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Uni or not? (Merged 2013)

Old 15th Sep 2016, 15:55
  #141 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Sep 2016
Location: Cairo
Posts: 3
Hey everyone,
I got a similar situation. I'm currently studying for the frozen ATPL, I posses a CPL and an A320 type. Can't find a job though and its been a while. I'm also 21

I'm thinking to get a BS in air transport management from Emirates Aviation University, which would only require 1 year since I will be a frozen ATPL holder.

What do you guys think? Does anyone hold a similar degree that can tell me if its helpful? I know this wouldn't help me to get a pilot job..
Any advice is appreciated and thanks !
squakvfr is offline  
Old 26th Sep 2016, 09:19
  #142 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Sep 2016
Location: Brighton
Posts: 3
There was a useful study done on this recently to work out the difference in cost between going to uni and pilot training.

Degree vs pilot training - how do they compare

It was written by a pilot training school so is probably biased but I think it lays out the costs quite simply! Makes it seem like a no brainer if aviation is in your heart!
rosiew16 is offline  
Old 10th Oct 2016, 01:15
  #143 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jun 2000
Location: Sydney
Posts: 214
The article written by FTA is clearly just self promotion.....buyer beware...

While the airforces of the world do take in 18 year olds, they can choose just the best to start, then scrub 70% of those. The average prospective pilot needs to have a balanced personality and some other life experience can help. A degree from a good university will help build both maturity and technical knowledge...
Seabreeze is offline  
Old 9th Jan 2017, 17:22
  #144 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jan 2017
Location: London
Posts: 1
Aviation studies at uni? (Kingston)

Hey guys, I'm 16 years old and have had a huge passion for flying for many years now and I'm solid sure that I want to persue it as a career. I've looked at some university degrees offering aviation studies like Herts but more specifically Kingston's Aviation studies. Although one thing isn't clear. How is someone studying in uni supposed to keep up with the payments of the ATPL training and Kingston hasn't specified if I must pay in addition to the 9 grand for tuition fees. I'm wondering if anyone can help me with this as someone who got their ATPL with a uni course. My other option is Aerospace Engineering. Should I go to Kingston and should I expect to pay more and around how much for the ATPL. My parents have literally NO money to lend me so will Kingston, or in fact, any university offer a reasonable payment scheme similar to a student loan repayment? Cheers.

Last edited by Nahid125; 10th Jan 2017 at 07:29.
Nahid125 is offline  
Old 24th Jan 2017, 11:30
  #145 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Sep 2013
Location: UK
Posts: 732
Unless you have plenty of money, then university and an ATPL are out - it's one or the other. Average UK university costs are 10K course fees for domiciled students (up to 30k for foreign students) per year, with average living costs of 12pa (15 in London). So, a three year degree outside London is going to cost 66k or more, 4 years will be 88 or more. Then you can factor in the time for lost earnings at university, realistically 30k or more pa, depending on where you end up flying, and the three years less pension contributions and three years more of house price rises before you can consider your first buy... All for a degree you'll never need or use.
Aluminium shuffler is offline  
Old 22nd Mar 2017, 02:02
  #146 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Mar 2017
Location: Australia
Posts: 10
My 2 cents on this is simple - go to university if the job you want to do requires a university degree. IF it doesn't, don't go.

This doesn't change if you want to fly. IF all you're looking for is a job to pay for flying, seriously, learn a trade. If there's a job you'd like to do AS WELL as flying and you can't really decide, then maybe uni. All in all I don't think many people should be heading off to uni at 18.

When I was at school as others have said, everyone was going to uni, you were basically that dumb kid if you weren't at least applying. I had NO idea what I wanted to do, having become too tall to fly. I had a weekend job in macdonalds, and I'd got myself put in charge of kids parties, basically so I didn't have to work in the kitchen. It was easy and I was good at it, so I thought "eh I could probably be a teacher" when everyone was applying and off I went to spend 4 years becoming a teacher. Of the 30 people I really knew on my course, today 2 of them are actually teachers. Of my wife's 6 closest friends, only three work in the field they went to uni for 10 years later.

