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CAE easyJet MPL 2020

Old 28th Apr 2020, 17:40
  #161 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Feb 2020
Location: London
Posts: 15
In the same boat as many of you. I was supposed to begin training on the easyjet MPL on 14th of April, but was told at the end of March that obviously this would be 'postponed' and a new start date would be confirmed in the next 'few weeks'. I'm not hopeful to be honest, when you step back and look at the wider situation you really do have to be realistic.

All has gone quiet since then, and CAE are extremely slow at responding to emails, as you'd expect at the minute (especially when you are asking the tricky questions). It's just a matter of waiting for now, at least until there are some firm plans for Europe starting to get back onto it's feet. Beyond that point will have its own challenges, so it's by no means a given that even if the course goes ahead that it wouldn't get pulled at some point during training - that is what worries me the most if I'm honest. CAE and easyJet will need to be very upfront with the terms and conditions surrounding this, because there is no way I'll be signing up to something that has a high chance of being pulled.

I agree with a few of the other comments above, we all know that everyone loves to voice their opinion on the industry, but just spouting constant 'negative spam' is counterproductive. No one is asking for sunshine and rainbows, but FACTS regarding CAE and/or easyJet is what this thread is about. For the good of everyone who is trying to use this thread for sharing information on this topic, we should keep it to just that. Finding good info is difficult at the best of times, but with all the extra 'crap' it's even more of a needle in a haystack than it needs to be.
PilotMatt2020 is offline  
Old 28th Apr 2020, 19:00
  #162 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Nov 2002
Location: United States
Posts: 1,025
@pilotmatt2020

Mate I gave you all the facts you need.

maybe you want to ignore the data and overwhelming evidence, not good.

for the avoidance of doubt

1. I have some skin in the orange machine.
2. Do not, do not. give any money to anyone for pilot training for the foreseeable,
im talking 2 - 3 years.
3. I can easily foresee 20% redundancies across the industry, see BA announcement this evening.

if after all this you still want to waste your money, my offer to call
you every day and stroke your ego stands . Just wire me the cash and we can talk.
Nil further is offline  
Old 28th Apr 2020, 20:03
  #163 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Feb 2016
Location: UK
Posts: 10
Just another 2c from the industry..

If you are thinking about starting flying training at any point in the next 2-3 years then donít. If you are in groundschool I would highly recommend taking the £5k hit and leaving. This industry is about to be decimated. There will be mass redundancies meaning a flooded job market. I have flown with many Captains who graduated flight school in 2008 and then spent 2 years searching for an initial job.

This situation is much, much worse. In 2008 the banks pissed a lot of money away and the economy got hit fairly hard. But life went on, people still went to work and it recovered. This is on a different scale. If, and when restrictions are (slowly) lifted, the absolute last thing to go will be international air travel. And even if thatís allowed it could be very well followed with 2 weeks quarantine for any foreigners landing. Thatís the end of the holiday market. Cadets could be facing waits of several years for the job market to recover. Do not indebt yourself and your family for this, it is not worth it. No one has any idea what is going to happen past next week, there is no exit plan, there could be a second wave. Life may not return to normal ever again.

There was some Ryanair FO on instagram talking about how it could be a good time to start training as in 18 months they will be hiring again. Do not listen to people like this. Most insta-pilots are responsible for 95% of the material online and they make up a tiny percentage of the workforce and they are not seen favourably from within.

Also itís a pretty safe bet to ignore anything L3 or CAE tell you, they will lie to your face in order to get you to sign the line and pay them 6-figures. The sales reps work on commission and will say anything for their cut. Asking CAE if you should start training is like asking turkeys to vote for Christmas...

The whole airline industry pretty much relies on the publicís disposable income, in any recession holidays and travel are one of the first things to go.
You are all in fortuitous positions not being in the industry. For the time being, keep it that way.

Also so donít think (as I did) that being an MPL will offer you any form of protection, the latest MPL course who joined the company earlier this year have had their contracts terminated and told to PFO.

Think about it.

