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My dream - advice please (collective thread)

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My dream - advice please (collective thread)

Old 9th Jan 2024, 15:00
  #561 (permalink)  
 
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Hello everybody!

I'm 28 and from Hungary. I'm currently doing my PPL with around 30-ish hours, and have been working inside and close to the aviation industry for a long time now.
I would like to finish my PPL and after that my dream is to be flying biz jets (Or the Ryanair/Wizzair route is fine by me as well). I will soon have around 30.000 EUR of funds availabel for me.
I wish to ask for your advice on my next steps.
  • I have an option to take an integrated post-gradual school with Govermental funds (interest free) which can be started to be paid back when I'm working.
    It costs around 63.000 EUR and the funds can be payed fully with this governmental fund.
    The School is Airwin Budapest, which is close to where I live now. It provides 239 flight hours with AUPRT+APS MCC. Of course no type rating.
  • The second option is of course the modular route for which I will have around 30.000 EUR. I have read it is not enough for the whole PPL to cockpit route
My questions are following:
Is it possible to land a job in the EU for a biz jet with around 240 Hours fresh out of integrated school?
If not, how much money would I need to have for a 737 type rating, or is it possible to bond with RYR another airline in the EU?
I know it's not this thread but if you wish you can share your 2 cents, if you think it's possible for a PPL to cockpit route modula from 30.000 EUR.

Thank you in advance,
Adam
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Old 9th Jan 2024, 20:39
  #562 (permalink)  

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Is it possible to land a job in the EU for a biz jet with around 240 Hours fresh out of integrated school?
Unless you either know someone, namely the person who owns the jet, or you can bring something else to the table, it is practically impossible for a low houred pilot to get a job on a bizjet. Usual numbers are a min of 1500 hours, 500 multipilot, ATPL and in many cases, experience on type or similar operations.

Looking around Europe at the moment, most jobs involve A320 series of aircraft. Boeing's having a bit of a time at the moment. Buying a rating does come with it's own pitfalls. They are very expensive to keep current...
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Old 12th Jan 2024, 13:19
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Originally Posted by redsnail

Looking around Europe at the moment, most jobs involve A320 series of aircraft. Boeing's having a bit of a time at the moment. Buying a rating does come with it's own pitfalls. They are very expensive to keep current...
Thanks for your answer! Do you think a lot of companies offer bonded or financed type ratings?
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Old 23rd Mar 2024, 19:26
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Hi guys,

Iím 17 years old, Iím from Poland and Iíve been really doing research about flight schools, ways of becoming a pilot etc. Iím planning on going the ATPL integrated in an airline academy program (Iíve got some choices) once I graduate high school but my question is, because I donít want to do anything else in life and never wanted should I go to university/college? I mean I guess you donít need a degree to be a commercial pilot and it sure does provide some stability and a plan B but im technically guaranteed a job.
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Old 24th Mar 2024, 11:37
  #565 (permalink)  

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AD27 It depends on what you're bringing to the table. If you have extensive relevant experience etc, you might get bonded. It does depend on the company. If you're a freshly minted CPL, then there's a good chance you'll have to finance the rating either up front or with a reduced salary for a while. Companies that historically have a higher turnover of staff tend to expect you to finance the rating.

@320
Will the university or college degree saddle you with debt? If so, don't bother. A degree with no experience is pretty useless after a couple of years. Being able to drive a forklift or a semi trailer is probably more useful than a degree as a back up plan.

Last edited by redsnail; 24th Mar 2024 at 11:38. Reason: Wrong 320.
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Old 24th Mar 2024, 11:41
  #566 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by 320_
Hi guys,

Iím 17 years old, Iím from Poland and Iíve been really doing research about flight schools, ways of becoming a pilot etc. Iím planning on going the ATPL integrated in an airline academy program (Iíve got some choices) once I graduate high school but my question is, because I donít want to do anything else in life and never wanted should I go to university/college? I mean I guess you donít need a degree to be a commercial pilot and it sure does provide some stability and a plan B but im technically guaranteed a job.
You're lucky. You have rich parents. Get the degree as well.
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Old 24th Mar 2024, 12:14
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Originally Posted by redsnail
Unless you either know someone, namely the person who owns the jet, or you can bring something else to the table, it is practically impossible for a low houred pilot to get a job on a bizjet. Usual numbers are a min of 1500 hours, 500 multipilot, ATPL and in many cases, experience on type or similar operations.

Looking around Europe at the moment, most jobs involve A320 series of aircraft. Boeing's having a bit of a time at the moment. Buying a rating does come with it's own pitfalls. They are very expensive to keep current...
Hey matey, just weigh the risks of each option and do as you please. There are a lot of factors to take into account though.

What I can say is that many people your age are unsure about their career paths; it's part of growing up. Dreaming of being a pilot might seem like a way to avoid choosing between unexciting career options, but most of us have probably faced the same dilemma.

Unfortunately, only a fortunate few land a job shortly after completing flight school. For the others it can become a real challenge and take a while. Some even end up completely outside of aviation. In between, it can be a long, tough grind, both mentally and financially, especially if you wind up in a low-skilled job.

Remember, there are no guarantees in aviation. I've seen it firsthand. People get turned down during initial training, type rating, OCC, LIFUS, you name it, for various reasons—poor performance, airlines shutting down, or industry shifts. Just imagine being told, "Sorry, your OCC is canceled; we don't need flight crew right now." (I've seen it!) And that example is a few years ahead, while you're just starting out.

We all tend to believe that those things won't happen to us, and perhaps they won't happen to you. But it's definitely something worth considering.

