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CAE easyJet MPL 2020

Old 5th Sep 2020, 01:38
  #221 (permalink)  
Join Date: Oct 2016
Location: UK
Posts: 2
I'm not going to discuss the market, I'm sure your ears are full of every tom dick and harry making predictions of something nobody really understand.

But my advice to everyone is to wait until end of next week. Long story short EZY is in the process of number crunching this coming week after uk pilots offered their preference to go part time to save jobs. BALPA thinks compulsory redundancies could be avoided as the result. The final outcome could potentially have an impact in your decision making.

Best of luck to you all and our thoughts are with you...
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Old 5th Sep 2020, 07:43
  #222 (permalink)  
Join Date: Jul 2011
Location: UK
Posts: 513
To add to confidentials advice to hold on and see what happens next week with regards to ezy redundancies. That is all true and correct, however if redundancies are largely avoided that may actually lead to a longer wait until ezy recruit again.

In the scenario that redundancies are avoided then that means the vast majority of first officers (and captains) will be part time. So any expansion of the airline operations will be managed through people going from part time to full time again. Itís going to be a long while until recruitment occurs that is for sure.
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Old 5th Sep 2020, 14:09
  #223 (permalink)  
Join Date: Nov 2011
Location: Athens
Posts: 123
I‘m sorry this has happened but to be honest it’s what happens when people don’t do their research properly.

I hope in future people read these threads and are not dumb enough (yes dumb) to fall for the marketing BS of these big schools.

I was dead set on going to CTC/CAE and after scrutinising every single detail (which is what you should do before such a large expense) decided that the piece of paper at the end of it I could get for circa 50-60k not £100k.

Alex Whittingham made the best recommendation stop listening to the ATO that has shafted you and start pushing the CAA to give you a pathway to getting an f-ATPL, it will be far cheaper than anything L3/CAE offer even if you all pull together and go through the legal route.

The MPL is a worthless piece of paper and there isn’t anyone that can convince me otherwise.

I honestly hate parts of this industry, these ATO’s aren’t regulated in the things they say and just take advantage of the naive.
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Old 5th Sep 2020, 15:25
  #224 (permalink)  
Join Date: Oct 2016
Location: UK
Posts: 2

You are so full of yourself. People have different circumstances in life and make decisions accordingly. Just because you reached a conclusion doesn't make you right and everyone else "dumb" or "naive" for selecting another path in training.

No disrespect to your superpowers but no-one else apart from you could've expect a global disaster like this. I was one of those "dumb" people you refer to who did my training with CTC and was tagged with an airline before I even finished my training. I knew full well the actual cost was 60k but was happy to fork out double that because i knew that was the cost of having and keeping a job after. Thanks to Training Bond Scheme offered by CTC, I'm now sitting on a 60k+ redundancy package if they want to get rid of me. All of the sudden I'm not so stupid or naive am I?

I wish you success and compassion in your adventures
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Old 6th Sep 2020, 22:41
  #225 (permalink)  
Join Date: Nov 2011
Location: Athens
Posts: 123
Different enough circumstances to spend way over the odds for something that if the worst happened you would be completely stuck and unable to adapt? How does that sound like a good idea?

All you need to do is look into an MPL and ask yourself, what if the worst happened and the airline pulled the job, could i apply to other airlines? If the answer is a big fat no then maybe just maybe its not the smartest option? Just because you were 'tagged' to an airline during your training doesn't mean the airline cant 'un-tag' you on a whim.

I don't need superpowers to know that the aviation industry is cyclical and is usually the first to suffer the effects of world events, these usually occur around every 10 years or were you not aware of 9/11 and the financial crisis? Plenty of people predicted something was due to occur (take a look at some other threads on these forums) you just have to take the rose tinted glasses off. This is a job that the vast majority of training makes you focus on how to mitigate and deal with worst possible outcomes (usually by showing you the mistakes others have made).

Sitting on a £60k redundancy package that best case scenario would turn you into a modular student who spent 6 figures and did the training twice... sounds like fantastic value for money.

Again I'm sorry this has happened because its horrible and find this part of the industry abhorrent as it takes advantage of peoples dreams but the writing has always been on the wall with regard to these schemes yet people choose to ignore it and will continue to do so in favour of the 'easiest' route.

