Airways Aviation Academy
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Interesting post! They put up a very nice show in the event in Heathrow and even said that they paid their instructors a very decent wage in otder to keep them despite the airlines actively recruiting. I guess this isn't true?
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Airways has always put on a good show at events. Even their buildings have all the trappings of a good company. When they first took over AFT at Coventry, they gave the place a new lick of paint, new carpets in the foyer, pot plants, new uniforms, flash new website etc., decals and signage everywhere but in the background, . In fact very little changed, if anything things got worse.
Large turnover of staff, at one point, the records showed more staff had gone through the school than students.
The image they portray is all smoke and mirrors. Mr Atalla (The original owner of AFT) has tried to turn things around and injected considerable sums into the school. But reading what is written in Companies house records (annual financial reports and filings), then the school needs much greater throughput of students to be a viable concern. The school tends to take on riskier students from North Africa and the Middle East (Libya and Kuwait mainly). These students do not wish to learn the intricacies of flying or the theory,( just what button to press and when to press it, not why do I need to press that button and what happens when I press it) . They dominate the school and the school "cow tows" to them to the dissatisfaction of European students. I friend of mine whilst working for them in UK, was asked and they attempted to coerce him into signing students off as having completed the requisite attendance and training and falsely sign to say they had passed the school exams to a satisfactory standard so that the students could be entered for their CAA exams. He did not agree and left the company shortly afterwards.
I am not surprised that they had lost their training approval, if the CAA had done a check on them, I'm sure they would have found a multitude of problems. The company tried a few years ago to change things around by moving to Oxford, just few hundred metres from CAE OAA, this time calling themselves Airways Aviation Oxford (AAO). Hearing that CAE OAA were holding open days, they would coincidently hold an open day and intercept potential students and try and wow them with the smoke and mirrors act. They offer low cost courses (designed to undercut CAE OAA) but it turns out that with recourses and additional costs etc, the cost works out similar or even more expensive in the long run. The move to Oxford was at a cost, big newer building on expensive real estate with high lease costs and overheads which is all listed in the annual returns (some of which were filed late resulting in charges). They do have some success (offering military to civil crossover courses, willing students with military funded training allowances) and should be expected for them to achieve their ATO status. But when you look at the numbers, they are far fewer than the reputable schools. Most of their flying training is moving (or has moved) to Huesca in Northern Spain. Cheaper to run operations there.
So overall, be very careful when looking at this school. Take a look under the carpet and behind the scenes, look for the rubbish that has been swept under the carpet and the cracks that have been painted over. Ask lots of questions and make sure you get answers. At stake is a lot of money, you're hard earned or borrowed money. Make sure you are getting a satisfactory deal. One question should be: Who is the Authority they are operating under, and what is the current state of the approval, are they EASA or CAA compliant?
Large turnover of staff, at one point, the records showed more staff had gone through the school than students.
The image they portray is all smoke and mirrors. Mr Atalla (The original owner of AFT) has tried to turn things around and injected considerable sums into the school. But reading what is written in Companies house records (annual financial reports and filings), then the school needs much greater throughput of students to be a viable concern. The school tends to take on riskier students from North Africa and the Middle East (Libya and Kuwait mainly). These students do not wish to learn the intricacies of flying or the theory,( just what button to press and when to press it, not why do I need to press that button and what happens when I press it) . They dominate the school and the school "cow tows" to them to the dissatisfaction of European students. I friend of mine whilst working for them in UK, was asked and they attempted to coerce him into signing students off as having completed the requisite attendance and training and falsely sign to say they had passed the school exams to a satisfactory standard so that the students could be entered for their CAA exams. He did not agree and left the company shortly afterwards.
I am not surprised that they had lost their training approval, if the CAA had done a check on them, I'm sure they would have found a multitude of problems. The company tried a few years ago to change things around by moving to Oxford, just few hundred metres from CAE OAA, this time calling themselves Airways Aviation Oxford (AAO). Hearing that CAE OAA were holding open days, they would coincidently hold an open day and intercept potential students and try and wow them with the smoke and mirrors act. They offer low cost courses (designed to undercut CAE OAA) but it turns out that with recourses and additional costs etc, the cost works out similar or even more expensive in the long run. The move to Oxford was at a cost, big newer building on expensive real estate with high lease costs and overheads which is all listed in the annual returns (some of which were filed late resulting in charges). They do have some success (offering military to civil crossover courses, willing students with military funded training allowances) and should be expected for them to achieve their ATO status. But when you look at the numbers, they are far fewer than the reputable schools. Most of their flying training is moving (or has moved) to Huesca in Northern Spain. Cheaper to run operations there.
So overall, be very careful when looking at this school. Take a look under the carpet and behind the scenes, look for the rubbish that has been swept under the carpet and the cracks that have been painted over. Ask lots of questions and make sure you get answers. At stake is a lot of money, you're hard earned or borrowed money. Make sure you are getting a satisfactory deal. One question should be: Who is the Authority they are operating under, and what is the current state of the approval, are they EASA or CAA compliant?
