Foreign Licence Conversions - Good news!
Joined: Mar 2001
Posts: 139
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From: Bournemouth, England
Foreign Licence Conversions - Good news!
The CAA have now agreed to allow foreign Licence Conversions to do the following (rather than the full approved 50 hour course).
The pilot is required to do a minimum course of 15 hours of which 5 hours can be done in an FNPT 1 or 10 hours can be done in an FNPT II, plus additional hours at the descretion of the Flight Training Organisation, then the 170A and the Skill Test.
Our thanks should go to the Flight Training Policy Group who worked hard to bring this about.
This information is not on the CAA web site yet but, according to an e-mail I had this morning form the CAA, it should be there sometime today.
The pilot is required to do a minimum course of 15 hours of which 5 hours can be done in an FNPT 1 or 10 hours can be done in an FNPT II, plus additional hours at the descretion of the Flight Training Organisation, then the 170A and the Skill Test.
Our thanks should go to the Flight Training Policy Group who worked hard to bring this about.
This information is not on the CAA web site yet but, according to an e-mail I had this morning form the CAA, it should be there sometime today.
Joined: Mar 2000
Posts: 1,450
Likes: 5
From: UK
Best news I've heard in a long time although some will not be happy that they've shelled out for the full course (how's life, Greaser?)!
From http://www.caa.co.uk/srg/licensing/whatsnew.asp
From http://www.caa.co.uk/srg/licensing/whatsnew.asp
Policy Information/Update - JAR IR Training/Credits for ICAO IR Holders 21 June 2002
In our last Policy Update of 1st November 2001 it was stated that an ICAO licence holder with IR, who does not meet the JAR-FCL ATPL experience requirements, shall undergo a full approved training course for the issue of an IR. It was further stated that this policy was being reviewed. We have now received a response from a representative of UK training organisations and the following conversion requirements have been agreed and may be implemented with immediate effect:
“The holder of an IR, issued in accordance with ICAO Annex 1 by a non-JAA State shall, (subject to the notes below), complete all items of the appropriate JAR IR syllabus including at least 15 hours of flight instruction, of which 5 hours may be in a FNPT 1*, or 10 hours in a FNPT 2* or Flight Simulator*, plus any additional training considered necessary by the FTO, plus a 170A Flight Test and a JAR IR Skill Test.”
NOTES:
* Such synthetic training device shall be appropriately approved.
The holder of an ATPL(A) or CPL(A)/IR issued in accordance with ICAO Annex 1 who meets the 1500 hours flying experience requirements on multi-pilot aeroplanes (as PIC or co-pilot) of Appendix 1 to JAR-FCL 1.015 may be exempted from the requirements of the IR(A) modular course prior to undertaking the theoretical knowledge examinations and the IR(A) Skill Test.
Other exceptional cases should continue be referred to the CAA.
These credits shall remain subject to review in discussion with the JAA and representatives of UK training organisations.
In our last Policy Update of 1st November 2001 it was stated that an ICAO licence holder with IR, who does not meet the JAR-FCL ATPL experience requirements, shall undergo a full approved training course for the issue of an IR. It was further stated that this policy was being reviewed. We have now received a response from a representative of UK training organisations and the following conversion requirements have been agreed and may be implemented with immediate effect:
“The holder of an IR, issued in accordance with ICAO Annex 1 by a non-JAA State shall, (subject to the notes below), complete all items of the appropriate JAR IR syllabus including at least 15 hours of flight instruction, of which 5 hours may be in a FNPT 1*, or 10 hours in a FNPT 2* or Flight Simulator*, plus any additional training considered necessary by the FTO, plus a 170A Flight Test and a JAR IR Skill Test.”
NOTES:
* Such synthetic training device shall be appropriately approved.
The holder of an ATPL(A) or CPL(A)/IR issued in accordance with ICAO Annex 1 who meets the 1500 hours flying experience requirements on multi-pilot aeroplanes (as PIC or co-pilot) of Appendix 1 to JAR-FCL 1.015 may be exempted from the requirements of the IR(A) modular course prior to undertaking the theoretical knowledge examinations and the IR(A) Skill Test.
