Airways Aviation Academy
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Airways Aviation Academy
Hi guys
I just would like to have some info on the new Elite Pathways program (ATPL Integrated) of the Airways Aviation Academy based in Oxford.
I've already read an old thread about the school related to when the school was based in Coventry. But what about the "new" academy, based in Oxford Airport, and with the VFR part of the ATPL made in Spain?
Do you have some experience done in this school? What about the instructors and the overall perfromance of the school? Rate of employment after the course?
Thanks for your help
I just would like to have some info on the new Elite Pathways program (ATPL Integrated) of the Airways Aviation Academy based in Oxford.
I've already read an old thread about the school related to when the school was based in Coventry. But what about the "new" academy, based in Oxford Airport, and with the VFR part of the ATPL made in Spain?
Do you have some experience done in this school? What about the instructors and the overall perfromance of the school? Rate of employment after the course?
Thanks for your help
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I only know what I have heard from someone who started there not long ago. They dropped out after a month, they also said at least 4 other guys dropped out shortly after. It was said to me that some people are failing 5 of the 7 exams sat in the first sitting.
Do double check of course but this is just what I've heard from someone who did it themselves - they lost £10,000 in dropping out but they said it was worth it
Do double check of course but this is just what I've heard from someone who did it themselves - they lost £10,000 in dropping out but they said it was worth it
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Haven't heard good things about this place recently. The guys that were originally running it have all now left and had recently heard that the company weren't paying their suppliers.
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Very few graduates actually get any form of support in finding a job. Most end up doing themselves and it can take quite a time to do so. Small numbers of students. Take a look at Companies house for a bit of background information on the company.
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I've recently heard that most of their students are Libyans who are on modular (PPL) courses in Spain (Huesca), a way of sorting the wheat from the chaff. Very few European students. They are advertising for TKI's for Spain. Previous CEO has been moved on.
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Maybe I'm missing something, but when was airways aviation ever considered to be one of the big 3? ... I notice you mentioned 'Airways/CAE', are you sure you're not confusing them with OAA?
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Airways Aviation bought out Atlantic Flight Training at Coventry. Moved to Oxford so they could be called AAO (Airways Aviation Oxford) sounds like OAA (CAE OAA)but apart from a few hundred metres in location, there is a vast difference between the two. I've never heard od Airways being one of the big 3, I always thought this was L3(CTC), CAE OAA and FTE.
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OAA (which uses the facilities that once housed the highly regarded OATS under CSE Aviation) has been CAE OAA for some time now although I was under the impression they were planning to drop Oxford from the title.
I believe Airways Aero Associates was the airfield operator under which the British Airways Flying Club operated. I understand that both Wycombe Air Centre and BAFC now operate under the combined Booker Aviation branding.
I believe Airways Aero Associates was the airfield operator under which the British Airways Flying Club operated. I understand that both Wycombe Air Centre and BAFC now operate under the combined Booker Aviation branding.
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Last I heard over half the class my friend was in dropped out after a month and some of those who stayed failed numerous exams ... I'd say they're some way off anywhere near the 'big 3' and there are numerous other far better placed contenders for that title.
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The Airways building in Oxford is very nice. Modern and in a good location. That's about the only good thing I hear about Airways. A lot of unsuspecting people are dragged-in by the nice building, fancy uniforms, and glossy PR. A "fur coat and no knickers" institution, sadly.
They tell customers that courses are "nearly full", so they need to pay-up ASAP to guarantee their place on a course. In reality, courses are operating at about a third of their capacity.
I get the impression that they have a significantly lower selection standard than the Big Three. Probably to claw as many people as possible through the doors. A former Airways TKI said that some of the students were "unteachable".
It's not the first time I've heard someone refer to Airways as a "world leader", and a serious "competitor" for the Big Three, but this is complete fantasy in my opinion. It looks like they're clearly trying to mimic the Big Three with their top-end website, global training campuses, and dabbling in "training and recruitment solutions", but they're certainly nowhere near.
They tell customers that courses are "nearly full", so they need to pay-up ASAP to guarantee their place on a course. In reality, courses are operating at about a third of their capacity.
I get the impression that they have a significantly lower selection standard than the Big Three. Probably to claw as many people as possible through the doors. A former Airways TKI said that some of the students were "unteachable".
It's not the first time I've heard someone refer to Airways as a "world leader", and a serious "competitor" for the Big Three, but this is complete fantasy in my opinion. It looks like they're clearly trying to mimic the Big Three with their top-end website, global training campuses, and dabbling in "training and recruitment solutions", but they're certainly nowhere near.