Last edited by skyblue12; 29th Apr 2020 at 15:49.
skyblue12 is offline  
Old 28th Apr 2020, 20:29
  #164 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Apr 2019
Location: Barcelona
Posts: 27
Icelandair just shed 2000 jobs .... i guess this is the start...

donít waste all that money guys its a lot !
Buenas is offline  
Old 28th Apr 2020, 23:27
  #165 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: california
Age: 62
Posts: 319
Originally Posted by PilotMatt2020 View Post

I agree with a few of the other comments above, we all know that everyone loves to voice their opinion on the industry, but just spouting constant 'negative spam' is counterproductive. No one is asking for sunshine and rainbows, but FACTS regarding CAE and/or easyJet is what this thread is about. For the good of everyone who is trying to use this thread for sharing information on this topic, we should keep it to just that. Finding good info is difficult at the best of times, but with all the extra 'crap' it's even more of a needle in a haystack than it needs to be.
I feel for you. It's the worst situation that has ever occurred in Airline history. There are literally thousands of Pilots now, worldwide, out of work. Many experienced Pilots don't know how they'll feed their Children in the coming years and I do mean that literally. The good info which you're looking for doesn't exist. I'm extremely sorry for that. I'm sorry for all of my colleagues who are fearful right now.

I
polax52 is offline  
Old 29th Apr 2020, 00:20
  #166 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: Wandsworth
Posts: 164
Originally Posted by PilotMatt2020 View Post
I agree with a few of the other comments above, we all know that everyone loves to voice their opinion on the industry, but just spouting constant 'negative spam' is counterproductive. No one is asking for sunshine and rainbows, but FACTS regarding CAE and/or easyJet is what this thread is about. For the good of everyone who is trying to use this thread for sharing information on this topic, we should keep it to just that. Finding good info is difficult at the best of times, but with all the extra 'crap' it's even more of a needle in a haystack than it needs to be.
Please stop dismissing the reality, we work in this part of the industry, I have colleagues in airlines who are in absolute pieces trying to work out how they'll stop the bailiffs coming in on their training debt and to provide for their family, one even works for a flag carrier, another for EasyJet and to see us dismissed as 'negative spam' is frankly insulting to these individuals. If you need evidence of this then I'm sure many of us, myself included will be able to provide you with it via DM.

You ask for real examples. As I said earlier in the thread, search on the terms and endearment forum for Non TR EasyJet Recruitment, there you will see posts from 'Larki' who's son on CAE EasyJet MPL has had his contract terminated as a result of Covid 19 by EasyJet during the Type Rating phase. If you believe that it's negative spam then send a message the individual. You said recently that you want the 'relevent pieces of information' and guarantees, if the above isn't enough to show you that it isn't guaranteed then I'm not sure what will, FlyBe went under with MPL cadets having started only months before, many of us knew FlyBe were in trouble but the courses still rolled on, Flybe MPL trainees/graduates have posted in the last few weeks on this forum about their woes and are potentially facing further cost to convert their MPL training to ATPL.
Unless EasyJet is paying or securing finance for your training they hold almost no risk to letting you continue training which you are paying for personally because they will be able to terminate contracts (as shown in an example above) if there is deemed any threat to the going concern of the business, they won't even blink an eye in exercising these rights in your training contract as all contracts have been passed through the legal team who have ensured CAE/EasyJet can call the shots whilst costing them almost nothing. At the same time they can hire you if it turns out there is no problem as has been the case until now.
As such, you carry the financial burden, and the risk! Does this sound unfair? Of course, and that's why many of us are so vocal about how bad the industry has got, Aer Lingus on the other hand paid for their recent new pilots to train to completion in 2020 and now the industry has gone wrong, Aer Lingus carries the financial burden and risk, those pilots though without any flying to do are reasonably relaxed with no debts compared to EasyJet peers, some of which are 100k in debt.

The facts of those employed are today that nearly all of EasyJet's current pilots are furloughed or have taken serious paycuts, anyone in the training system has stopped training and is at risk on termination, a lot of this is on a master thread in PPRuNe. Nobody knows when we will be allowed out to socialise again, let-alone go flying across the world. Pilot George's blog which is searchable online, who probably wrote the best and honest training blog that has ever existed spells out the current situation well and the horrifying financial implications it may have if unable to pay training debts. It also mentions the exact same situations of some MPL contracts being revoked at the end of training.