Other exceptional cases should continue be referred to the CAA.
These credits shall remain subject to review in discussion with the JAA and representatives of UK training organisations.
Last edited by Megaton; 24th June 2002 at 12:09.
Joined: May 2002
Posts: 66
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From: I wish I knew sometimes
Wow, that is the best news I have seen in a while. Kudos to the folks who made it happen. Can anyone tell me if you have an ICAO ATPL do you have to do the JAA CPL flight test or just the ME/IR. Second question. Is there 2 rides for the ME/IR and what are they?? Thanks.......
Joined: May 2002
Aviation Qualifications: ATPL
Posts: 793
Likes: 66
From: ex ZB and back
Without wishing to be shot down as I think that this is a common sense change of regs, can I ask the question in the Wannabe's forum, does this mean that there will be more qualified (foreign) pilots in the queue for UK jobs?
Just a thought
S
Just a thought
S
Joined: Apr 2002
Posts: 273
Likes: 1
From: Brisvegas
I think the 14 exams is still the major stumbling block for most foreign pilots converting. Most guys and girls I know wouldn't give up a job to spend 6 months studying again.
There will be at least one more pilot in the UK job line though. HeHe!
There will be at least one more pilot in the UK job line though. HeHe!
Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 222
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From: UK
Good news. Just out of interest, what are the UK FTO's views on this ? Forgive possible ignorance, if guys in future go the route of obtaining FAA IR's and converting, would this not seriously affect them ? Will "traditional" IR courses still be viable to be run or will we see the gradual disappearance of it ?
Joined: Mar 2001
Posts: 139
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From: Bournemouth, England
First of all, apologies. I should have specified the 50 hour IR course, not just the 50 hour course.
To answer some of your queries:
Jason_beall:
To answer your questions in general terms.
Both FNPT 1 and FNPT 2 are fixed base simulators An FNPT 1 is a basic device with simple systems and no visual, roughly replicating a class of aircraft. An FNPT 2 is somewhat more sophisticated in its systems and includes a basic visual.
Basically most FTOs have one type or the other these days. The FNPT 2 usually has more credits allowing you to do more training in the simulator (hence the 10 hours compared to the 5 hours in the new minimum course hours for the IR course for ICAO to JAA IR conversions).
Buzzy:
No, Those who meet the JAR ATPL requirements are exempted even the 15 hour course. This new minimum 15 hour course is for those with a non-JAA CPL/IR or ATPL who do not meet the JAR ATPL requirements.
Canadian Kid:
I should have a look at the CAA website (www.caa.co.uk). Look under personnel licencing, flight crew licencing, GID 24 and 25.
This defines that you need to do the theroetical exams and training as required for the CPL plus the CPL SKill Test.
If you have a non-JAA multi rating you willl need to do a Multi Engine Piston Class Rating ( but no miniumum course hours) and the test can be done at the flight school - you do not have to go to a full-time CAA examiner for it.
The IR is then as specified above.
The GIDs have not yet been updated with the new rules for the minimum 15 hour course for the IR.
To answer some of your queries:
Jason_beall:
To answer your questions in general terms.
Both FNPT 1 and FNPT 2 are fixed base simulators An FNPT 1 is a basic device with simple systems and no visual, roughly replicating a class of aircraft. An FNPT 2 is somewhat more sophisticated in its systems and includes a basic visual.
Basically most FTOs have one type or the other these days. The FNPT 2 usually has more credits allowing you to do more training in the simulator (hence the 10 hours compared to the 5 hours in the new minimum course hours for the IR course for ICAO to JAA IR conversions).
Buzzy:
No, Those who meet the JAR ATPL requirements are exempted even the 15 hour course. This new minimum 15 hour course is for those with a non-JAA CPL/IR or ATPL who do not meet the JAR ATPL requirements.
Canadian Kid:
I should have a look at the CAA website (www.caa.co.uk). Look under personnel licencing, flight crew licencing, GID 24 and 25.
This defines that you need to do the theroetical exams and training as required for the CPL plus the CPL SKill Test.
If you have a non-JAA multi rating you willl need to do a Multi Engine Piston Class Rating ( but no miniumum course hours) and the test can be done at the flight school - you do not have to go to a full-time CAA examiner for it.
