SA training questions (merged)

[Phoebe Buffet]

Albi: I suggest you do a 'reccie' trip to SA and check out a few schools. I know it sounds expensive (approx $350 for return airfare, however accom and food and intercity travel is cheap in SA) but that is the only way you will find a school that suits you.

SA has fantastic flying and gave me my start in aviation - I later converted to JAA ATPL .

Whatever you decide I wish you the best.

[Phoebe Buffet]

Its as safe as anywhere these days if you take sensible precautions like locking cars and houses windows etc etc. I never drove anywhere near the 'dodgy' areas in Joey and always rented accom with panic buttons and guards which is standard.

Just common sense really.

Fantastic flying:- south is extremely beautiful with mountains desert and whale watching, east also great Durban really fun place and Joey good experience for traffic and ATC.

[scroggs]

To drag up one 3-year-old topic is unusual; to drag up two on the same subject is wasteful. Hence the merge.

Scroggs

[birdlady]

All very sensible advice. I did my PPL here in SA and am currently in the middle of my exams for CPL. With regard to crime - common sense prevails but just a few other pointers. If you need a car, find the dodgiest looking car you can (but still goes and wont break down) Ive had 2 attempted hijackings already and both times were not in my old banger but someone elses nice car. If you go out at night, go out as a group and get one person to drive. The more people in the car the less likely your going to get hijacked. It happens everywhere, not just the bad areas and even during the day. Always be aware. Dont worry about the wild animals its the two legged ones you have to be aware of. At night, just be aware that you dont have to stop for a red light after a certain time. (check coast is clear but not everyone does this).
Other than that Sa is great to train and very cheap in comparison. Ive heard excellent reports about 43 (if a little pricey) and Algoa. www.avcom.co.za is an excellent site.

[Gunship]

Crime in SA

Just for the ill-informed : I do not deny that there are no crime - there are (same as everywhere in the world I have been).

To say

It happens everywhere, not just the bad areas and even during the day.

is false and a miss - conception created in SA.

Touch wood (and I am sure we are blessed but we are not the only one's).

All our family lives in Pretoria - Midrand and Johannesburg. Me and the wife together have 11 brothers and sisters. Our parents still lives in Pretoria. We have - what can I say quite a large friendship circle coming over 45 years -I am talking 100's of people from various parts of the country and various walks of live.

We have not had a single (yes not ONE) serious crime of ANY nature on any of our family members or friends - not one !!! Think about that afte ryou read above.

False :

Joey and always rented accom with panic buttons and guards which is standard.

What bull ! Between ALL these people (including millionares and multi-millionares and some living in so -called crime hot spots) - not ONE has a guard "as standard".

Yes at shops / factory sites etc we have security guards (same as rest of the world) but at houses - what utter bull !

Sorry just had to put it in record.

Enjoy South Africa - it is a great place with great people - just stay out of known crime - areas - same as you do in London / NY / wherever ... be alert and that is it.

Cheers,

Gunsss

[Ibanez]

Gunsss, I wish I could agree with you on that, but sadly, everyone seems to touch wood untill it happens to them one day, and then you realise that the crime issues are for real. I was involved in an armed robbery (on the victim side!) in an upper class restaurant in Midrand. Like you, I have friends and family all over South Africa, and unfortunately we were not as lucky as your family. That, together with the current state of the SAAF, has pushed me north of the equator, and I'm not looking back.

SA is a beautiful country with BEAUTIFUL woman and it's cheap to get into the air. However, to anyone attempting to fly in SA, my personal recomendation would be to stay out of the Midrand, Johannesburg and Pretoria area and look further south towards the Cape. If you ignore the wind - the Cape grows on you!

Just my pennies worth - I.

[porridge]

Sorry Gunss as an ex Jo'eys resident of most of my teens and adult life I have to agree with Birdlady and Ibanez; Gauteng is not a place I'd relish going back to. As for flying and personal safety I much prefer the Eastern Cape and Cape Town area compared with 'Gangster Paradys'as Leon Shuster so aptly calls it!