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Companies house filed accounts for 2016 eludes to the fact that if further investment isn't forthcoming or business doesn't increase then future trading isn't viable. Made a sizeable loss in 2015 and 2016 even with new investment. So why then are they advertising for TKI's in Spain? Is it due to the Libyans training there, hoping that they will make the grade?
Last edited by WASALOADIE; 16th Oct 2017 at 08:49. Reason: added text
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Greetings. I am Marwan Atalla, Executive Chairman of Airways Aviation. I am here to answer any questions, but I will not indulge in subjective comments or arguments; only facts.
I previously ran Ayla Aviation Academy, which won Training Provider of the year in 2016. I have known the owner of Airways Aviation (previously Atlantic Flight Training) for many years, and I believe is his vision for the company and the industry. I had several meetings with him, and we eventually decided to join forces and merge the two companies. In view of the size and branding of Airways, we decided to use Airways Aviation instead of Ayla Aviation, which was only known in it's region.
An investment banking firm was hired to manage the merger, and they quickly came to the conclusion that it would be better for the company to close the base in Aqaba, and move the assets to the UK and Spain. This was based on many reasons, which I am happy to go into detail offline with anyone who is interested.
I became Chairman of Airways two months ago, and I am very proud to be part of this organization. Furthermore, we are proud to have a contract with the Libyan Government and to be part of the training of their future generation. Education is the most valuable investment any country can make in itself.
We are equally proud of our self-sponsored and Airline sponsored students. As of today, we have over 200 students in various stages of training. In addition, between the two organizations, we have several thousand graduates working in various Airlines in Europe, the Middle East, Africa and Asia.
Thank you
I previously ran Ayla Aviation Academy, which won Training Provider of the year in 2016. I have known the owner of Airways Aviation (previously Atlantic Flight Training) for many years, and I believe is his vision for the company and the industry. I had several meetings with him, and we eventually decided to join forces and merge the two companies. In view of the size and branding of Airways, we decided to use Airways Aviation instead of Ayla Aviation, which was only known in it's region.
An investment banking firm was hired to manage the merger, and they quickly came to the conclusion that it would be better for the company to close the base in Aqaba, and move the assets to the UK and Spain. This was based on many reasons, which I am happy to go into detail offline with anyone who is interested.
I became Chairman of Airways two months ago, and I am very proud to be part of this organization. Furthermore, we are proud to have a contract with the Libyan Government and to be part of the training of their future generation. Education is the most valuable investment any country can make in itself.
We are equally proud of our self-sponsored and Airline sponsored students. As of today, we have over 200 students in various stages of training. In addition, between the two organizations, we have several thousand graduates working in various Airlines in Europe, the Middle East, Africa and Asia.
Thank you
Seems I have dodged a number of bullets in looking for gainful aviation employment
Guess this will be quietly wound up then...
New pilot degree programme | University of South Wales
Guess this will be quietly wound up then...
New pilot degree programme | University of South Wales
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Why do you have such a high turnover rate of staff? I came close to joining what was Atlantic flight training in Coventry a couple of years ago, over the 3 month period I was looking at the school for, even doing an assessment, all 3 staff members I dealt with had all left in that time period and I had new names.
Why are there only terrible reviews about your establishment? Everyone I know who has gone there has either failed 5 of 7 exams, commented on awful instruction and some have even given up (losing upwards of £10,000 in the process) quite early on after deciding they had made a massive mistake and it was better to take the loss and salvage what they could of their future career.
It's a bit out there, but when I went to an open evening of atlantic, you were actually mentioned at it (by a person who left a month later), to quote him (it was so bizarre I'll never forget it), he said "Marwan has a vision that this school will become the 'Gucci' of the aviation industry", this was a means of somehow attempting to justify the £87,000 asking price (haven't a clue what it is now but understand its dropped considerably and rightly so). And on that, with the greatest of respect Mr Attala but I count my lucky stars I never joined this school because it comes as more like the pound shop of aviation. I just feel sorry for one kind lady I met at the open evening who I later heard went and joined the course, heaven only knows where she's at now the poor thing.
Why are there only terrible reviews about your establishment? Everyone I know who has gone there has either failed 5 of 7 exams, commented on awful instruction and some have even given up (losing upwards of £10,000 in the process) quite early on after deciding they had made a massive mistake and it was better to take the loss and salvage what they could of their future career.
It's a bit out there, but when I went to an open evening of atlantic, you were actually mentioned at it (by a person who left a month later), to quote him (it was so bizarre I'll never forget it), he said "Marwan has a vision that this school will become the 'Gucci' of the aviation industry", this was a means of somehow attempting to justify the £87,000 asking price (haven't a clue what it is now but understand its dropped considerably and rightly so). And on that, with the greatest of respect Mr Attala but I count my lucky stars I never joined this school because it comes as more like the pound shop of aviation. I just feel sorry for one kind lady I met at the open evening who I later heard went and joined the course, heaven only knows where she's at now the poor thing.