So, here's my advice (aside from finances): take some time to mature, think about what interests you beyond aviation, and consider pursuing a degree in that area. At 17, even if you only earn a Bachelor's degree, you'll still be just 20. That's quite young to start flight training.
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Old 24th Mar 2024, 12:57
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Originally Posted by redsnail
@320
Will the university or college degree saddle you with debt? If so, don't bother. A degree with no experience is pretty useless after a couple of years. Being able to drive a forklift or a semi trailer is probably more useful than a degree as a back up plan.
I agree that the depth is something to consider. However, in Northern Europe, having a degree, even without experience, can pay off. Many entry-level white-collar jobs require candidates to have a bachelor's degree, so not having one could put you at the bottom of the pile. It could be especially beneficial if you live in a country that has a considerably bigger pay gap between white-collar and blue-collar jobs. I don't know if that holds true for Poland though.

Looking ahead, I see having a Plan B as a long term, and not just a short-term solution. If you never land that flying job, working as a forklift driver might not offer much in terms of career advancement or mental stimulation, unless, of course, driving a forklift is your true aspiration..

Personally, I'm biased for getting a degree. I did it myself before starting flight training and it worked out great. It gave me a nice paycheck, valuable experience, a strong CV, and the peace of mind that if I lost my job in the deck tomorrow, I'd be back in an office next week.
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Old 24th Mar 2024, 21:52
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You're lucky. You have rich parents. Get the degree as well.
I'm not "My parents gave me 61k for flight training" rich (or at least not the full price). I was thinking about financing the integrated training with a loan or for example a another route, going to the Wizzair academy program or something simmilar if even exists which takes away from your paycheck to fund it, as far as I've read.

No degree and with a loan, that already sounds pretty bad.

Last edited by 320_; 25th Mar 2024 at 15:40.
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Old 25th Mar 2024, 11:21
  #570 (permalink)  

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Hi African_TrouserSnake My caveat with the degree is the "no experience" bit. Sounds like you got a job relevant to the degree. Great. That's ideal especially if you can pay off the student loan (if you needed one). I got both my degrees while working I haven't missed student life as I worked at a university for 8 years paying for my flight training. Fun times indeed.
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Old 25th Mar 2024, 15:36
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Personally, I'm biased for getting a degree. I did it myself before starting flight training and it worked out great. It gave me a nice paycheck, valuable experience, a strong CV, and the peace of mind that if I lost my job in the deck tomorrow, I'd be back in an office next week.
I tend to agree. More education is never a bad thing, and you never know where you can put your degree skills to use in aviation. Many pilots end up in the office at some point in their career, where suddenly those stats and creative and technical writing courses begin to make more sense. For some, like me, education becomes a hobby in its own right, so having a degree or two is nothing more than the end result of that hobby. I'd argue that in many ways it's a pretty cheap hobby compared to others, but I digress.

Not all degrees are created equal if you are looking to simply pad your resume. Just because you have a degree in a field does not mean you can immediately return to that field should you find yourself an out-of-work pilot, which is what most suggest is the reason for getting the degree. Many degrees are useless after only a few years if you don't continue to study or work in the related field. Therefore, my typical suggestion is to get a generalized degree that you could build upon in the future, but not so specific that you may as well not hold that degree later five or ten years later. Alternatively, you could mix your passions. We have two pilots at my airline who hold doctorates and who split their time 50/50 between flying and research, and many more who have built a business around their education or who continue to study so they can use their degree later on.
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Old 27th Mar 2024, 15:38
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Originally Posted by +TSRA
Not all degrees are created equal if you are looking to simply pad your resume. Just because you have a degree in a field does not mean you can immediately return to that field should you find yourself an out-of-work pilot, which is what most suggest is the reason for getting the degree. Many degrees are useless after only a few years if you don't continue to study or work in the related field.
Yeah, I partially agree. In fields like STEM, having recent or enough past experience matters. But it's not as black-and-white as some make it out to be. Having a degree doesn't just become useless after a few years.

You've likely come across vacancies that read requirements like: "Bachelor’s/Master's degree or equivalent practical experience," without specifying the area of study.
Institutions awarding BSc or MSc degrees stick to established procedures and undergo audits to ensure their programs meet certain standards, both nationally and internationally. As a result this allows employers to get an insight of your abilities, whether the company is from Norway or China.

Unfortunately, being a pilot doesn't usually count as equivalent experience. Many pilots w/o a degree have voiced complaints about this on LinkedIn following the pandemic, being limited by such requirements, despite being fully capable of performing the work. Though anecdotal, it might be worth considering in your evaluation.
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Old 8th Apr 2024, 17:26
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Recommended school

Hello guys i have been looking at schools from all the world but its a bit hard to choose.Thats why i made this threat i really need help or someone just giving me advice where and what school is the best and fast to take your INTEGRATED ATPL.I have no experience in aviation but i really wanna become a pilot and learn everything.My budget is around 80.000Ä or a bit more country doesnt matter i just have a quality school with good flying hours and hoping to finish it in 2 years or 2 and half.Thank you guys in Advance
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Old 9th Apr 2024, 13:35
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Hi guys, what do you think of training in Poland ? Do you recommand ?
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Old 14th Apr 2024, 11:58
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go for it! To my mind with the salaries you will eventually end up getting the risk in your situation is fairly low. Otherwise you might regret not having tried it before itīs too late.

All aircraft manufacturer predict massive pilot shortages for the upcoming decades. Someone has to fly all the aircraft that are being ordered. Additionally the baby boomer are retiring. All good arguments you will get a job one day.
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