Foreign Licence Conversions - Good news!
Joined: Jun 2002
Posts: 43
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From: europe
I do not think it will change the flood of student.
Students already in the States would be interested to do a JAR/FAA license in same time.I think more guys will convert.I have thousand hours and now it's a good time for me to do the JAR.
Students already in the States would be interested to do a JAR/FAA license in same time.I think more guys will convert.I have thousand hours and now it's a good time for me to do the JAR.
Joined: Aug 2001
Posts: 13
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From: Deepest Devon
So Gorky, finally you accept that JAA is the way ahead....its good to see you have reached your senses.
As for reading this marvellous news.....mmmm, what can I spend the extra 7000 on? Thats an awful lot of watermark paper for my CV writing!
Thanks Linda and here we go!
As for reading this marvellous news.....mmmm, what can I spend the extra 7000 on? Thats an awful lot of watermark paper for my CV writing!
Thanks Linda and here we go!
Joined: Jun 2002
Posts: 43
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From: europe
I think the FAA is the way ahead with a small JAA convertion at the end.
ah ah, the CAA reaches their sens finally.It was just a question of time.
I ma very happy to hear that the monopole on training is over.
now EU schools will have to compete with non JAA schools and prices will start to decrease.
ah ah, the CAA reaches their sens finally.It was just a question of time.
I ma very happy to hear that the monopole on training is over.
now EU schools will have to compete with non JAA schools and prices will start to decrease.
Joined: May 2002
Posts: 19
Likes: 0
From: Spain
JAA IR Spain
Zerograv
Yes, I can obtain it here, doing a modular course and 7.000$ (25 hrs sim, 15 hrs seneca, 15 hrs arrow). and thanks God I have my ATPL written so I don´t have to do the theory. But with 1600 hrs flight time most of them IR would be great to get JAA IR without spending all that money.
Does anybody know where I have to talk to for obtaining JAA IR on UK? would be great
javier
Yes, I can obtain it here, doing a modular course and 7.000$ (25 hrs sim, 15 hrs seneca, 15 hrs arrow). and thanks God I have my ATPL written so I don´t have to do the theory. But with 1600 hrs flight time most of them IR would be great to get JAA IR without spending all that money.
Does anybody know where I have to talk to for obtaining JAA IR on UK? would be great
javier
I say there boy
Joined: Mar 2000
Posts: 1,065
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From: Somewhere
Gin Slinger,
As far as I am aware (and I'm digging through the documents now), CPL conversion from ICAO to JAA has always been a case of training at the discretion of the FTO, then a 170A then GFT, no change there.
cheers!
foggy.
As far as I am aware (and I'm digging through the documents now), CPL conversion from ICAO to JAA has always been a case of training at the discretion of the FTO, then a 170A then GFT, no change there.
cheers!
foggy.
Paid up
Joined: Jan 2002
Posts: 601
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From: UK
foggy - yes, thanks. Found that snippet of info too. Just never looked for it before because I knew that previously conversion of an FAA IR was a no no. Now that particular spanner in the works has gone, various new vistas are opening up...
Joined: May 2002
Posts: 981
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From: In a nice house
It also looks like, if its cheaper, you could do the FAA single engine IR plus a private multi rating and then come back to the UK, do your required hours of multi IR training, take the twin test then the IR test.
Could be cheaper.
Excellent news on the conversion, at last common sense has prevailed.
Could be cheaper.
Excellent news on the conversion, at last common sense has prevailed.
Joined: Aug 2002
Posts: 2,524
Likes: 1
From: United Kingdom
The answer is - No. The state in which you complete your training is, by definition, your State of Licence issue. It is possible to complete part of your training in one state and complete it in another (i.e. to change your state of licence issue) provided that both states agree. However, if you have completed all of your licence training in one state, you cannot get the licence issued in another.
Where JAA member states approve training organisations in other (non-JAA) states, those organisations are considered, for licencing purposes to be in the approving state. So, should you complete your training, for example, in the US, the state of licence issue will be whichever JAA member state approved the organisation.
JAR-FCL 1 (and 2 for that matter) still says that training outside member states is restricted to all or part of the ATPL integrated course and some states (notably France) will not accept such training as being valid for a JAA licence or rating.
Where JAA member states approve training organisations in other (non-JAA) states, those organisations are considered, for licencing purposes to be in the approving state. So, should you complete your training, for example, in the US, the state of licence issue will be whichever JAA member state approved the organisation.
JAR-FCL 1 (and 2 for that matter) still says that training outside member states is restricted to all or part of the ATPL integrated course and some states (notably France) will not accept such training as being valid for a JAA licence or rating.
Joined: Aug 2002
Posts: 2,524
Likes: 1
From: United Kingdom
What about it?
a. It's been withdrawn and incorporated into JAR-FCL
b. It's exactly what I wrote above -
In circumstances agreed by both Authorities, an applicant who has commenced training under the responsibility of one Authority may be permitted to complete the requirements under the responsibility of the other Authority.
