced salary when they join their respective airline because of the training costs(whether part sponsored or fully sponsored).Well how different is the easyJet type rating sponsorship scheme except obviously the costs?
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I can not believe this crap, there is no form of sponsorship here. First of all, we the pilots, pay the training costs upfront then easyjet pays it back to us at the rate of £25,000 over 5 years. Looks o.k. on paper, BUT when you consider that as the sponsored pilot you lose £25,000 in wages over the 5 years this doesn't look so great suddenly. For the privledge of this great sponsorship you are also bonded for the 5 year period.
Now before I get shot down, I can accept that new pilots should in certain circumstances accept a reduced wage and a bonded period, but only when the company has paid for the training. When the pilot pays for the training there should be no reduction in wages.
Unfortuantly this kind of scheme has all come about because certain new pilots paid for their type ratings to get a foot up on other candidates. This means that the airlines thought 'well, if one pays why not ask the rest to' and here we are. I can understand how people in Honest Franks position are tempted to get back into aviation via this scheme and I couldn't honestly say that in his position I wouldn't do the same. It seems however that EZ are not interested in pilots who have experience like Frank who have over the 1500 hour mark, so what for pilots like Frank and I who don't qualify, does anyone think that EZ will employ us when they can 'sponsor' some one who will pay their own training expenses. I don't think so!!!
Now before I get shot down, I can accept that new pilots should in certain circumstances accept a reduced wage and a bonded period, but only when the company has paid for the training. When the pilot pays for the training there should be no reduction in wages.
Unfortuantly this kind of scheme has all come about because certain new pilots paid for their type ratings to get a foot up on other candidates. This means that the airlines thought 'well, if one pays why not ask the rest to' and here we are. I can understand how people in Honest Franks position are tempted to get back into aviation via this scheme and I couldn't honestly say that in his position I wouldn't do the same. It seems however that EZ are not interested in pilots who have experience like Frank who have over the 1500 hour mark, so what for pilots like Frank and I who don't qualify, does anyone think that EZ will employ us when they can 'sponsor' some one who will pay their own training expenses. I don't think so!!!
1) This is a type rating that comes with a job attached - v. important.
2) You require no money in the bank. The company will arrange a loan on favourable terms for you. Just sign here Sir.
3) You are given OVER AND ABOVE salary £5,000 a year extra to pay off the loan over 5 years. Thats £25,000 you get to pay off the loan.
4) You are bonded for 5 years whilst this pays itself off - where exactly are you planning to go in those 5 years? Which airline? Surely you'll want 1000 Command hours before you leave for pastures new? Which will take 5 years anyway more or less.
5) You are paid less. Well lets look at this. As soon as you hit 1,500 hrs i.e. within a couple of months you will be on a basic salary of £31,700 + £6,000 sector/duty pay. Anyone moaning about £38,000 a year in their first year of their first jet airline (probably)?
6) Joining with - say - a 1,000hrs means in 3 years time you would have 3,500hrs TT and qualify for a Command assesment. Say you pass and you now have £55,000 basic plus about £10,000 sector/duty pay. Plus 5% length of service bonus, plus any profit share and/or share options. And a 7% pension. And a 737 NG Command. Ooh, and there would be a couple of hundred pilots behind you in the last in first out redundancy queue.
Not *such* a rip off I think.
Pity they just don't take guys and type them and bond them like they used to though and its a *real* pity they require MPA time.
Hopefully they will drop that bit soon - surely their aren't THAT many guys out there with this and all the other bits and bobs needed to pass the interview/test/sim...?
Good luck whatever your position,
WWW
2) You require no money in the bank. The company will arrange a loan on favourable terms for you. Just sign here Sir.
3) You are given OVER AND ABOVE salary £5,000 a year extra to pay off the loan over 5 years. Thats £25,000 you get to pay off the loan.
4) You are bonded for 5 years whilst this pays itself off - where exactly are you planning to go in those 5 years? Which airline? Surely you'll want 1000 Command hours before you leave for pastures new? Which will take 5 years anyway more or less.
5) You are paid less. Well lets look at this. As soon as you hit 1,500 hrs i.e. within a couple of months you will be on a basic salary of £31,700 + £6,000 sector/duty pay. Anyone moaning about £38,000 a year in their first year of their first jet airline (probably)?
6) Joining with - say - a 1,000hrs means in 3 years time you would have 3,500hrs TT and qualify for a Command assesment. Say you pass and you now have £55,000 basic plus about £10,000 sector/duty pay. Plus 5% length of service bonus, plus any profit share and/or share options. And a 7% pension. And a 737 NG Command. Ooh, and there would be a couple of hundred pilots behind you in the last in first out redundancy queue.
Not *such* a rip off I think.
Pity they just don't take guys and type them and bond them like they used to though and its a *real* pity they require MPA time.
