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Hour Building USA - (Master thread)

Old 2nd Jan 2014, 12:17
  #41 (permalink)  
Join Date: May 2009
Location: HKG
Age: 44
Posts: 992
Do you have or can you get the legal right to work in the US? If you can forget about the EASA stuff for now just concentrate on getting the FAA CPL/IR Multi. You would have to be very lucky to get a job in an airline in Europe with a fresh FATPL and even luckier to get a job flying a light aircraft if you don't get straight into an airline.

If you can legally work in the US you would be unlucky to not be able to find a paid, albeit low pay, job in a light aircraft. Thats if your willing to go anywhere in the states to work. The opposite is true in Europe. Once you have your FAA CPL/IR and have found a job start studying for the EASA ATPL ground exams, unfortunately your FAA knowledge will do little to help you with these exams. You can build time whilst studying and bit by bit convert the rest when you are able, CPL, IR etc, if you decide you really want to work in Europe.

In the states I could almost guarantee that with motivation and drive you would have some jet or turboprop time within 3-5 years. In Europe I could almost guarantee you will not have found a job within 3-5 years.

If you find the right school with nice weather you could be qualified within 6 months and looking for that 1st job.

If you can't work in the states, good luck.
SloppyJoe is offline  
Old 2nd Jan 2014, 12:27
  #42 (permalink)  
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: On top of a hill
Posts: 56
Firstly, multi time during hour building: By all means, do some if you want - it's great fun! However, I would say don't die in a ditch over getting it in. You will find that it probably doesn't make a huge amount of difference in how many hours you take by the time you have finished.

One of the guys I went through the CPL/IR with had done his MEP rating in the States and I think it took 4 or 5 hours off the minimum requirement for licence issue, but not sure if he actually found it an advantage (I remember him saying afterwards that he would rather have done the additional ME hours during the CPL course, so he would have been more current/comfortable come the test - currency is everything!).

I would also suggest that you go out and use the hour building to try new things, as well as improving your skills. If you can, do some IF, aerobatics etc. It will make you a much better pilot overall (and help you get through the courses a bit more easily IMHO). I did an IMC rating, AOPA Aerobatics course and a formation flying course during mine and it was bloody good fun! As Mikehotel152 says, enjoy yourself! It will be the only time in your life that you have to go and do a load of flying - and what you do is almost entirely up to you!

It is not difficult to practise the CPL skills while also going to fun places with your mates - all you need to do is practise the skills you will need while doing it (and should have already learnt on your PPL anyway!): Plan on a chart, not SkyDemon etc., don't just follow the GPS, hold yourself to good standards of accuracy in your nav and don't just get lazy. If you can, as already suggested, do the occasional trip with an instructor to make sure you aren't picking up any bad habits. Simple! Just remember, the hour building is designed to give you the experience and skill level necessary to complete the CPL. Too many people see it a just a number that has to be achieved, regardless of what they do. Trust me, you can tell the difference between a pilot who has just burnt holes in the sky for 150 hours and one who has done something useful with their time...

Don't forget though, that you need 100 hours PIC as well as just 150 total...

A final suggestion would be to save some of your flying for the UK. Having come across a lot of US-trained students while instructing (and having discussed with many instructors who teach at all levels), it is obvious that flying in US airspace doesn't fully prepare you for flying in the crowded UK, with its different procedures and ATC etc. Well worth doing a proportion back here (probably the last remaining flying before you start the CPL).

With regard to the ATPL theory, the previous comment about concentrating on that before the majority of the flying is a good one. I would suggest that most of it is not hugely complex, but it is the sheer volume of material to wade through that makes it "difficult"! What I used to do was "schedule" myself that I could only go flying once every x hours of studying/y progress tests completed etc. It didn't always work(!) but did help to keep things moving most of the time!

Good luck and enjoy yourself!
LAI is offline  
Old 2nd Jan 2014, 13:53
  #43 (permalink)  
Join Date: Dec 2013
Location: United Kingdom
Posts: 7
thanks Gents, some really useful stuff here!