I appreciate this might be a lifelong dream for you as it is for many and that the reality is very hard to swallow, but please, none of us get any 'kick' out of writing what is happening, it would take a rather sick individual to do so, we'd much rather write how absolutely booming it is and how all of us are getting pay rises and promotions. But at the moment many of us get the feeling you and others are seeking positive answers or more-so 'confirmation bias' to assure yourself that you should start training, having spent time writing this out for your benefit I urge you to take a more balanced view. All of us want re-assurement, but in your position, you have nothing to lose by delaying training.

This will get better in years to come, but now is not the time to be pursuing that dream you're imagining, it doesn't exist for now.

Good luck.
planesandthings is offline  
Old 29th Apr 2020, 07:02
  #167 (permalink)  

de minimus non curat lex
 
Join Date: Feb 2001
Location: sunny troon
Posts: 1,141
Originally Posted by PilotMatt2020 View Post
Maybe I should rephrase that to 'if it actually goes ahead'. Which like you say, with the current situation, I am sceptical of anyway if I am honest..
PM2020
You knew in March that the writing was on the wall, and you, with your aviation background, even more aware than others with a course placement that a devastating tsunami alert had been sounded.

You were smelling the coffee then......your olfactory organ has since become impaired...

Stick with the day job if that aviation option still exists.
parkfell is offline  
Old 29th Apr 2020, 12:04
  #168 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jun 2019
Location: Redditch
Posts: 15
MPL Update

Just as an update I have just received the following letter from Easyjet. I passed stage 3 in Feb so was yet to get a start date.


Firstly I hope you and your loved ones are all safe and well. I trust that you are finding ways to make good use of your time whilst your training has been suspended.

We can all see the scale and impact this virus is having on every part of our society and our economy. The travel industry has in particular been hit badly and it may take a long time to fully recover, even after restrictions are lifted. I am quite sure that you personally are extremely worried about what this means for your future as a pilot. You will no doubt have seen that easyJet has grounded its entire fleet, and most of our employees are furloughed or on extended leave. We have been very focused on preserving cash in order to be able to ride out a prolonged grounding. As part of these cash preservation measures we have completely frozen all recruitment across the business.

I am writing to you following your successful selection to join the Generation easyJet Pilot Training Programme (GePTP). Unfortunately, as a result of the impact of the pandemic, we have had to take the difficult decision to suspend the GePTP programme which means that your progression will be stopped at this time. CAE have been made aware of this decision, and they will be in touch with you directly about your options now which will include transferring you onto a CAE ATPL programme. If you have paid a deposit to CAE in respect of the GePTP programme, CAE will refund this to you

I know this will be a very difficult time for you due to the uncertainty that lies ahead and I am sorry we cannot proceed as planned. However I can confirm that your easyJet selection results will still stand for the next 12 months while we navigate through this difficult period so, when we start hiring again, you will be amongst the first to be selected. Iím afraid I canít tell you when that might be yet as it will depend on how quickly the world recovers from this event.

Whilst I am absolutely certain that airlines will recover, as air travel is so important in our societies, it is also clear that the recovery process is going to take some time. This means that the career that you have chosen will still be there for you Ė but it may take some time before you are in a flight deck of a commercial airliner. My advice to you would be firstly, remain optimistic and secondly, once flying commences and opportunities arise anywhere, go for them. Donít sit back and wait for your dream flying job to come to you.

In the meantime stay safe, keep your enthusiasm for flying and at the earliest opportunity try and get in the air!
Richard Kenneth Reed is offline  
Old 29th Apr 2020, 14:31
  #169 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: Wandsworth
Posts: 164
Thanks Richard for sharing this with us, it is good to see EasyJet making a quicker move than we perhaps expected to be upfront about this.

However, picking out some of what has been mentioned.