Hopefully they will drop that bit soon - surely their aren't THAT many guys out there with this and all the other bits and bobs needed to pass the interview/test/sim...?
Good luck whatever your position,
WWW
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WWW so far I have had great respect for your well informed, and thoughtful posts, but ........
'If it were a scheme to take people from flying school portakabins all the way to RHS NG Boeing I would and have said its a fair deal...'
this is a major step.
As part of the the scheme I would want them to spend a couple of years on turbo-props............. is this not why easy want MPA experience?
'If it were a scheme to take people from flying school portakabins all the way to RHS NG Boeing I would and have said its a fair deal...'
this is a major step.
As part of the the scheme I would want them to spend a couple of years on turbo-props............. is this not why easy want MPA experience?
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Hey guys, am I missing something here?
I’ve been looking at their website & this is how I read it.
They used to only take direct entrants with >1500 hours, with the exception of a few via the CTC ATP scheme
Now there are 4 categories of entrant:
>1500 hours, ATPL, type rated or non-type rated - Direct Entrant – gets the full SFO or Capt salary from the start
>500 <1500 hours, fATPL, non-type rated – Sponsored Type Rating – direct entry salary less £5,000 pa for 5 years then revert to direct entry salary
<500 hrs, fATPL, non-type rated – CTC ATP scheme – pay £6K towards training costs, 8 months deferred direct entry FO salary
0-few hours, no CPL – Sponsored Cadet Scheme – direct entry salary less £12,000 for 7 years
It seems to me that the original channels are still open, but now there is a route for everyone. The more experience you bring with you, the better your pay. That doesn’t seem unreasonable to me. Unfortunately, I’m at the bottom of the pile. But I accept that I have less to offer easy than a direct entrant! I also accept that it’s going to cost them a packet to train me.
The sponsored type rating scheme seems a good deal to me; you’re only paying for your own type rating if you break your own bond. And all this talk about it being an expensive type rating ‘because the going rate is £15K seems to miss the point: you look at what is included – it’s quite a lot more than a normal type rating I think. And do you normally get living expenses in a £15K rating? If you fail it, do you get most of your money back? I doubt it. You’re not bringing the same experience to the airline that a direct entrant is, so you are going to be paid less. You don’t need any money to pay for your rating & if you stick with easyJet they’ll pay off the bank’s money which was used to pay for it.
I’m very new to this industry & I accept I have a huge amount to learn. I have to say though that there are a lot of people about who seem to think that they are owed a living.
Seems different to me; the more you have to offer an employer, you more you can expect in return. Simple market forces.
Less than 1,500 hours = not a lot of experience and probably none on jets. More experience than I have, but then I don’t expect as much from an employer as someone who is a year or so into their career. Let’s face it, that’s all we are talking about.
They used to only take direct entrants with >1500 hours, with the exception of a few via the CTC ATP scheme
Now there are 4 categories of entrant:
>1500 hours, ATPL, type rated or non-type rated - Direct Entrant – gets the full SFO or Capt salary from the start
>500 <1500 hours, fATPL, non-type rated – Sponsored Type Rating – direct entry salary less £5,000 pa for 5 years then revert to direct entry salary
<500 hrs, fATPL, non-type rated – CTC ATP scheme – pay £6K towards training costs, 8 months deferred direct entry FO salary
0-few hours, no CPL – Sponsored Cadet Scheme – direct entry salary less £12,000 for 7 years
It seems to me that the original channels are still open, but now there is a route for everyone. The more experience you bring with you, the better your pay. That doesn’t seem unreasonable to me. Unfortunately, I’m at the bottom of the pile. But I accept that I have less to offer easy than a direct entrant! I also accept that it’s going to cost them a packet to train me.
The sponsored type rating scheme seems a good deal to me; you’re only paying for your own type rating if you break your own bond. And all this talk about it being an expensive type rating ‘because the going rate is £15K seems to miss the point: you look at what is included – it’s quite a lot more than a normal type rating I think. And do you normally get living expenses in a £15K rating? If you fail it, do you get most of your money back? I doubt it. You’re not bringing the same experience to the airline that a direct entrant is, so you are going to be paid less. You don’t need any money to pay for your rating & if you stick with easyJet they’ll pay off the bank’s money which was used to pay for it.
I’m very new to this industry & I accept I have a huge amount to learn. I have to say though that there are a lot of people about who seem to think that they are owed a living.
Seems different to me; the more you have to offer an employer, you more you can expect in return. Simple market forces.
Less than 1,500 hours = not a lot of experience and probably none on jets. More experience than I have, but then I don’t expect as much from an employer as someone who is a year or so into their career. Let’s face it, that’s all we are talking about.
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Market forces or Arthur Daley?
