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CAE easyJet MPL 2020

Old 22nd Sep 2020, 08:09
  #241 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jun 2020
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The whole thing is setup so you have to offer a guarantor. Parents house or your own house if you have equity. I wasn't aware the flight schools had returned to allowing you to hold the debt like a personal loan.
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Old 22nd Sep 2020, 09:12
  #242 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Feb 2020
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Same mistakes are always committed... GFC mortgages ... they were given to people that barely had any income... 2018-2019 was the top of the wave... they just wanted more and more cogs in the machine
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Old 22nd Sep 2020, 10:29
  #243 (permalink)  
 
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Surprised the FCA haven’t got involved like HMRC did with the ‘flexicrew’ B.S. Where a certain school pitched that your £12k a year bond repayment was ‘tax free wages’

Last edited by FlyingGreek; 22nd Sep 2020 at 12:10.
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Old 22nd Sep 2020, 12:49
  #244 (permalink)  

de minimus non curat lex
 
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TerryCherry

Clearly if your parents act as your guarantor then their assets are in jeopardy as well. Probably equivalent as joint and several liability.

I don’t understand how 1500 hours flying experience is relevant?

Assuming you are on line (or were) as a FO in the RHS (MPL?) you are in the same boat as a CPL/IR FO in the RHS.

If you return to flying on the same type, the Operator will have a simulator training program prior to the LPC/OPC followed by sufficient line training.

A new type will require a standard issue Type Rating Course etc.
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Old 23rd Sep 2020, 16:04
  #245 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jun 2020
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Looks like easyjet making no redundancies. Part time working. I think this means first officer will be on 25k max on new contract. They will barely have any flights each over the winter. Not good for safety. Very nice of those who were safe anyway to give up the money to keep other pilots in jobs though.
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Old 24th Sep 2020, 10:06
  #246 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by TerryCherry View Post
They will barely have any flights each over the winter. Not good for safety.
But probably still a long way better than having no flights whatsoever for 2 years. This solution was a wise one in terms of training and readiness for expanding the schedule as soon as the circumstances allow to do this on a cash-positive basis. They will have current pilots who haven't had any major gaps in flying and there won't be any bottlenecks in the training system, like I envision for some other companies.
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Old 24th Sep 2020, 10:32
  #247 (permalink)  

de minimus non curat lex
 
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I understand that there has been a significant deterioration in EZY demand, and CR cannot now be ruled out.
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Old 24th Sep 2020, 14:18
  #248 (permalink)  
 
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TerryCherry

Not quite correct. Everyone was asked to volunteer to take either 75% or 50% part time. Nearly every pilot volunteered and this has resulted in no compulsory redundancies, 94% of captains and first officers volunteered to take part time to save their colleages jobs. There is no new contract and anyone who wanted to could stay 100% on their normal salary. Second officers with less than 500hrs were not allowed to take the 50% option (despite most requesting it) because 2 weeks on 2 weeks off in the winter would mean that they would regularly go 14 days or more without flying which was the recency limit.

Any offer to take part time was voluntary and once offered, we weren't required to sign our new contracts. Not that it will happen for years (2024 I imagine at the earliest), any new hire cadet would be hired on the usual 46k contract. Word of warning, every current employee must be offered 100% again before any new hiring will take place.

We've been told that at least over the next year that CR is very unlikely because we've already pushed crew numbers very low. If we get rid of more people we would stand no chance of being able to take advantage of a recovery next year. We were also told that if next summer isn't a good year revenue wise, the airline could conceivably not make it beyond 2021 anyway meaning that any CR is probably a waste of time.
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Old 24th Sep 2020, 14:53
  #249 (permalink)  
 
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Sounds like a very good example of how to deal with the situation. About as fair as it can be under the circumstances. And certainly lightyears ahead of some other places which could have done the same, but opted for a lot of dead bodies in the basement instead.
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Old 24th Sep 2020, 16:03
  #250 (permalink)  
 
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giggitygiggity

Thanks for the insight! Sounds as reasonable as it can be...
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Old 24th Sep 2020, 17:58
  #251 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jun 2020
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How can 75pc and 50pc and some full time work when the number of flights is at best 50pc of usual? Not sure it quite adds up. Also 23k wages is surely not sustainable on top of loan repayments.


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Old 25th Sep 2020, 15:22
  #252 (permalink)  
 
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With EZYs announcement today of no CRs, a few MPL Cadets that have been cut are seemingly trying to get the message out on social media about the fact that they have been shafted with no job and are now faced with potentially another 40k to upgrade to ATPL or will lose £60k if they end training.

Clearly some are pointing at something that might be contested here.

Surely someone on here must know more, can anyone actually tell me if there was anything in the training contracts about job offers being guaranteed and if this could even be remotely challenged. Or are these cadets and their parents just in complete denial about the contracts they've signed from the smooth salesmen?
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Old 25th Sep 2020, 16:12
  #253 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Nov 2011
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Any firm of solicitors worth their weight will look at the contract, find a breach (if there is one) and either work on a no win no fee basis knowing there are hundreds of the same people in a boat.