Originally Posted by Richard Kenneth Reed View Post
CAE have been made aware of this decision, and they will be in touch with you directly about your options now which will include transferring you onto a CAE ATPL programme.-----I know this will be a very difficult time for you due to the uncertainty that lies ahead and I am sorry we cannot proceed as planned. However I can confirm that your easyJet selection results will still stand for the next 12 months while we navigate through this difficult period so, when we start hiring again, you will be amongst the first to be selected.
Anyone considering to transfer to the CAE ATPL programme as some sort of alternative/next best thing after the UKs largest airline has stopped recruiting for an indefinite period is sorely mistaken and it's disappointing that they are happy to sell people down this path currently whilst thousands of pilots are set to lose jobs, but again we must view flight training as business not a charity that of course will sell their product even if there are no jobs to graduate in to as CAE stand to lose serious levels of revenue also and sadly staff too. I seriously hope nobody with a clear head reading that would even contemplate doing an untagged course until at least Q4 2020 when we have a clearer idea of this crisis, unless you've recently won the lottery.

As for the selection results, Gatwick Airport, Norwegian and IATA alike are suggesting at the earliest it will be Q1 2022 before any significant amount of normality might be expected. The fact that results will stand for just 12 months is likely just lip service and in reality means the process will be re-started from scratch whenever the magic time comes to actually recruit new pilots which given those that will lose their jobs and those in training currently, could be a good few years. Time to focus on the other career methinks, and come back to all this when the bloodbath is over. But thanks for sharing.
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Old 29th Apr 2020, 14:40
  #170 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jun 2019
Location: Redditch
Posts: 15
No problem - knowledge is power in these types of situations so best to share when possible. When I get the call from CAE I will try and not sound sarcastic when I tell them it's probably not in my best interest to pay more for an ATPL with less job prospects at the end than the MPL. I think I will go do my PPL now - even if in 12 months Easyjet decide to reopen recruitment having a PPL won't do me any harm.
Richard Kenneth Reed is offline  
Old 29th Apr 2020, 14:59
  #171 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Aug 2016
Location: Europe
Posts: 221
Originally Posted by Richard Kenneth Reed View Post
No problem - knowledge is power in these types of situations so best to share when possible. When I get the call from CAE I will try and not sound sarcastic when I tell them it's probably not in my best interest to pay more for an ATPL with less job prospects at the end than the MPL. I think I will go do my PPL now - even if in 12 months Easyjet decide to reopen recruitment having a PPL won't do me any harm.
Good strategy. Even if no tagged MPL scheme comes up, going modular step by step and with a reputable school will give you the same ticket and the same skills in the end. Moreover, it's certainly better to have control over your training timeline and expenses in these uncertain times.
PilotLZ is offline  
Old 29th Apr 2020, 15:07
  #172 (permalink)  

de minimus non curat lex
 
Join Date: Feb 2001
Location: sunny troon
Posts: 1,141
Originally Posted by Richard Kenneth Reed View Post
No problem - knowledge is power in these types of situations so best to share when possible. When I get the call from CAE I will try and not sound sarcastic when I tell them it's probably not in my best interest to pay more for an ATPL with less job prospects at the end than the MPL. I think I will go do my PPL now - even if in 12 months Easyjet decide to reopen recruitment having a PPL won't do me any harm.
Doing a PPL will keep the interest in flying, and if in two to three years time, there are signs of green shoots, then you have begun down the modular route.

Read skyblue12 & others postings about the reality of the job to get a feel for what is in store.

Flying the Loganair Otters is probably the best commercial job going.

The chances of reopening the EZY scheme in 12 months is non existent. There is more chance that Elvis is on the moon.

parkfell is offline  
Old 29th Apr 2020, 16:55
  #173 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: Wandsworth
Posts: 164
Originally Posted by Richard Kenneth Reed View Post
I think I will go do my PPL now - even if in 12 months Easyjet decide to reopen recruitment having a PPL won't do me any harm.
Fantastic idea and will put you at no disadvantage, especially for a few years whilst banks will refuse to loan for people taking integrated courses, this may be a really good step to take so that you continue working whilst continuing to build skills skills. EasyJet had been taking cadets from modular backgrounds more readily recently, to the displeasure of a few and ultimately no matter if you spend 130,000 or 55,000 you end up with exactly the same blue licence book that says you're deemed suitable to operate aeroplanes.