In the example that you quote, you will have completed all of the requirements under the responsibility of one Authority.
a. It's been withdrawn and incorporated into JAR-FCL
b. It's exactly what I wrote above -
In circumstances agreed by both Authorities, an applicant who has commenced training under the responsibility of one Authority may be permitted to complete the requirements under the responsibility of the other Authority.
In the example that you quote, you will have completed all of the requirements under the responsibility of one Authority.
Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 246
Likes: 0
From: The Netherlands
Hey,
I think I have already posted this, but I'll post it again.
My current situation is:
- PPL by UK CAA
- class 1 medical by Dutch IVW/DL, accepted by UK CAA
- working on Dutch ATPL, will be accepted by CAA.
- planning on doing ME IR CPL in Spain.
This is the reply I got from the CAA:
I think I have already posted this, but I'll post it again.
My current situation is:
- PPL by UK CAA
- class 1 medical by Dutch IVW/DL, accepted by UK CAA
- working on Dutch ATPL, will be accepted by CAA.
- planning on doing ME IR CPL in Spain.
This is the reply I got from the CAA:
As you are currently the holder of a UK JAR-FCL PPL(A), the UK is the State
of Licence issue. You state in your e-mail that it is your intention to
train towards a professional licence in other JAA States. Firstly, you need
to establish who will be the State of Licence issue, the UK or another JAA
State such as Spain or the Netherlands where you may well undertake your
training.
JAR-FCL 1.065 as detailed in LASORS mentions that training and testing
completed in other JAA Member States may be allowable subject to a prior
agreement between the Authorities of the JAA Member States concerned.
However, some JAA States are still insisting that all requirements are met
in one State.
If the UK is going to be the State of Licence issue then we will generally
accept training and testing completed in other full JAA Member States
providing there is an agreement and that we are satisfied that ALL training
and testing is in accordance with JAR-FCL.
We have received other enquiries on this subject but mainly from individuals
who wish to complete their training in one other JAA State and not several
like you intend. I am assuming that you wish the UK to be the State of
Licence issue, therefore before you commence your training there are a
number of issues that you need to be aware of.
1. There is a procedure to convert your Dutch JAR-FCL Class 1 Medical
certificate to a UK issued JAR-FCL Class 1 as detailed on our medical
departments website, see link below.
http://www.caa.co.uk/srg/med/default.asp?page=2576
2. If you intend to complete your CPL(A) modular course in Spain you will
need an agreement between the UK CAA and the Spanish Authority. We would
have no objection to this if we are the State of Licence issue but would
need written confirmation from the Spanish agreeing to this arrangement. If
you intend to complete your CPL(A) modular course in the US then this will
need to be at a JAA approved FTO, and not an FAA approved school.
3. If you intend to complete your ATPL theory in the Netherlands then again
if we are the State of licence issue, we would accept a valid pass in the
JAR-FCL examinations. We have an arrangement with the Dutch Authorities that
we will not require their permission, they are in agreement as long as we
are the State of licence issue.
4. The IR and ME will be classified as additional ratings once you have been
issued with a JAR-CPL(A) therefore these may be completed in any other fully
approved JAA member State. The MCC can either be taken as part of an JAA
approved type rating course for a multi-pilot type or a standalone approved
course.
As mentioned earlier, the above is based on the UK being the State of
Licence issue, however If you intend to have your licence issued by another
JAA Member State then an agreement will need to be made with those States
where you complete your training to ensure that they at the end of the day
be willing to issue your licence.
I hope that the above has answered your enquiry.
of Licence issue. You state in your e-mail that it is your intention to
train towards a professional licence in other JAA States. Firstly, you need
to establish who will be the State of Licence issue, the UK or another JAA
State such as Spain or the Netherlands where you may well undertake your
training.
JAR-FCL 1.065 as detailed in LASORS mentions that training and testing
completed in other JAA Member States may be allowable subject to a prior
agreement between the Authorities of the JAA Member States concerned.
However, some JAA States are still insisting that all requirements are met
in one State.
If the UK is going to be the State of Licence issue then we will generally
accept training and testing completed in other full JAA Member States
providing there is an agreement and that we are satisfied that ALL training
and testing is in accordance with JAR-FCL.
We have received other enquiries on this subject but mainly from individuals
who wish to complete their training in one other JAA State and not several
like you intend. I am assuming that you wish the UK to be the State of
Licence issue, therefore before you commence your training there are a
number of issues that you need to be aware of.