Last edited by Stn120; 13th Jan 2019 at 13:27. Reason: spelling
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Nurse2Pilot - I fell victim to a well-executed show myself, so I understand why you'd think that. The marketing team has lots of glossy advertisements and handbooks, but they don't actually come through with the promises they make.
As for flight instructor's being paid well, that's a lie. My instructor told me that each instructor has a different salary regardless of experience or hours, because they were promised a different salary and set of benefits and bonuses when hired. Most of these promises haven't been honored and there is huge frustration between instructors and senior management because of this.
The operations in spain are awful too as the manager was fired, so the instructors's hardly get the hours in anyways to earn, and students therefore don't fly. I'd be surprised if we have more than 20 flights on a day with perfect weather.
This is why they're all leaving, and the students are so unhappy.
As for flight instructor's being paid well, that's a lie. My instructor told me that each instructor has a different salary regardless of experience or hours, because they were promised a different salary and set of benefits and bonuses when hired. Most of these promises haven't been honored and there is huge frustration between instructors and senior management because of this.
The operations in spain are awful too as the manager was fired, so the instructors's hardly get the hours in anyways to earn, and students therefore don't fly. I'd be surprised if we have more than 20 flights on a day with perfect weather.
This is why they're all leaving, and the students are so unhappy.
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I am a Libyan Student currently studying at Airways Aviation Spain you can ask me anything and I will answer honestly about my time so far.
The truth is the Libyan government are sponsoring many students to study in Spain with Airways and only pay as we move through the training. So a lack of flying, or a mess up in ground school, means we don't get our living allowance and Airways don't get paid. This has left us feeling resented as a group by Airways, even though it is not our fault. They want to move us through ASAP so they can get new European students which are better PR.
It is also true that some other cadets spent 18 months on their PPL studies because Airways don't know what they doing. This left many of my friends without enough money to live on and without the student welfare staff they would have gone hungry.
We never get to fly because they just dont have the staff to train this many students and it is eating away our time and money to wait for them to sort themselves out. It is a joke of a company, and if my situation was different I would never chose to train here or recommend anyone else does.
The truth is the Libyan government are sponsoring many students to study in Spain with Airways and only pay as we move through the training. So a lack of flying, or a mess up in ground school, means we don't get our living allowance and Airways don't get paid. This has left us feeling resented as a group by Airways, even though it is not our fault. They want to move us through ASAP so they can get new European students which are better PR.
It is also true that some other cadets spent 18 months on their PPL studies because Airways don't know what they doing. This left many of my friends without enough money to live on and without the student welfare staff they would have gone hungry.
We never get to fly because they just dont have the staff to train this many students and it is eating away our time and money to wait for them to sort themselves out. It is a joke of a company, and if my situation was different I would never chose to train here or recommend anyone else does.
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Wow, just.... wow! Even knowing to be cautious myself, I will say their marketing/PR team is very good! If not for the posts here, I would not be any wiser to the situation. Shiny, sleek website, very friendly and reassuring staff during the event, 5 advertised flying bases, how can a potential student really look under the carpet here? They've made sure the carpet is new and the cracks are properly covered up. I guess the real measure of a good school is feedback from students and student's success rates at gaining employment?
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I would suggest, try contacting Asian Academy of Aeronautics, they have qualified Flight and Ground Instructors. Also they do provide PPL, CPL/IR/MER, ATPL GS as well as FIR with Flight Instructor Jobs.
Hope you can reach them through their contact us form. School is based in Gan Island Maldives
Hope you can reach them through their contact us form. School is based in Gan Island Maldives
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I heard a rumour that they they were moving the last of the flying (MEIR) to Spain. Is the expensive building at Oxford going to be vacated too ? They moved in on 1st April 2016, so maybe it is an annual lease ?
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Yes all MEIR trg going to Spain
What's your source for that information and, more importantly, how recent is that?
I know both the two full time instructors at EGTK and I have it on excellent authority that, whilst that was proposed last year, the first thing the new management did when they took over late last year was change that plan. I can categorically state MEIR will continue at EGTK and Steve and Robs jobs are safe. If anything, my information is that they are planning to put more aircraft (ME and SE) into both Oxford and Spain.
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Hi
That info was from one of them but that was in Sept/Oct ? So new management after Oct ?
BTW since my previous post was my first hardly deserves the 'Again' Does it?
Rgds
PS Fluid & dynamic or just plain chaotic ................
That info was from one of them but that was in Sept/Oct ? So new management after Oct ?
BTW since my previous post was my first hardly deserves the 'Again' Does it?
Rgds
PS Fluid & dynamic or just plain chaotic ................
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BTW since my previous post was my first hardly deserves the 'Again' Does it?
Yes, Airways, like all flight training organisations at the moment are struggling to resource an increasing demand for pilots with a diminishing pool of instructors. Does this mean it’s a **** school? - of course it doesn’t. Does it mean the instructors or management are incompetent? - of course it doesn’t. Does it mean it’s a bad place to learn? No.