I sincerely hope you and the others get a good solution that allows you to get a frozen ATPL without having to needlessly fork out more money.
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Old 7th Sep 2020, 12:10
  #226 (permalink)  
Join Date: Aug 1998
Location: London, UK
Posts: 1,962
All you need to do is look into an MPL and ask yourself, what if the worst happened and the airline pulled the job, could i apply to other airlines? If the answer is a big fat no then maybe just maybe its not the smartest option?
The answer is NOT a "big fat no". You would have to be trained in the new airline's SOPs - which every new starter at an airline has to do anyway.
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Old 7th Sep 2020, 12:20
  #227 (permalink)  
Join Date: Nov 2011
Location: Athens
Posts: 123
ok great so in practice this is possible. In reality very very very unlikely, I would love to find an airline that has been or will be willing to do that with someone who has an MPL.

(Don’t hold your breath)
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Old 8th Sep 2020, 14:21
  #228 (permalink)  
Join Date: Jun 2019
Location: Newcastle upon Tyne
Posts: 28
Originally Posted by Groundloop View Post
The answer is NOT a "big fat no". You would have to be trained in the new airline's SOPs - which every new starter at an airline has to do anyway.
It's a big fat no mate. Don't kid yourself around
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Old 8th Sep 2020, 15:38
  #229 (permalink)  
Join Date: Jul 2017
Location: Surrey
Posts: 6

Well I for one pre-covid (January) had passed the BA selection and was waiting for a start date, I definitely have an MPL and definitely work for another airline.
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Old 8th Sep 2020, 16:15
  #230 (permalink)  

de minimus non curat lex
Join Date: Feb 2001
Location: sunny troon
Posts: 1,360
Once the MPL is issued, how does that differ from a fATPL pilot with a CPL/IR; both with the identical type rating so far as operating in the RHS?

The reduction in the MPL course light ac training compared to the CPL/IR standard route (integrated / modular) is irrelevant for a FO in the RHS.

BA Cityflyers employ FTE trained MPL FOs (or did until C-19 impacted)

I don’t really understand where the difficulty lies, apart by those who don’t have a Scooby about this licence.
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Old 8th Sep 2020, 16:17
  #231 (permalink)  
Join Date: Nov 2011
Location: Athens
Posts: 123

Thatís great news.

Presumably you had over 500 hours on type or whatever the requirement was?

What about those that donít?

Last edited by FlyingGreek; 8th Sep 2020 at 16:50.
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Old 8th Sep 2020, 18:41
  #232 (permalink)  
Join Date: Jul 2017
Location: Surrey
Posts: 6
When I applied I had met the 'Minimum experience of 100 sectors' requirement but was still a ways off 500 hours. I understand this is a simpler process for myself due to the fact I had completed base training and had some flying experience on a suitable aircraft, but I can see no issue in MPL cadets who have not yet completed the base training to be taken on by another airline once the required training re SOPs and such has been completed. I will not disagree with you in the fact the MPL does make it harder to change employers and limits what you can do for a flying job, however I managed to fulfil the requirements laid out in Part-FCL and completed a CPL skills test recently which has freed up some possibilities a bit sooner down the road. In total that cost me around £5k and while I would prefer not to pay anymore of my own money towards training it seemed like a logical step to take given current circumstances.
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Old 8th Sep 2020, 20:20
  #233 (permalink)  
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: UK
Posts: 954
Frankly, airlines aren't going to be hiring for a number of years, 3-4 perhaps? I'd be gobsmacked if easyjet hire so much as a new cleaner before 2023. That means that someone finishing an MPL now would potentially be a minimum of 3 years out of recency by the time that jobs become available. I know that technically recency can be re-validated with a 2hr sim but in what world would an airline hire a pilot that has bungled his way through an LPC 3 times or more and has the sum total of 6hrs of 'flying time' in the previous 3 years. I mean bungled in the nicest possible way, but with a type rating and 12 months off, you'll be going along for the ride in a LPC with a sympathetic trainer. A signature on your paperwork doesn't make you a sky god. That is compared to someone who has a CPL without a type rating, so no recency on type to worry about. They will do a type rating when the time comes, finish the 40hrs to be up-to-date on the A320 as can be. Don't forget, in 3 years time, you'll not be competing with other fresh CPLs anyway, you'll be competing with Thomas Cook, Virgin, British Airways, easyJet captains and first officers with upwards of 10,000hrs!