1. There is a procedure to convert your Dutch JAR-FCL Class 1 Medical
certificate to a UK issued JAR-FCL Class 1 as detailed on our medical
departments website, see link below.
http://www.caa.co.uk/srg/med/default.asp?page=2576
2. If you intend to complete your CPL(A) modular course in Spain you will
need an agreement between the UK CAA and the Spanish Authority. We would
have no objection to this if we are the State of Licence issue but would
need written confirmation from the Spanish agreeing to this arrangement. If
you intend to complete your CPL(A) modular course in the US then this will
need to be at a JAA approved FTO, and not an FAA approved school.
3. If you intend to complete your ATPL theory in the Netherlands then again
if we are the State of licence issue, we would accept a valid pass in the
JAR-FCL examinations. We have an arrangement with the Dutch Authorities that
we will not require their permission, they are in agreement as long as we
are the State of licence issue.
4. The IR and ME will be classified as additional ratings once you have been
issued with a JAR-CPL(A) therefore these may be completed in any other fully
approved JAA member State. The MCC can either be taken as part of an JAA
approved type rating course for a multi-pilot type or a standalone approved
course.
As mentioned earlier, the above is based on the UK being the State of
Licence issue, however If you intend to have your licence issued by another
JAA Member State then an agreement will need to be made with those States
where you complete your training to ensure that they at the end of the day
be willing to issue your licence.
I hope that the above has answered your enquiry.
Joined: Aug 2002
Posts: 2,524
Likes: 1
From: United Kingdom
The problem is that JARs are the Joint Aviation Requirements, not Regulations. Member states can only implement those requirements within the framework of their individual national law. Most member states, UK included, cannot implement certain elements of JARs because their national law prohibits it.
This will be solved, in the case of those JAA member states that are also members of the EU, when EASA takes over licensing issues (currently due in 2006-2007). JARs will then be enshrined in EU law, which takes precedence over national law, and all EU countries will be legally obliged to comply with all parts of the requirements (goodbye US training?). The downside is that the UK CAA will probably lose the flexibility it currently enjoys in implementing the requirements and wannabees will have to deal with faceless bureaucrats in Cologne instead of Gatwick.
However, EASA will only function in EU member states, a number of JAA states are not members of the EU and this is set to increase as many Middle East and South American countries are looking to join. In solving one problem, it is likely that many more will be created.
This will be solved, in the case of those JAA member states that are also members of the EU, when EASA takes over licensing issues (currently due in 2006-2007). JARs will then be enshrined in EU law, which takes precedence over national law, and all EU countries will be legally obliged to comply with all parts of the requirements (goodbye US training?). The downside is that the UK CAA will probably lose the flexibility it currently enjoys in implementing the requirements and wannabees will have to deal with faceless bureaucrats in Cologne instead of Gatwick.
However, EASA will only function in EU member states, a number of JAA states are not members of the EU and this is set to increase as many Middle East and South American countries are looking to join. In solving one problem, it is likely that many more will be created.
Joined: Sep 2003
Posts: 286
Likes: 0
From: DNMM/UK
Training on a license issued on the basis of a foreign one
Sorry, if this question has been asked before (i've tried a search). I'm about to undergo FAA flight training (Comm/inst/multi) and would like to know if it possible to train on an FAA Pvt certificate issued on the basis of my JAA PPL. Thanks.
Capt M
Capt M
Last edited by Capt. Manuvar; 18th June 2004 at 11:30.
Moderator
Joined: Mar 2003
Posts: 2,586
Likes: 0
From: Orlando, Florida
Yes it is - provided you have a letter of authentication from the FAA dated within the last six months.
If you don't have a current letter - go through the authentication process again. One form to the relevant JAA authorities and one form to the FAA.
If you don't have a current letter - go through the authentication process again. One form to the relevant JAA authorities and one form to the FAA.
Joined: Aug 2001
Posts: 1,430
Likes: 44
From: FL390
i was told by the officer in the Miami FSDO office that you cannot add additional FAA ratings, i.e. Instrument etc.. onto a FAA licence issued on the basis of a foreign ICAO licence, ie. i could not do a FAA instrument rating on my FAA Private that was issed against my JAA PPL.
He said i would need a full FAA Private (i.e. take the Private written, oral and flight test)
He said i would need a full FAA Private (i.e. take the Private written, oral and flight test)
Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 1,486
Likes: 7
From: Darwin
Sort of true. You can do all the training you want provided you are licensed in America, but I would recommend heading back to your place of original license issue for the relevent flight tests and theory exams. Then they plop right onto your American license as well, without any additional paperwork (unless you change class, like PPL to CPL)
Oh, and it takes a while to get used to Americans calling licenses 'certificates'.
Lasior
Oh, and it takes a while to get used to Americans calling licenses 'certificates'.
Lasior
Moderator
Joined: Mar 2003
Posts: 2,586
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From: Orlando, Florida
What 'Spitfire' says WAS true, at one point - current theory from FSDO (at least in Orlando district) is to have a Certificate of Verification dated within the last six months.
Even if you've already been through the verification process - it must be dated within the last six months.
Even if you've already been through the verification process - it must be dated within the last six months.