Right now regardless of the route taken, those just graduating from the shiniest school to the smallest are finding that they're all in the same boat with getting a job. Their only differences being how much they paid.
planesandthings is offline  
Old 29th Apr 2020, 19:45
  #174 (permalink)  
kpd
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: galway ireland
Posts: 112
Easyjet MPL - pilot george

not CAE but L3 but still an Easyjet MPL graduate and still with major debt- should be required reading for anyone thinking of any MPL training now!

https://www.pilotgeorge.co.uk/blog/p...m-coronavirus/
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Old 29th Apr 2020, 21:39
  #175 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: Wandsworth
Posts: 164
Originally Posted by kpd View Post
not CAE but L3 but still an Easyjet MPL graduate and still with major debt- should be required reading for anyone thinking of any MPL training now!

https://www.pilotgeorge.co.uk/blog/p...m-coronavirus/
To be correct on what his blog states, George was a Whitetail ATPL cadet who then got a job with EasyJet after graduation. I believe looking at PilotGeorge on facebook, he is furloughed.

By far the best blog written and very honest. Wishing you all the best along with the many others if you're reading this George.
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Old 30th Apr 2020, 02:59
  #176 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: London
Posts: 16
I got the same letter as Kenneth above, was due to start my course this month. Fortunately I hadnít quit my current job as I saw the writing on the wall.

Nevertheless, was pretty disheartening as long time wannabe (with more applications under my belt than I care to remember). Who knows if/when another opportunity like this will crop up.

Anybody know what happened to those already on/part way through the course? Feel bad for all those in a difficult position right now.

Nobody knows when things will be better. Lots of people have lots of views on recovery time and impact, but all of it is pure conjecture. Once a vaccine is developed the world will change again....... but how fast and how far...... we will see.

Flys4Funs is offline  
Old 30th Apr 2020, 11:01
  #177 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: Wandsworth
Posts: 164
Originally Posted by Flys4Funs View Post
Anybody know what happened to those already on/part way through the course? Feel bad for all those in a difficult position right now.
Anyone mid-way through the course in Europe have had to stop temporarily anyway as flying schools are mostly closed due to government restrictions.
Those at the end of their training have had any offer of a job rescinded by EasyJet and effectively told they'll go into a pool indefinitely, I believe it's down to the student to pay to remain current (unless corrected). Of course one of the disadvantages all along with the MPL was the difficulty to transfer it or get a job flying something small single pilot which the ATPL graduates could can do. All of this stress whilst for some, the repayments for the courses loom. Many of the posts above explain further.
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Old 30th Apr 2020, 13:54
  #178 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Aug 2019
Location: Crawley
Posts: 5
Originally Posted by Flys4Funs View Post
Anybody know what happened to those already on/part way through the course? Feel bad for all those in a difficult position right now.
I understand that EasyJet MPLs currently in the Ground School phase of training havenít received any communication regarding the future of their course yet. Depending on school, some are completing a very limited amount of online classroom based training.

If anyone has anymore information on those currently part way through their training Iíd be interested to hear.
WarrenFlight is offline  
Old 3rd May 2020, 23:25
  #179 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: May 2020
Location: London
Posts: 1
Current easyJet MPL student

I am currently an EasyJet MPL student, having just completed ground school. I can confirm that we have not had any news from easyJet as of yet. We have been told we will receive an update shortly.

In addition to courses that were due to start being cancelled, some who have just started have also been cancelled. Things are not looking hopeful.

Itís incredibly frustrating, I have worked for 10years to save money for training for my dream job, in addition to giving up my career, it now feels so far away. I agree with comments above, if we do get the bad news that the MPL course is being pulled, I donít think I will pay more money to convert to an ATPL course. There just isnít any point given the massive number of surplus pilots out there. Unfortunately Iíve got to be realistic.

If I were to continue my training it most likely be down the modular route. I am in the fortunate position that I havenít paid for any of the flying as of yet so can get out of this without having incurred too much damage, unfortunately some are not as fortunate.
Livethedream83 is offline  
Old 4th May 2020, 08:48
  #180 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Aug 2019
Location: Crawley
Posts: 5
Originally Posted by Livethedream83 View Post
In addition to courses that were due to start being cancelled, some who have just started have also been cancelled. Things are not looking hopeful.
I hadnít heard about courses that had already started being cancelled. Do you know if they were the new style Generation EasyJet courses being run in Oxford?

Worrying times for all concerned. Good luck with your training & donít lose faith.
WarrenFlight is offline  

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