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Cheapest Modular training order

Old 23rd Sep 2013, 20:28
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Cheapest Modular training order

Evening all, go easy on me, this is my first thread.

I know that this has been done to death on this forum through all the research I've been doing but I was looking at the best way to structure my modular training from zero to fATPL in order to save time.. But more importantly money.

So I will list my plan here as it might help serve other wannabes alike and also I would greatly appreciate any professional advice and criticism (please).

The bit of paper aprox hours

PPL (Incl. night rating) - 50
ATPL theory
Hour building - 80
MEP rating - 6
Instrument rating - 55
CPL - 15
MCC. -20


Please tell me where I have gone wrong, as no doubt there is something I could make better here. The logic behind the order is that I get all the relevant bits of paper (MEP, IR) before the CPL so that they are all included in CPL minimum hours, meaning less hour building required.

Thank you for taking the time to read all this and any help/advice is greatly appreciated.

Last edited by newb1112; 23rd Sep 2013 at 21:39.
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Old 23rd Sep 2013, 20:36
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It's a tough world for normal low-houred CPL holders with about 230 hours and you want to finish your training with even less hour?

As you say, you want to go for the modular route, hence you can manage the whole thing and work in the meanwhile.

Go for the classic modular route, seriously.

You could also give a look at Long Beach Flying Club. To that you have to add the conversion of your CPL and IR but there are cheap but very reputable places where to do that, such as Kalmar in Sweden or Iceland.
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Old 23rd Sep 2013, 21:07
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The classic modular route doesn't work any more. Due to the fact you have to have 200hours before sitting the test.

Also you haven't factored the sim hours in that lot which don't count for anything really in the grand scope of things.

And cheap isn't always best in training.
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Old 23rd Sep 2013, 21:18
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Edit: Mad jock beat me to it

I think OP is correct, do the CPL last and save money. The 'old modular route' is expensive now thanks to EASA changes (you need 200hrs to commence CPL training, where previously it was 200hrs for skills test). The reason we all go modular is to save money! Baring in mind that unusually cheap training does occasionally mean poor training.

Also, the difference between having 200 and 230 hours is nothing and won't make the tiniest difference in having a job.

Couple of things though newb1112:

Sim time doesn't count towards total time. So your 20 hours MCC and 40 hours of sim in the IR won't count towards your 200hours for CPL. Can you even do an MCC without a CPL?

Exactly how you are going to structure this, I don't know as this EASA change is pretty new and I never experienced it. It seems like a lot more than 80 hours to build, I estimate roughly 120-130hrs. But chances are you won't do a PPL in minimum hours

Last edited by pudoc; 23rd Sep 2013 at 21:20.
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Old 23rd Sep 2013, 21:18
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You need to do a bit more looking into minimum P1 (Pilot in command) hours required for CPL issue it used to be 100hrs P1.

Also and this is my personal point of view, although flicking through the brochures it looks ok what you put, in reality doing the IR before CPL is not a good idea. The IR is a massive step up in piloting skill base from CPL which is why the traditional method is CPL MEP IR as it builds up up gradually.

Also stick to one school for the CPL MEP and IR
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Old 23rd Sep 2013, 21:38
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Thank you all for the responses. All the help is appreciated and it will all be taken in.

Vone rotate: Surley by doing the CPL first I will have to do a lot more hour building to get up to 100pic 200tt, this all costs

Mad jock & pudoc: thanks for setting me straight about sim time, looks like a lot more hour building is required, but that's half the fun not sure in the exact structure yet, just trying to establish an order and I will move from there

RedbullGaveMeWings: thanks, but I think I'm looking to stay UK based

NB: When I refered to 'cheapest' training I simply meant the order in which I did everything to satisfy minimums and spend as little as possible hour building, I still aim to study at the most reputable schools and do ME/IR/CPL all at the same place

Again thank you all
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Old 23rd Sep 2013, 21:38
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Vone it just doesn't work that way these days unless you do an additional 25 hours hour building.

I did IR first then did the CPL in the twin in min hours. In someway's doing the CPL in a twin is a lot easier after doing the IR.

And in the old days it wasn't 200 hours to sit the test it was only for license issue. You could sit it before that and let the IR hours take you up to 200.

150 hours to start the CPL course. With MEP passed and night training done if doing IR first.

I did the old FNPT I route so was 40 hours in the aircraft then 15 for the CPL And started the FI when I hit 200 hours.

Some of the FNPT II pilots had to do 10-20 hours before submitting.

You can use some of the sim hours towards license issue but you will have to check. But after you have the license they count for nothing when applying for jobs.

Last edited by mad_jock; 23rd Sep 2013 at 21:49.
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Old 24th Sep 2013, 07:26
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Read from IN-2013/116

2.3
With the coming into force of EU...... This means that the candidate must have at least 200 hours flight time prior to taking the skills test.

Hi,

To my understanding (please correct me if I am wrong as I am near the CPL Course stage!). You could easily do the PPL (50 ish hours), Hour Build (120 hours), start the CPL ME with 170 hours in the bag (which would save money by not doing the MEP rating separately?) and be ready to sit the exam upon reaching 200 TT as it is doubtful to do the course in the minimum 28hours?!

In my opinion it is fun to do a little hour building in a different country, different environment, chart designs, UNICOM! IMC Rating is also a blast and a good warm up for IR and provides peace of mind when flying in the UK, unless you will do the IR after completing the theory before 170 hours.

Best of luck
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Old 24th Sep 2013, 15:40
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kerfuffle

Someone help me out here please!