The IR is then as specified above.
The GIDs have not yet been updated with the new rules for the minimum 15 hour course for the IR.
Joined: Mar 2002
Posts: 550
Likes: 0
From: UK
This is good news, a few months too late for me. Thanks Ham for reminding me!
The CAA only cost me an extra 10000 quid then - not too bad, thieving gits.
Good luck to all those 'converting' foreign licenses. At least an FAA IR is now considered somewhere above kindling.
The CAA only cost me an extra 10000 quid then - not too bad, thieving gits.
Good luck to all those 'converting' foreign licenses. At least an FAA IR is now considered somewhere above kindling.
Joined: May 2002
Posts: 19
Likes: 0
From: Spain
Re: Foreign Licence Conversions - Good news!
Linda,
I still have my doubts. I have JAA ATPL written and CPL and want to get my IR. If I already have FAA CPL/IR ME, following CAA pages what I should have to do to get JAA IR?
I think that everybody would like to know this. Is there any FTO in UK doing this?
As JAA says you need +500 hours IR to get a reduced modular course to get JAA IR/ME rating. Has this changed?
thanks a lot for all your help.
javier
I still have my doubts. I have JAA ATPL written and CPL and want to get my IR. If I already have FAA CPL/IR ME, following CAA pages what I should have to do to get JAA IR?
I think that everybody would like to know this. Is there any FTO in UK doing this?
As JAA says you need +500 hours IR to get a reduced modular course to get JAA IR/ME rating. Has this changed?
thanks a lot for all your help.
javier
Joined: Aug 2001
Posts: 321
Likes: 0
From: Salop
This is excellent news !! 
Linda, thanks for relaying this info to the masses ! I only found out about this on Friday afternoon (after sitting, and passing, my Instrument Rating written exam in the morning) as I have been too busy to visit the site in the last couple of weeks. It certainly made my day, no, that should be weekend !! I buzzed more off that than I did about passing my INRAT !! It's been worth the hassle.
Massive thanks to the guys and gals who have been pushing this one. Commiserations to those ICAO IR holders who have recently finished the full approved JAR IR !! I feel for ya !!
Cheers,
C.G.
Linda, thanks for relaying this info to the masses ! I only found out about this on Friday afternoon (after sitting, and passing, my Instrument Rating written exam in the morning) as I have been too busy to visit the site in the last couple of weeks. It certainly made my day, no, that should be weekend !! I buzzed more off that than I did about passing my INRAT !! It's been worth the hassle.
Massive thanks to the guys and gals who have been pushing this one. Commiserations to those ICAO IR holders who have recently finished the full approved JAR IR !! I feel for ya !!
Cheers,
C.G.
Paid up
Joined: Jan 2002
Posts: 601
Likes: 0
From: UK
Can anyone shout me down for any of this? :-
1. JAR MEP required, but no minimum training hour requirement. Possibly for an experienced multi pilot just a skills test required.
2. ICAO IR get a reduction of 30 hours. Either 5 or 10 in the sim., depending on type.
3. The CPL - not clear. Does this require a minimum number of training hours? If not, then maybe just a 170A then a GFT. If an approved course is required, do after IR for a 10 hour reduction to 15 hours.
Conversion costs? Can anyone hazard a guess? I'll have a go:
Maybe £2750 for the IR, same for CPL and lets say £500 for MEP, plus £1128 for CAA skills test. Just over £7k plus licence issue fees. Anyone think I'm mile off?
1. JAR MEP required, but no minimum training hour requirement. Possibly for an experienced multi pilot just a skills test required.
2. ICAO IR get a reduction of 30 hours. Either 5 or 10 in the sim., depending on type.
3. The CPL - not clear. Does this require a minimum number of training hours? If not, then maybe just a 170A then a GFT. If an approved course is required, do after IR for a 10 hour reduction to 15 hours.
Conversion costs? Can anyone hazard a guess? I'll have a go:
Maybe £2750 for the IR, same for CPL and lets say £500 for MEP, plus £1128 for CAA skills test. Just over £7k plus licence issue fees. Anyone think I'm mile off?