I’ve said it before students don’t always get the service they should but that does not mean there are unresolvable issues and the school deserves to be slated and struck off.
Most of the negative posts about schools come from students who express their side of the story - devoid of balance or the full facts. Who’s to say the one sided diatribes are a reasonable reflection of what happened or, indeed, the product of a disgruntled under performing student who is totally unrealistic in their expectations and are in for a big surprise when airline crewing departments or LTCs get their hands on them (should they make it that far!)
I take all posts that I am not able to disprove or know to be false with a huge pinch of salt which is why I bit at your post.
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I have previously worked for Airways and a couple of other ATO's
If I were to categorize the ATO's that I have worked for or have reasonable knowledge of, using the analogy of Cars:
L3, FTE Jerez and CAE Oxford would be in the luxury market (Mercedes, BMW, Jaguar with associated dealer support), More expensive but you get a much better and more enjoyable ride and have a greater chance of getting to your destination on time and in one piece, looking like a businessman ready for work.
Airways - A Ford Escort with a respray, Carlos Fandango wheels, Furry dice, Air horns and tinted windows, you might get there eventually(not necessarily on time), without the same level of comfort, sorting out your own repairs en-route, tired and stressed, looking like Del Boy.
If I were to categorize the ATO's that I have worked for or have reasonable knowledge of, using the analogy of Cars:
L3, FTE Jerez and CAE Oxford would be in the luxury market (Mercedes, BMW, Jaguar with associated dealer support), More expensive but you get a much better and more enjoyable ride and have a greater chance of getting to your destination on time and in one piece, looking like a businessman ready for work.
Airways - A Ford Escort with a respray, Carlos Fandango wheels, Furry dice, Air horns and tinted windows, you might get there eventually(not necessarily on time), without the same level of comfort, sorting out your own repairs en-route, tired and stressed, looking like Del Boy.
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Duchess
That info was given to me by AA management in Sept / Oct last year
I cannot remember exactly but it was the week where HoT was sacked at start and CFI resigned at end.
MEIR trg going to Spain was told to me over a beer that week by person directly involved
No I am not a student and yes I do believe those statements were true hence my reply to B61
So since you are familiar with AA pray tell the latest plan ?
Who is new management ? New HoT ?
Rgds
That info was given to me by AA management in Sept / Oct last year
I cannot remember exactly but it was the week where HoT was sacked at start and CFI resigned at end.
MEIR trg going to Spain was told to me over a beer that week by person directly involved
No I am not a student and yes I do believe those statements were true hence my reply to B61
So since you are familiar with AA pray tell the latest plan ?
Who is new management ? New HoT ?
Rgds
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I’ve never proclaimed to be close to Airways, but I know both Rob and Steve very well and hence before countering your claim I checked my facts.
They say a week is a long time in politics... I say it’s even longer in Aviaton.
Further - to correct inaccuracies - the HT wasn’t sacked in September - Pedro was in place until starting a TR with a Spanish Carrier and left of his own volition in December. The deputy HT at that time had a difference of Opinion with the CEO/COO and as it was his “train set” the dHT was told his services were no longer required as his style was not suited to the way the CEO wanted to do things
The CFI has long stated his desire to move on - tired of the commute between his home and (very) young family in The Netherlands and Spain. The interesting thing is his choice of next employer means geographically he is closer to home and the commute might be slightly shorter but there’s probably not much in it.
Plans for the future? Who knows? One thing is certain that no plan ever survives contact with the enemy. I don’t think they (the management) would consider themselves one of the big 3 either - but the new CEO has a significantly greater amount of Aviaton/Airline/training experience than the last one and the General Manager is also “well versed” in training and aviation, being an ex 737/767 LTC. Both are well respected in there chosen areas.
They say a week is a long time in politics... I say it’s even longer in Aviaton.
Further - to correct inaccuracies - the HT wasn’t sacked in September - Pedro was in place until starting a TR with a Spanish Carrier and left of his own volition in December. The deputy HT at that time had a difference of Opinion with the CEO/COO and as it was his “train set” the dHT was told his services were no longer required as his style was not suited to the way the CEO wanted to do things
The CFI has long stated his desire to move on - tired of the commute between his home and (very) young family in The Netherlands and Spain. The interesting thing is his choice of next employer means geographically he is closer to home and the commute might be slightly shorter but there’s probably not much in it.
Plans for the future? Who knows? One thing is certain that no plan ever survives contact with the enemy. I don’t think they (the management) would consider themselves one of the big 3 either - but the new CEO has a significantly greater amount of Aviaton/Airline/training experience than the last one and the General Manager is also “well versed” in training and aviation, being an ex 737/767 LTC. Both are well respected in there chosen areas.
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Airways Aviation
should igoto this school to do the modular course? ive recently failed the entry exams at another school and im really unsure whether I should retry the entry exam or apply for this school, originally I had good hopes for this school but from what people are saying it is slightly deterring me.