It's not the debt. If you live in the UK it doesn't really matter. Honestly by the time the government add another tax to your pay check, it's such a small payment you won't notice it. It's the time you waste.

If I could do it over, I'd have chosen electrician. Sure I don't think I'd have stuck with that either, but I'd have been a lot better off. Ultimately it took me 6 years out of university to find my passion other than flying - programming. If i'd known that 15 years ago, sure I'd have done that at university, but I didn't and really I shouldn't have gone.

Don't go to university for a fall back. Go to university to get the job you want. If you don't know what you want now, the student loans comany will still issue you a loan when you're older .... if you've not used one before.
pominaus is offline  
Old 10th Jul 2017, 22:48
  #147 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jul 2016
Location: EU
Posts: 50
What about interview if we are in university? They can refuse us because we are still at university? Like online student or thing like that?
LaGuardia is offline  
Old 12th Jul 2017, 09:33
  #148 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jul 2017
Location: London
Posts: 13
Advice on gaining experience in the aviation industry-whilst saving for training

Hello,

I am an 18 year old fresh from completing A levels and have multiple options in terms of employment/Uni, Im looking for advice on what will benefit me most in achieving the ultimate goal of airline employment .

I currently hold two conditional places at Russell group Universities for Aerospace engineering .

I'm also in the process of applying to Ramp agent/Airfield operations jobs at multiple London airports . I understand these jobs are relatively low paid and will take longer to save the funds required to start training, but my question is will the experience in the aviation industry benefit me over a job in the city paying much more. Or will the other option benefit me more, being go to University, get an engineering degree and gain experience in the aviation industry that way .

Any help would be greatly appreciated .
Arena_33 is offline  
Old 12th Jul 2017, 11:18
  #149 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Dec 2011
Location: UK
Posts: 287
If you're offered engineering at a decent uni then grab it with both hands I would suggest! You can save far quicker and get experience in a well paid field which would work well whilst you're job hunting after finishing training.

All my opinion of course - good luck
average-punter is offline  
Old 12th Jul 2017, 11:42
  #150 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jul 2016
Location: EU
Posts: 50
My own experience, I stopped school to help my family and I started working in a company before finishing my studies this year, I have now finished my studies (A-level) and will start a distance learning for university.
I have now money for my training to start this year. The experience I had at work helped me a lot in my choices. But it's not the same for you, I had to stop to help my parents. It was an obvious choice.
LaGuardia is offline  
Old 12th Jul 2017, 15:28
  #151 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jul 2017
Location: London
Posts: 13
Thank you for the replies .

I will more than likely be going to University, however I would love to be able to start training in 4/5 years rather than in 8 .

What are people's opinions on Air Traffic Controlling for 5/6 years to save for flight training?
Arena_33 is offline  
Old 14th Jul 2017, 21:39
  #152 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Apr 2012
Location: UK
Posts: 212
Air Traffic Controlling (if you go in via NATS) will involve being on a training wage for three years, money goes up quite a bit after that. Financially, I'd say it's better than a uni degree though that's if you're amongst the couple of percent of people that make it in and subsequently pass training. I'm also inclined to think they'll want you to stay for more than a couple of years. I don't know anything about the ATCO/SATCO route I'm afraid.