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Not surprised
A friend of mine recently finished and having heard all that has gone on (the changes and redundancies) it's not surprising that AA is following in the footsteps of AFT.
Especially if the conductor is the same of this orchestra as it was at AFT.
Quite disappointing really as the promise he/she was shown and told about the outcome has declined very quickly.
He/she said that the staff dealt with and facilities were in place for a really successful venture.
Turns out that's not the case; now that the conductor who clearly has the money but not the successful brains has put the descent on another company who showed a lot of promising signs!!
Especially if the conductor is the same of this orchestra as it was at AFT.
Quite disappointing really as the promise he/she was shown and told about the outcome has declined very quickly.
He/she said that the staff dealt with and facilities were in place for a really successful venture.
Turns out that's not the case; now that the conductor who clearly has the money but not the successful brains has put the descent on another company who showed a lot of promising signs!!
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As I said i can only answer with facts.
The high turnover is the result of the change in upper management. We have had a series of changes, due to various reasons. The key post holders, however, are still in place and the training has not been affected.
I have never used the term "Gucci" in my life, so I was obviously misquoted.
The lady you mention is still with us and progressing well in her training.
I will not respond to graphoo because it's a matter of opinion and only time will tell.
The high turnover is the result of the change in upper management. We have had a series of changes, due to various reasons. The key post holders, however, are still in place and the training has not been affected.
I have never used the term "Gucci" in my life, so I was obviously misquoted.
The lady you mention is still with us and progressing well in her training.
I will not respond to graphoo because it's a matter of opinion and only time will tell.
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Airways Aviation Spain Review
Hi all,
As a student at Airways Aviation (based in Spain) I can confirm that nothing has changed since the last load of messages below. The commercial side of the business has taken priority over safety and it is the students who suffer. The base here in Spain even lost it's training approval from the CAA towards the end of 2018 because there were so many air proies, and had to hire a new head of training (the old one quit) and chief flight instructor (he also quit) before it could be reinstated.
The main problem as far as I can see it is staff turnover. I can't say what's happening elsewhere, but here in Spain there is constant change in the staff body, caused by numerous ''hire and fires'' as well as people resigning because they couldn't handle the company culture any longer (including our CFI). This has left us feeling as though no-one really knows what they were doing.
This has even lead to some students being incorrectly sent to Montenegro to complete their PPL, only to find out this training didn't qualify them for an EASA license and had to then join us back in Spain to REDO their PPL. In total, just their PPL has taken 18 months! Not what you expect of an international flight school!
This has also lead to flight instructors dropping out to join the airlines or moving to other flight schools so we often go weeks grounded because there is simply no-one to fly us. This isn't helped by the reputation of the standards manager, an ex RAF guy in his seventies, who has apparently been in trouble numerous times for bullying other staff and even by students for racist remarks. What does him remaining say about the company culture?
If you can't tell already, I wouldn't recommend you join us here at Airways if you want to be treated as a professional pilot and not a student, if you want clarity in what is ahead in your course, or if you want any help in joining the airlines.
As a student at Airways Aviation (based in Spain) I can confirm that nothing has changed since the last load of messages below. The commercial side of the business has taken priority over safety and it is the students who suffer. The base here in Spain even lost it's training approval from the CAA towards the end of 2018 because there were so many air proies, and had to hire a new head of training (the old one quit) and chief flight instructor (he also quit) before it could be reinstated.
The main problem as far as I can see it is staff turnover. I can't say what's happening elsewhere, but here in Spain there is constant change in the staff body, caused by numerous ''hire and fires'' as well as people resigning because they couldn't handle the company culture any longer (including our CFI). This has left us feeling as though no-one really knows what they were doing.
This has even lead to some students being incorrectly sent to Montenegro to complete their PPL, only to find out this training didn't qualify them for an EASA license and had to then join us back in Spain to REDO their PPL. In total, just their PPL has taken 18 months! Not what you expect of an international flight school!
This has also lead to flight instructors dropping out to join the airlines or moving to other flight schools so we often go weeks grounded because there is simply no-one to fly us. This isn't helped by the reputation of the standards manager, an ex RAF guy in his seventies, who has apparently been in trouble numerous times for bullying other staff and even by students for racist remarks. What does him remaining say about the company culture?
If you can't tell already, I wouldn't recommend you join us here at Airways if you want to be treated as a professional pilot and not a student, if you want clarity in what is ahead in your course, or if you want any help in joining the airlines.