Do you have or can you get the legal right to work in the US? If you can forget about the EASA stuff for now just concentrate on getting the FAA CPL/IR Multi.
Yes, i have dual-nationality and hold passports for both countries, so I CAN work in the States. I am, by no means adamant on staying in the Uk ( truth is, I cant wait to get out ) . In fact, i'd enjoy living anywhere that would allow me to fly - quite fancy seeing new places/people, but the States is where i will likely head back to, in the not-too-distant, for training and carrer prospects..

my initial plan was to continue working in the UK, accumulate a lump of savings, and then change to $ to take advantage of the exchange rate(more moneys = more flying time) and get some good time in!!
Would it be an idea to complete the EASA ATPL exams whilst still working in the UK (and saving for CPL/IR), or would you recommend i head Stateside, get on with the CPL & ME IR, finding some sort of low-pay job to build hours, whist studying the FAA ATP? Again, i have no real reason to return to the UK/EU (other than to visit my dear mother) , so is there any point in doing the EASA ATPL? seems a bit more comprehensive than the FAA syllabus!?
I dont suppose one could do the FAA ATP whilst in the UK either? just a thought.

thanks for the advice LAI - some good shouts there, particularly like the formation flying course idea !
i'll take note of these points youve made. I've got family all over the US, so that might just be reason enough to get some cross-country flying in and concentrate on Nav excercises, planning, VOR tracking, as well as visiting as many aerodomes as possible.

Man, just talking about it puts a smile on my face..

One question to add - what sort of jobs could one expect in a light aircraft? are you talking sydiving pilot, day trips, and the sort, or actual transport jobs? charter maybe?

Last edited by DeanKline; 2nd Jan 2014 at 14:11. Reason: question to add
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Old 2nd Jan 2014, 14:43
  #44 (permalink)  
Join Date: May 2009
Location: HKG
Age: 44
Posts: 992
You do not need to study for the FAA ATP. It is not like the EASA FATPL. You can get an FAA ATP once you have 1500hrs. The written test is easy. If I were you and after hearing what you have said do not do anything with EASA.

Save your money or if you have enough just go to the states and enroll in a course. There is no integrated system there, you do a PPL, build some time, do an IR, build some time, do the CPL then add a multi IR to it. It is a far simpler system and if you have no plan to work in Europe the license is just as recognized elsewhere in the world as an EASA one.

If you do not have a degree instead of worrying about EASA exams look for an online degree course you would like to do as this can hold you back in the US if you don't have one.

The cost of training to the same level in the US will cost you less than 50% of here in Europe.

Do not get an EASA license, not even a PPL, it is a waste of money. There are far better opportunities in the US, especially at the moment. 1st step find a school to do a PPL at. 40 hours and takes a few weeks at the right school, whilst doing that you will learn far more about this industry and what you need to do. One step at a time and that is the first step.
SloppyJoe is offline  
Old 3rd Jan 2014, 08:21
  #45 (permalink)  
Join Date: Dec 2013
Location: United Kingdom
Posts: 7
thats an extremely helpful post - Thanks SloppyJoe.

Looks like im heading back home sooner than i thought !

Would I need to also do the JOC course and MCC over there, or is that yet another EASA add on?

also, i dont suppose anyone has done any flying in Albuquerque? I have found 2 schools there ( Del Sol, and Bode Aviation) and wonder if anyone knows about the standard of training there?
I do also have family in Texas, where i could train, if anyone knows of some good schools out that way!

appreciate the tips!
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Old 3rd Jan 2014, 10:47
  #46 (permalink)  
Join Date: Apr 2011
Location: United Kingdom
Posts: 40
It's now 200 tt to "take" the cpl skills test. Not issue anymore. Something I have to think about now regarding which way to do cpl ir. Probably Ir first.
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Old 7th Jan 2014, 16:52
  #47 (permalink)  
Thread Starter
Join Date: May 2009
Location: London
Age: 31
Posts: 26
I recommend doing the ATPL first if you're doing it here in Europe (EASA). It's what I'm doing. I miss the crap out of flying, but that way I concentrate on my ATPL exams. Remember that here it's 14 exams, not 2, like in the US. Also, that way when I get back to flying, it'll 100% of the time flying and no huge delays between flight sessions. This will keep me fresh and up to date. I recommend you do the same.
@Funnydreadlocks That's exactly what I am doing. I finished my ATPL's almost not flying for a year until now. I just need around 5 - 6 hours to get back up to speed before I head off to Phoenix to do my hour building. That way I can fly full time wherever I decide to do my CPL/ME/IR.