Sorry to say they’re out of pocket and I’d be surprised if there is anything at all they can do about it.

Question is why sign a contract like that in the first place where all of the risk is on you?
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Old 25th Sep 2020, 17:02
  #254 (permalink)  
 
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Exactly what I thought then, denial and maybe a slight bit of naivety, of course EZY would make sure their contracts were watertight.

Hindsight is great but never again should people skim over such huge contractual risks, the smooth talking salesmen quickly disappear and change stories when the going gets rough, this is the hardest of lessons for those involved.
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Old 29th Sep 2020, 22:04
  #255 (permalink)  
 
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planesandthings,

If the offer is anything like one I have seen in the past, the airline agreements say something like...

"Nothing in this agreement construes a relationship of employee and employer until such a time the conditions above have been met and you are offered a permanent employment contract".

I don't believe they directly hint at it being possible for it to be withdrawn, but reading between the lines the above sentence if their get out / force majeure.
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Old 30th Sep 2020, 08:45
  #256 (permalink)  
 
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so presumably one or more of the conditions won’t be completed (base training/having MPL issued) which leaves L3/EZY free from any responsibility.
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Old 7th Oct 2020, 01:03
  #257 (permalink)  
 
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planesandthings

Whilst CAE are upto their own thing (Silver Lining MPL or whatever BS they've decided to call it), you are perhaps mistaken. The L3 guys that got "their final shafting" as described in another thread and on social media actually has nothing to do with easyJet or CAE. easyJet haven't taken cadets from L3 for at least a year and the MPL program there wound up before that. The Generation easyJet program only had links with CAE as far as I know.

As bad as L3s shafting is, that is sadly the nature of the MPL, although anyone in that situation should shop around and get that training elsewhere at a far cheaper cost. I can't be bothered to go through EASA-FCL but I imagine they'd need to do quite a bit of real flying to turn their incomplete(or complete) MPL into an EASA fATPL (CPL if you want to split hairs). They'd need to learn to fly a real multi-engine piston aircraft and then do a CPL on it (must be 15hrs or more I'd imagine in a DA42/Seneca etc) and then do the IR on it which is probably the tricky part as IFR in a multi-engine piston is COMPLETELY different (read harder) to an IR on the A320. I'd imagine a rock bottom conversion would cost £25-30k to go from an MPL to a CPL/ME/IR of which you'd ADDITIONALLY have to attach a type rating to once you find an airline to recruit you (2024 at the earliest. Frankly they're not going to be sponsoring anyone before that). If the outcome of the £65k extra that L3 asked for was a conversion to a CPL/ME/IR and then a standard A320 type rating, sadly, almost reasonably priced given the current market rate; if the entire A320 phase needed to be redone by way of a full type rating - depends on what EASA-FCL says, perhaps there is room to use some of the previous hours, but I imagine this is a novel situation that needs regulatory investigation.

There is and was never any guarantee that doing an MPL would result in a permenant position with easyJet and despite the marketing, anyone that properly read the contract would know that was never the case. Anyone was deluded into thinking this was a sure thing. However, I apprecieate that under normal times, a cadet joining the MPL could have expected to be employed by easyJet about 18 months after day one of groundschool. This is not the case any more and any future applicants would be foolhardy to imagine so, or sell that impression to their parents.

Obviously I won't share the specific details in the contracts here as that is unfair on both parties. It roughly says that they will intend, but explicitly says they can't guarantee any placement with easyJet at the end of training. They made it clear they couldn't guarantee placement for precisely the scenario we find ourselves in. As brutal as this is, if they didn't have that clause, then shame on easyJet.

For any training/sponsorship/agreement, read the contract and expect/account (financially) for the worst. If that isn't palatable or possible, don't sign it!
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Old 7th Oct 2020, 07:53
  #258 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Feb 2010
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Originally Posted by giggitygiggity View Post
planesandthings

Whilst CAE are upto their own thing (Silver Lining MPL or whatever BS they've decided to call it), you are perhaps mistaken. The L3 guys that got "their final shafting" as described in another thread and on social media actually has nothing to do with easyJet or CAE. easyJet haven't taken cadets from L3 for at least a year and the MPL program there wound up before that. The Generation easyJet program only had links with CAE as far as I know.
I am well aware this is a CAE thread though there have been overlaps between the threads with the different FTOs, but I can absolutely say that L3 Easy MPL cadets finishing have been affected by this, you are right that EasyJet haven't taken whitetail cadets on for a year and neither was a new training programme forthcoming. But there have been EasyJet MPL trainees in the pipeline from L3 for the past couple of years scheduled to complete in 2020 and it is those that have been affected, they do exist and I even have contact details for people in this situation and the union hosted a conference call with them a fortnight ago, the situation is very real and I am therefore not mistaken.

I concur with the rest of your comments but factually that is the case.
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