Anyone considering continuing an MPL (as a white-tail as CAE are trying the hard sell on) is mad if they think that they have any appeal to the airlines. Only a few of them in Europe understand the license, if you don't have an EU passport, there is potentially only 1 company that has any actual experience of MPL zero hours cadets now. The rest of them will flatly ignore you. That is awful probably to read and it isn't the end of the world, but the training department of any decent airline just won't want to take that risk on. You won't be jumping any queues, I think the opposite is probably far more likely.

I apprecieate this advice doesn't help people right at the end of training or those with an MPL, but might help those part way through consider the risk they're taking. Be prepared to spend some serious cash to get yourself saleable. For anyone part way through training, take indefinate leave and reconsider your options down the road. If you have completed it, save some money, then get a MEP rating and do a CPL skills test in a few years time.

Last edited by giggitygiggity; 9th Sep 2020 at 23:11.
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Old 16th Sep 2020, 12:10
  #234 (permalink)  
Join Date: Aug 2015
Location: Oxfordshire
Posts: 78
Anyone know the average cost of converting an MPL into a CPL?
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Old 16th Sep 2020, 21:43
  #235 (permalink)  
Join Date: Sep 2019
Location: Mexico City
Posts: 487
Do you expect anyone to answer that question when you have given no details to the context?
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Old 17th Sep 2020, 08:38
  #236 (permalink)  
Join Date: May 1999
Location: Bristol, England
Age: 62
Posts: 1,654
Quite possibly. A reasonably large group of MPL trainees have the same issue, having lost their sponsers, so somebody should have worked through the costings by now. I would be interested to know.
Alex Whittingham is online now  
Old 17th Sep 2020, 12:31
  #237 (permalink)  
Join Date: Sep 2019
Location: Mexico City
Posts: 487
These pages are filled with people with either a EU issued MPL with less than 1500 hours, an MPL issued overseas (Qatar usually) and want to convert it and any number of combinations of this. Unless the poster provides co text it is impossible to answer the question.
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Old 21st Sep 2020, 22:31
  #238 (permalink)  
Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: Wandsworth
Posts: 176

BALPLA held a webinar today on EasyJet MPL Cadets who have had their contracts terminated, cadets were strongly reminded this was not any form of redundancy as they never worked for EZY and that as per their contract this programme always carried risk.

Options still remain to
A) Continue MPL Training and find an operator to self fund/sponsor your training
B) Convert to whitetail ATPL at significant cost, figure still hidden but minimum around 30k (excluding TR)
C) Cut any losses and end training with anything unspent returned.

After much anticipation of advice, BALPAs answer today was "Wait and see" and provided little help to anyone.
A number of cadets are looking at option B/C and at least one is considering filing for personal bankruptcy if things don't improve sometime next year as they will not be able to meet loan payments, some who have completed the ME stage are considering alternative careers.

For once none of this is speculation or hype, amongst everything else the pilot training industry has truly come crashing down taking people with it.

Save your time and money folks, commercial aviation's doors are well and truly closed to newbies and with the second wave and further lockdowns imminent, who knows what will emerge afterwards. Stay safe.
planesandthings is offline  
Old 21st Sep 2020, 23:31
  #239 (permalink)  
Join Date: Jun 2020
Location: Liverpool
Posts: 2
How can you go bankrupt to clear debts if you have parents house on the line for the debt?

Also, what happens if you have less than 1500 hours and easyjet make you redundant? Can you start again with EZY or another airline or do you have to retrain if ever offered employment again?
TerryCherry is offline  
Old 22nd Sep 2020, 07:39
  #240 (permalink)  
Join Date: Feb 2020
Location: MADRID
Posts: 60
I guess if you don't have an open credit with any endorsement you can just go bankrupt.... I asked around some banks in 2019 and if you had a recomendation form the flying school you could get a credit without financial endorsment
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