I've studied all this too, and the above analysis is correct, except, that it seems like people with >1500 hours, or >500 but logged through instructing and stuff, are less in favour, even though there are loads of them. Why? Well if you do the maths, it's obvious: at current pay scales they would cost more to employ than newbies brought in through this new idea of bonded fATPL entrants, and ab initio cadets.
Personally I don't care about the money, it's the fast disappearing principles of fairness, merit and paying-your-dues (starting at the bottom) that are getting me worked up.
Should employers not be obliged - by an independent professional body ('union') or by corrective market forces (lower pay for all) - to hire the best / most experienced people available, or is it a case of low-cost pilots for a low-cost airline?
Personally I don't care about the money, it's the fast disappearing principles of fairness, merit and paying-your-dues (starting at the bottom) that are getting me worked up.
Should employers not be obliged - by an independent professional body ('union') or by corrective market forces (lower pay for all) - to hire the best / most experienced people available, or is it a case of low-cost pilots for a low-cost airline?
Last edited by carb; 30th Nov 2002 at 20:48.
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Yep, instructors, and, all the rest of our esteemed colleagues who've been doing a sterling job in light aircraft since gaining a CPL/fATPL. I expect they know less about flying jets than people with jet or turboprop multi-crew experience but they know considerably more than people with <500 hours, have proven themselves, and also put something back into aviation. This group of deserving and well qualified wannabes are becoming the forgotten pilots. New hires by EasyJet would now seem to be either rocketing past on a fast-track up from nowhere -- the wannabes who have neverbeen -- or parachuting in from another airline, often infact from another country.
If it was because anyone who's gained, say, a thousand hours in non-airline flying will invariably be scarred for life by the experience and can only therafter make a crap airline pilot, then fair enough, but I don't believe that is necessarily the case. Is it?
If it was because anyone who's gained, say, a thousand hours in non-airline flying will invariably be scarred for life by the experience and can only therafter make a crap airline pilot, then fair enough, but I don't believe that is necessarily the case. Is it?
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Well said carb,
I'm a Ab-initio then instructer wanabee.
and I also feel left out in this easyjet type rating sponsership. you would think that having 1000TT 700multi instructing and having all sorts of extra extra ratings and licenses and all the rest would help... but NO now I need MPA experiance
I can see that fellow wannabes with zero experiance are going to be passing people like me that started at the bottem of the ladder.
I DO NOT HAVE ANYTHING AGAINST zero houred guys geting the job.... becouse I was once the new kid with the shiny new blue book.
I just think its a shame that easyjet and the rest of the airlines are leting people with some more experiance not get a chance.
I'm a Ab-initio then instructer wanabee.
and I also feel left out in this easyjet type rating sponsership. you would think that having 1000TT 700multi instructing and having all sorts of extra extra ratings and licenses and all the rest would help... but NO now I need MPA experiance
I can see that fellow wannabes with zero experiance are going to be passing people like me that started at the bottem of the ladder.
I DO NOT HAVE ANYTHING AGAINST zero houred guys geting the job.... becouse I was once the new kid with the shiny new blue book.
I just think its a shame that easyjet and the rest of the airlines are leting people with some more experiance not get a chance.
Muppet - a few years on turboprops - or indeed an entire career - is of course ideal experience.
It seems that the traditional route to the jet airline job is slowly becoming less common.
A lot of regional flying is no longer done on props. The CRJ and EMB145 and the rising use of 737's on domestic routes are to blame.
WWW
It seems that the traditional route to the jet airline job is slowly becoming less common.
A lot of regional flying is no longer done on props. The CRJ and EMB145 and the rising use of 737's on domestic routes are to blame.
WWW
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Anyone that applies for or even considers this lastest grounding of our profession into the dirt is a fool.
It is at times like this that I wish that we had a union, and no not that bunch of wimps in BALPA.
Would I have considered Easy previously, Yes - Would I consider Easy now, would I f#%k.!!!
I'm sorry but I just don't think that level of vitriol is justified.
Its a bond by other means. Don't forget the £5,000 a year in your pay packet to pay off the bank. Don't forget the reduced remuneration is still better than in some other airlines.
WWW
Its a bond by other means. Don't forget the £5,000 a year in your pay packet to pay off the bank. Don't forget the reduced remuneration is still better than in some other airlines.
WWW
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Dimbleby
I am sure easyJet will be devistated to hear of your rejection.
Just a reminder, there will still be direct entry positions in order to meet the expansion of the airline. If you dont want to take a short cut to the RHS of a medium jet by all means continue with what you are doing and don't apply for this scheme.
Instructors
I am not suggesting you are not great pilots but your expectations are beyond what the current employment market will provide. Start thinking about taking the next step. Air taxi, turboprop/multicrew. Just because a few people have been lucky in the past does not mean that the industry owes you a living or a fast track airline career. Take a look at the US, Canada, Australia etc. and see what it takes to get your butt into that seat. You will find you are no where near the levels of experience these guys have before landing their first job.