[Gunship]

Gents and lady,

I do not wnat to distract from the question re SA training and therefore my last post on the issue.

All I wish to say is not to generalise the issue.

Maybe we are overblessed - maybe we are just too careful or just purely good luck.

As I said - we are the only family members that lives outside Gangtsers paradise) - yes we live in the Cape.

My sister works in Midrand - she is beautiful - drives a hot liitle car - phoning while she drives - leaves handbag on the seat - I have seen it - touch wood nothing.

I went as far as asking all our family members (11 + 4 adults) if they know or have been directly involved in serious crime.

The same sister said a colluege (?spelling) was held at gunpoint and her car taken away plus money and her cellphone.

Stangely she was black and it happened in Sandton during the day in a parking lot.

Yes call it luck or whatever - I really feel sorry if you have been hit my crime and I know we are blessed but do not generalise things and come up with bull like "Guards that are standard".

I will however override my one statement - yes I know one person that had a guard and that was that . Yes he was Sir Mark - now moved.

New people in the house and the "guardhouse" are empty

Cheers and good luck to those that want to come - you will not be sorry. Just go to a reputable school. I personally would have chosen George or 43 air school or Stellenbosch.

Gunss

[silverknapper]

Guns

Any chance you are just a bit biased. To suggest that Jo'burg/midrand are places with normal crime levels is ludicrous.

Yes at shops / factory sites etc we have security guards (same as rest of the world)

Maybe shopping centres here have guards but they sure as hell don't carry shotguns.

but at houses - what utter bull

Perhaps individual houses don't, but they are inside walled compunds with guards and regular patrols. The house I lived in in Midrand had electric fences and guards. Ask my fellow student who was hit over the head with an iron bar for his shoes.
Stay out of known crime areas is good advice - unfortunately that applies to Gauteng. Get down to the coast instead.

[Gunship]

Again wise words ...

Stay out of known crime areas is good advice - unfortunately that applies to Gauteng.

It is people like this - that think because they are white / european and that they can roam the streets that gives us a bad name with crime.

Come on ... I will not walk around the Getto's .. so why do people not listen ?

Belgium Girl Gang Raped in Black Township

SK - ok then your house is the second one with a guard (other than Ministers and so on) that I know off.

Seen security guards with guns throughout the world mate.

Call me biast what you want - I am also a realist and do not believe in all I read online or in a newspaper.

BAd news sells !

[silverknapper]

It is people like this - that think because they are white / european and that they can roam the streets that gives us a bad name with crime.

So are you saying we shouldn't be able to walk the streets without worrying about being beaten over the head with an iron bar for our shoes?
The reason you have a bad name for crime is because you deserve it - nothing else. Most people I know over there accept this and are honest with people about the FACTS. There are exceptions to every rule.

[Leezyjet]

I did my PPL at Algoa at Port Elizabeth back in March/April.

Couldn't recommend them enough. Great club, great bunch of people too, with plenty of drinking after hours in the Gremlin's Grotto.

The flying is good, flying from a 'proper' airport mixing with commercial traffic, but it's not so busy that you spend ages holding like at CPT. Circuit is usually pretty quiet too unlike the dedicated training airfields like Port Alfred etc.

The location is pretty good, with weather similar to a UK summer and it's a good place to get used to x-winds too.

[Hobgoblin]

I am looking at doing 100 to 150 hrs in SA within the next couple of months.

I have experience of a couple of Flight Schools down there already and am looking for a good deal.

For various reasons I am not going back to the ones I've been at.

Cape Flying Services- good school, had a good time there but unfortunately I am going to be based in Pta to save cash.

Wonderboom Flying School- very good instructor in Richard Thornton, but unfortunately the school closed down a long time ago.

I also have experience with another outfit at Wonderboom but am not going back to them, 'nuff said.

Can anyone recommend anybody specific who has good aircraft availability ( I prob'ly will want to hog the aerie for about two weeks cramming in as many hours as possible!)