@ Lakhan I will most probably do my IR first too. Reason being, I think it will give me more flexibility on the weather when flying the aircraft.
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Old 9th Jan 2014, 13:16
  #48 (permalink)  
Join Date: May 2009
Location: HKG
Age: 44
Posts: 992
Would I need to also do the JOC course and MCC over there, or is that yet another EASA add on?
That is an EASA thing. In the states it is more of a gradual building up to it. Guys in Europe can end up in the right seat of a 737/320 fresh out of flight school so it does make sense. Don't read that as likely to end up there, most do not.

In the states your first job would more than likely be in a single engine piston requiring no additional training other than with the operator. If its over 200hp you need to do a short, couple of hours, training with ground school to be qualified to fly a high performance aircraft.

If it is pressurized a similar course.

You would, after those two short courses be qualified to fly almost anything up to 12,500lbs with piston or turboprop engines.

After that it is a type rating for a specific type.

Most in the US start either instructing or skydive flying or similar light piston job for a year or two. Then cargo or pax (right seat or left depending on experience) in a bigger piston twin or turboprop. Then right seat in bizjet or regional. Then a larger airline.

It is a path you can expect to follow if you are driven and have the aptitude.

In Europe its a lucky few that get into an airline straight away, a few other lucky ones get a job in a prop plane. Most do not end up working, try to stay current for a few years then give up. This is the reality of the situation in the EU, you may be lucky so its a gamble you have to decide weather or not to take.
SloppyJoe is offline  
Old 9th Jan 2014, 15:37
  #49 (permalink)  
Join Date: Apr 2013
Location: Now on Earth
Posts: 47
Hourbuilding Advice In Florida( Yes another proverbial thread)

Greetings Male, Female & Inbetweeners,

Lurker in need of some hour building tips on that note please bless me with some gems! To summarise (after much ardous back & forth with the CAA/FAA over 3-4 months mind you!) I finally walked into my home two night ago after work to find the golden ticket (FAA authorisation letter) waiting for me on the dinnertable. Having given up hope after meaningless exchanges with the relevant orgnaisations, I have finally got the green light to go do some HB out in Florida

Abit of background info avid PPL'er / Aviator enthusiast from the midlands who is currently on a modular (No Mom & Dad bank account) path to the skies. I have a night rating to my name & will have 70 hours (P1) soon (5 hour shy of this feat). Since the weather is proving rather hit & miss I'm just looking to amass the remainder ( 30) out there after which I'll be coming back to do the rest (CPL/IR/MCC etc etc etc). I've already spoken to an outfit & made aircraft hire arrangements (Air America @ DAB).

Leaving 17th Jan 2014
Returning 2nd Feb 2014

My question to the more knowledgeable /experienced/ been there done that PPRuNe folks are:
  • What do I need to REALLY know/ Be AWARE off flying out there (will be flying form Daytona as thats where my FBO is based)???
  • Can I get those 30 hours within a 13 day period i.e is that a feasible goal to hold onto?
  • Equipment wise i.e charts/maps/ guides etc do I need to purchase these over here or can I just get them over there?
  • Overall any hints/tips/cheats would be much appreciated fellas e.g places to fly/tourist hotspots to visit (time permitting ofcourse)?
  • Any resourceful online links in relation to flying Stateside?
Thanking contributors in advance.

Right I'm off to go salvage a Gopro & renew that Skydemon subscription
Exiled Martian is offline  
Old 9th Jan 2014, 22:57
  #50 (permalink)  
Join Date: May 2011
Location: Italy, Milano
Posts: 29
I did 50 hours in 10 days with Air America in Daytona Beach 2 months ago. Nice place, nice planes, nice prices with some relaxed guys to take care of you :-)

Before you go I would study the airspaces and rules and what else is relevant to conduct a flight in the US. Daytona Beach can be quite busy at times so make sure you know the most important differences on the radio phraseology.
When your going to fly on your own just pick up VFR flight following and all the nice controllers will help you out no matter where you go. Flying in US is fantastic and in Florida in particular they are used to foreigners flying around. and is great websites to get weather and all the information you need for your flights.

When you get to Daytona go to the Daytona Pilot Zone shop and you can buy everything you will need to a good price.

Regarding your 13 day limit I think it should be enough. But when I was there the weather was pretty bad - mostly IFR weather so I was only able to do my hours that fast because I had my FAA IR.