What an opportunity, a guarenteed job on a slightly reduced salary with the chance to fly both boeing and airbus at some stage all for the price of a postage stamp.
For those who do apply good luck and see you on the line soon.
I am sure easyJet will be devistated to hear of your rejection.
Just a reminder, there will still be direct entry positions in order to meet the expansion of the airline. If you dont want to take a short cut to the RHS of a medium jet by all means continue with what you are doing and don't apply for this scheme.
Instructors
I am not suggesting you are not great pilots but your expectations are beyond what the current employment market will provide. Start thinking about taking the next step. Air taxi, turboprop/multicrew. Just because a few people have been lucky in the past does not mean that the industry owes you a living or a fast track airline career. Take a look at the US, Canada, Australia etc. and see what it takes to get your butt into that seat. You will find you are no where near the levels of experience these guys have before landing their first job.
What an opportunity, a guarenteed job on a slightly reduced salary with the chance to fly both boeing and airbus at some stage all for the price of a postage stamp.
For those who do apply good luck and see you on the line soon.
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"Beyond the current employment market"... huh? How come there's a need to create new pilots through sponsorships and take them with lower hours via CTC, then? If I'm lucky I'll happily sign up for a fast-track entry myself, but that doesn't stop me thinking it's bizarre for airlines to recruit people with loads of experience and people with none, but nobody in between. Is there some logic, or is it just an oversight that needs sorting?
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Call me a fool but I've applied. If I have too much experience for this scheme, too bad, easyJet have missed out again.
All those out there whinging, please don't apply. It will put my application higher up the pile- hopefully the only one on the pile. So sit there and whine whilst my name hopefully gets put forward. I'm not missing the boat this time.
Perhaps the industry may pick up next year for someone with my experience but I do not want to wait and find out.
All those out there whinging, please don't apply. It will put my application higher up the pile- hopefully the only one on the pile. So sit there and whine whilst my name hopefully gets put forward. I'm not missing the boat this time.
Perhaps the industry may pick up next year for someone with my experience but I do not want to wait and find out.
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Carb
The current employment market I was refering to does not include cadets that will fly the line in 2005.
I am only trying to give a reality check here. You can apply to emirates if you like but they are not interested in pilots who do not fit their current demographic profile which is usually dictated by the prevailing market conditions and easyjet are the same.
Anyone can apply but easyjet is telling you upfront that the profile they are after include multicrew experience with 500-1500 hours. Why waste everybodies time? If they do not meet the target with those requirements they will no doubt change them.
Your time might be better spent applying to companies who are looking for pilots with your experience.
Take it easy
The current employment market I was refering to does not include cadets that will fly the line in 2005.
I am only trying to give a reality check here. You can apply to emirates if you like but they are not interested in pilots who do not fit their current demographic profile which is usually dictated by the prevailing market conditions and easyjet are the same.
Anyone can apply but easyjet is telling you upfront that the profile they are after include multicrew experience with 500-1500 hours. Why waste everybodies time? If they do not meet the target with those requirements they will no doubt change them.
Your time might be better spent applying to companies who are looking for pilots with your experience.
Take it easy
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OK cool - so EasyJet will recruit a wider range of people in 2004/05, all going well?
I'm not currently one of these people myself, I'm only at PPL/100hrs stage, but if I'm not lucky enough to get a sponsorship, I'd like to think other routes are available for those keen enough. Would also like to think the outstanding instructors I've flown with aren't being left out, as they seem to be, and I'm not comfortable with that.
I'm not currently one of these people myself, I'm only at PPL/100hrs stage, but if I'm not lucky enough to get a sponsorship, I'd like to think other routes are available for those keen enough. Would also like to think the outstanding instructors I've flown with aren't being left out, as they seem to be, and I'm not comfortable with that.
Having got the necessary 500 to 1500 hrs multi crew time on top of my current experience to qualify for the EZY TRCourse. I hope I dont get into a situation requiring me to stump up another 23K to further my career. Maybe I misread the website though.
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There is no need to stump up anything.
Sucessful applicants will get a loan that they are responsible for but that easyjet pays for. Its just a bond that is guarenteed by a bank. If you do have £23000 I think you are able to guarentee yourself though.
Reread it, its not really that bad. In comparison ryanair require a type rating at the moment through an approved TRTO and that will be £15000 of your own money.
The idea is a job that pays for your type rating but gives you the incentive to stay around.
NG
Sucessful applicants will get a loan that they are responsible for but that easyjet pays for. Its just a bond that is guarenteed by a bank. If you do have £23000 I think you are able to guarentee yourself though.
Reread it, its not really that bad. In comparison ryanair require a type rating at the moment through an approved TRTO and that will be £15000 of your own money.
The idea is a job that pays for your type rating but gives you the incentive to stay around.
NG