Alternatively if you know of someone who can rent me his C-150, C-172 or PA 28 ( 140 - 180) for a good price I'd appreciate it.

Thanks

[Phoebe Buffet]

Gunship: The original question was 'Is it safe & secure in SA?' by Murray_NN to which you, a local, posted 'Belgian girl gang raped in black township' when everyone else was giving constructive helpful advice on how not to court/flirt with danger so as to avoid that particular unhappy situation.

[LUKESTER]

I am a South African living and working in the UK. Never been affected by crime in SA and would / will go back there to complete my training. I come from the sunny coast of Durban where Natal Flight Centre would be the place I would go back to.

Regarding crime, it's everywhere! I feel more 'uneasy' walking along a road here in the UK after dark with 4 or more youths approaching me than I used to walking home after my shift at a local night club bar at 3am back in SA!! If we going to drag up headlines, how about the Brazilian bloke who was shot for a mistaken identity by coppers! Now if I was anywhere else in the world looking to start a flying course, reading the press would I come to the UK ...... surely not as you get shot by coppers sitting on a tube!!!

Seriously, go to SA and see what you think for yourselves! I have taken many English mates I have met during the past 5 years in the UK back for holidays and they LOVED IT!!!

[Gunship]

Well said LUKESTER

Natal flight centre is a great training instituition in Natal area.

Vivaa die Wie Pie

[sk8erboi]

Well if you love it so much lukester why are you still here? If you feel so uneasy go back to SA.
You have really let yourself down by using such a sensitive argument. That has happened once. You want to talk about bad police lets look at SA. £10 gets you let off with a drink drive charge in places. I know, I've seen it happen to mates.
Would you do a flying course in the UK? Well that depends on where you want to work. Given you are currently living here I think we get a rough idea. Why are you here?
I don't know how this has turned into a tit for tat match. Although looking back some guy decided to tell us all SA is a safe place to live - don't worry about security precautions!!!! Bul it. It is a cool country and I love it very much. But it is also very dangerous, indeed I would go so far as to say some parts are lawless. Even the so called safer parts are a bloody pain. You ever tried getting in a car in Lord St without being surrounded by 30 begging street kids, all of whom are trying to get their hands on your wallet? Every one of my friends in SA would tell you it is dangerous and to be very careful. This guy guns is talking through his a

[Phoebe Buffet]

Lukester: If you feel uneasy about your personal safety and property in UK then I will give you the same advice as I gave Murray (post 12th Aug): lock cars, lock houses and lock windows, don't go driving and walking in dodgy areas - DHL have just released a list of areas they won't deliver to in Uk and when you rent accomodation do so in a 'good' neighbourhood.

If you still feel threatened then a visit to your local police station will give help and advice and I'm sure the SA Embassy will provide details of 'do's and dont's' in a foreign country.

Finally get yourself some medical and life and property insurance.

As for headlines: well who knows why Gunship posted that horrendous story.

I am more than happy to debate/discuss the difference between street violence and national security but I don't think this is the right thread or even forum.

I hope your stay in Uk is a happy, relaxed and crime free one and that you do return to SA to complete your flying training in one piece.

[cavortingcheetah]

The crime is no problem at all, if you approach the matter from the right attitude.

Each time I go back to FAJS, I nip up to the Randburg taxi station and buy an AK47. I tell the taxi drivers to put the word out that the driver of my particular car is now so armed and will willingly and with gleeful anticipation, use the weapon. The bush telegraph works well and within a very few hours my moniker is well known on the reef. No hijacks, no problems, just the occasional grin and a thumbs up from a minibus driver.
Just before I return to wherever I am going, I trade the gun back in. Actually, I sometimes think that my man just keeps the same one for me, time after time.

[Phoebe Buffet]

Cavortingcheetah: Nice one .......'tongue in cheek' reply was a refreshing response to a thread littered with over emotional sickly sweet patriotism.

..............now, to buy that AK47 would euros be acceptable?.