According to CAP 804 Section 4 Part L:
(CPL modular)

Before commencing the flight training the applicant shall:
(a) have completed 150 hours flight time;
(b) have complied with the prerequisites for the issue of a class or type rating for
multi-engine aeroplanes in accordance with Subpart H, if a multi-engine
aeroplane is to be used on the skill test.

Quoting Pudoc,
(you need 200hrs to commence CPL training, where previously it was 200hrs for skills test)
Lets say you do all training in minimum hours, you're going to finish CPL with around 170 hours. Then commence IR which bumps it over 200 and therefore an issue of the CPL? Which I believe is the old way?

But now it's saying: PPL(50) H.B 150+, then you can start your CPL? Don't think so....

Pudoc/MJ explain please.

Pudoc, your wording might have confused me.

Last edited by Lakhan; 24th Sep 2013 at 15:43.
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Old 24th Sep 2013, 18:07
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yep I was wrong.

You need 200 hours to sit the test. Not to start the course

So you can start the course at 150 hours but only sit the test when you have 200.

You only get the reduction of hours for the IR when you have passed the CPL test (or you did in the old days)

So now its better to do the IR first which is then 55 hours onto the 150 so 205, then 15 hours on top of that for the CPL. But you can start the IR before 150 hours so you can still work it that you can sit your CPL test bang on 200 hours.
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Old 24th Sep 2013, 19:57
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How many hours does a CPL course include usually? Does it mean that I would have to build a little bit more hours just to take the skill test as it requires 200 hours TT?
To that, I would have to add at least 45 hours for the IR?

245 hours TT without ME and MCC???

That's why it is suggested to change the order now?

I am currently training for my PPL and will have to make some choices soon.
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Old 24th Sep 2013, 20:05
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Sorry I was wrong also.

200hrs for license issue previously. It has recently changed and now, according to mad_jock (I honestly can't remember), 200hrs to sit the skills test.

Basically it's more advantageous to do CPL last.
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Old 24th Sep 2013, 20:34
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Well, at the end you always finish with around 240 hours if you start from a base of 150 hours on SEP aircraft.
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Old 24th Sep 2013, 20:52
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But you don`t have to.

You can start your IR before 150 hours.

ME is usually done as part of hour building.

And forget about MCC its a tick box course which doesn`t count for any hours in the grand scope of things.
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Old 3rd Oct 2013, 12:00
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So now....

This is how I see it now.

After building some hours go for SE IR. Then complete your CPL and acquire an ME rating for the Multi IR? Which I think you would need to do about 5 hours on aircraft and some on FNPT. Not sure

Or. Go for CPL, complete it, start IR, then after 200 hour mark do CPL skills test, then finish off IR?

Or, build hours, ME, IR then finish off with CPL. (On SE?)

This last option is probably the way...

Comments?
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Old 3rd Oct 2013, 12:31
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Yes an no

For me it was a no brainer after 1 hour on the SEP CPL.

You have just spent 55 hours flying a twin on the IR.

Most of the exercises are the same as the IR but without the screens up.

And the go-around with engine failure you have been doing under screens and visually is a load easier.

And in the twin you just fly every where with a ground speed of 120 knots which makes nav easy.

Now if you go back onto the SEP you have to get back into Single engine work with PFL's glide approaches, EFATO etc. Which do rely a bit on luck on the day that you get it right and mother nature doesn't throw you a wild card.

where as the twin is a lot more fly it on the numbers and it will work.

It doesn't effect your license what you do it in ie if you do it in the twin that doesn't limit you to only flying commercially in a twin.
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Old 3rd Oct 2013, 15:19
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In the past (maybe currently today) students were doing SE CPL then moving onto ME and MEIR.
MJ I felt you had mixed feelings in your last post. Are you saying that SE CPL is the way to go? I don't see myself doing another 25 hour or so on the Multi for CPL when you can easily do it on SE . Plus the fact that it costs more.
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Old 3rd Oct 2013, 19:52
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You don't though you only do 15 hour CPL course after the IR. And that can be as many or as little hours in the twin as you like.

And I definitely was glad I didn't have to do PFL's and glide approaches etc.

When you have a look at the price of a complex single its not that far off a twin.

And because your not having to practise the SEP stuff you can do 10 hours in a none complex then do a couple of test prep trips in the twin then sit the test. And the test ends up shorter by about 30mins because you fly faster and the only exercise you have to do is an engine failure on go-around followed by a single engine circuit. And as an added bonus it resets your MEP class rating which you can't do on your initial IR but only when you renew it.

For me I think the price was only 400 quid more expensive. But I had over 50 hours logged in the twin when finished. But this is some years ago now.

if you think about it your paying a lot of money to learn a skill you will never use. ie commercially flying a single engine complex piston. The skills I learned twin flying I use every day at work and have to show I can do them every 6 months on check.

Learning how to do PFL's and glide approaches in a single complex was just plain stupidity to me at the time. And to be honest over the last 10 years I have never regretted missing out on it.

Last edited by mad_jock; 3rd Oct 2013 at 19:58.
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Old 7th Oct 2013, 17:58
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In order to sum things up, if I got it right,
doing the SE CPL before ME and IR its still the way to go...
right????
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Old 7th Oct 2013, 18:38
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Wrong

HOur build and get the ME out of the way, you need to have a pass in your hand before sitting the SPA-ME-IR flight test.

Do your IR and pass it.

Then do your CPL in either an SEP or MEP your choice of 15 hours.

Then try and get your timing right so that you finish the CPL course bang on 200 hours TT then sit your CPL test. Factor in a hour build of 5 hours or so to get your hours up at the end and you can either then use it for additional training or go practise a nav-x by yourself.

Also find out if the school requires a separate 170A flight check for the CPL. You don't actually need it but some will make you do it anyway. And make sure you have factored it in when computing your 200 hours.
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