There are plenty of great places to go in Florida. All the big airports are always good fun and of course Key West + all the coast airport like Miami, Ft Lauderdale, Boca Raton, West Palm Beach is also really nice places to land and get a crew car
Marchisio is offline  
Old 10th Jan 2014, 10:05
  #51 (permalink)  
Join Date: Apr 2013
Location: Now on Earth
Posts: 47
50 houirs in 10 days??? Nice work mate...logbook well fattened I see!

Firstly many thanks for taking time out to give me alot of insightful information regarding hourbuilding out in FL (KDAB) & also for those resourceful website links.

Unfortunately I've suffered a drastic setback in form of some major car trouble last night (Lady Luck is not a fan I guess) on the way back from work & apparently THE POWER of my wallet is the only one true remedy.

Sigh... first world problems eyyyy So yes after a new engine I will look to reattempt Project Florida hopefully back end of Feb/early March (24th Feb -7th March instead) from the looks of things fiscally speaking.

By then I should also have hit 70Hr P1 & have done my ME rating, so I seek solace in knowing that I'll be certified to have two props at my disposal for when I go out there.

Again gratitude for the advice bestowed.....I will be sure to revert back to your post when the time is near, already made a note of those destinations you mentioned bud
Exiled Martian is offline  
Old 10th Jan 2014, 15:49
  #52 (permalink)  
Join Date: Dec 2013
Location: United Kingdom
Posts: 7

@SloppyJoe - thanks for the consistency and quality of your posts. Really helpful !

I have since been in contact with the two flying school in ABQ and have been given the below costs. (I'm hoping we are allowed to discuss costs on here )

Private Pilot - $7,000
Instrument Rating - $6,000
Commercial Pilot with time building - $30,000

Private - $8000.00 to $10,000.00
instrument rating -$10,000 to $15,000 (due to the required cross-country PIC requirement)
commercial pilot license -$10,000 to $15,000

Athough they arent too farflung and amount to similar total cost, it seems to me that a considerable amount could be saved by, say, doing PPL & IR at DelSol, and CPL and Bode.!

Can anyone comment on the above prices, and would the above suggestion of utlising both schools to minimise total investment be a wise one???
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Old 11th Jan 2014, 13:57
  #53 (permalink)  
Join Date: Oct 2013
Location: London
Posts: 156
Exiled Martian,

If you haven't already I recommend posting in the North America forum about good airfields nearby. I'm off to Long beach in March, posted a request in there and got dozens of suggestions from locals.

Straighten Up is offline  
Old 16th Jan 2014, 16:25
  #54 (permalink)  
Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: Portugal
Age: 41
Posts: 44

I'll be in Miami next March.
Hour building nearby which one do you recommend most?
ATA, FlyMiami?

Thanks in advance.
LPVL is offline  
Old 20th Jan 2014, 17:09
  #55 (permalink)  
Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: Portugal
Age: 41
Posts: 44
Can you please provide some advise on below request?
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Old 30th Jan 2014, 16:53
  #56 (permalink)  
Join Date: Feb 2001
Location: UK
Posts: 424
Sorry if this is a bit off thread but can anyone recommend a club/school for a bit of recreational flying in the Orlando area. Maybe a taildragger?
BBK is offline  
Old 11th Feb 2014, 12:40
  #57 (permalink)  
Join Date: Oct 2013
Location: London
Posts: 156
Hour Building (USA - Master thread)

Just to refresh this thread - anyone heading to California in March? It would be nice to meet up with some fellow hour builders.
Straighten Up is offline  
Old 11th Feb 2014, 12:56
  #58 (permalink)  
Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: Portugal
Age: 41
Posts: 44
I'm heading to Miami, FL in March.
No idea yet about schools I will contact... Any help?
LPVL is offline  
Old 15th Feb 2014, 12:36
  #59 (permalink)  
Join Date: Jun 2001
Location: FLORIDA
Posts: 235
bbk you could try Traxair at ORL or if nearer Crosswind at SFB. A guy in Spruce creek does tailwheel training. I take it that as your are flight crew you have an FAA license. (needed for solo rental)
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Old 17th Feb 2014, 07:37
  #60 (permalink)  
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: Seoul
Posts: 141
Exiled Martian, I'm going to KDAB 24Feb-> as well. I did my PPL there last summer, if you need any suggestions/company while building hours let me know.
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