If you're looking at ramp jobs, take a look at platform jobs on the railway. At my place they earn 25k per year plus final salary pension plus loads of overtime opportunities. There's a bloke at my place who makes about 40k a year on the platforms, he does loads of overtime but if you want to save quickly, it's an option. You could also consider plumbing or something like that, I know a lad who did it for a few years, has a house (in London), spouse and kid at 25.
Chris the Robot is offline  
Old 15th Jul 2017, 17:00
  #153 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jul 2017
Location: London
Posts: 13
Thanks for the replies,
if I get the grades and make my offer I will go to University, if not I'll consider these suggestions .
Arena_33 is offline  
Old 16th Jul 2017, 06:49
  #154 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Dec 2000
Location: Moon
Posts: 188
Arena 33
As had been pointed out it is very difficult to get into NATS as a Trainee Air Traffic Controller. If you did I believe you are bonded to them for five years, however I do not know from which point that starts. Also be aware that you can be posted to any of their units not necessarily the unit of your choice.
Also be aware that if your OJTI's at the unit find out that you are only using them to become a pilot they may get a little bit p*ssed off!
AyrTC is offline  
Old 20th Aug 2017, 10:11
  #155 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: s england
Posts: 182
If you want to be a pilot get the money to train as efficiently as you can. If you want to be an engineer get an engineering degree. If you want to be a test pilot do both.
Now Is a good time to train to fly it maybe a v different story in a few years time. I've worked with pilots with top class aero eng degrees and pilots with psychology degrees. All you need to know about aero eng to be a pilot is in DP Davies book "Handling the big jets". I've never seen a pilot use his eng degree ( except TP ) but I have seen pilots use their psychology degrees writing/presenting CRM courses.
Post 2015 legislation the house building industry have a variety of new regulations that require oversight. Get qualified in some of those and make hay whilst the sun shines. There are parallels with the aviation industry, its quick to get the quals and it pays well / hour. Conducting H and S evaluations/ inspections running your own company will give you life skills and experiences on a par with Uni.
Aero eng requires a lot of v hard work and over a full career as a pilot will cost you up to 500k in fees/loss of earnings ( yes I've done the maths with the BA longevity pay scales ).
I've asked dozens and dozens of uni educated pilots the question if they had their time again would they go to uni. It's 50/50. Of the 50% that would still go their reasoning is that the job market was poor at the time and they valued the experience.
If you want to go to uni then go,just do a logical risk assessment. At least you will have an answer to a pilot interview Q "tell us of a time when you've taken a risk". It's ironic to see candidates struggle at interview answering the risk question when their risk assessment strategy or lack of it is plastered all over their CV in the form of the biggest risk/ benefit decision of their lives thus far.
I'm not anti uni I've supported two kids through it. A good degree from a good uni is vital for a place on some of the grad schemes but a degree in accountancy may not be if you can get onto a fast track programme with one of the major firms post A level. I would question the usefulness of a degree in underwater basket weaving from a uni no ones ever heard of.
sudden twang is offline  
Old 24th Aug 2017, 16:56
  #156 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Oct 2013
Location: Madrid
Posts: 11
Like most of us I've been wanting to be a pilot since pretty much I was born. When I finished school my parents suggested me to enroll in a university to give me better chances of employment and to give me a backup plan in case something bad happens in the future. Let's not forget the pilot's market is very volatile and it can change any day, and also I can't guarantee I'll always be in good health.

I obviously didn't want to follow that path during that time, but I knew it was the right thing to do and now a few years have passed and I hold an engineering degree that gave me the job as a pilot I've always wanted on the first try whilst I've watched people (most of them being 18-19) being turned down for lacking experience. A few years to become the best version of yourself is definitely worth it if in the end you're going to get to your biggest dream, working as a pilot for 30-40 years on which you'll get plenty of flying hours, but this is just my opinion and personal experience.

Best of luck to you all!
777ES is offline  
Old 24th Aug 2017, 19:44
  #157 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jul 2015
Location: Miles away
Posts: 54
If you want to become a pilot - just go and get your licences. Without them you are useless to a company.
University is therefore a waste of time and you will only end up 3 years or so behind your contemporaries.
But if you are unsure about flying for a living, you should reconsider the expense of obtaining a licence, and perhaps then university will give you some breathing space and other career options.
Procrastinus is offline  
Old 25th Aug 2017, 12:36
  #158 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Aug 2017
Location: Prestwick
Posts: 3
Personally I wouldn't be distracted by HE (Uni) if you want to become a pilot.


Most airlines are only asking for 5 GCSEs (most 16 year olds finish with 12 these days).


However some airlines have asked for degrees (Generation easyJet being one for preferred choice stream).


It is important you can demonstrate competency in maths and physics and ultimately this will be needed for ATPL GS.


I Lecture and instruct in a sim (B738). I lecture Aeronautical Engineering and my students have not found it an advantage on application. I do believe it makes you a better pilot though. Not necessarily immediately towards flying but understanding systems can help when problems occur, be them operational or fundamental aircraft failures. However this is sufficiently covered to do the job via ATPL GS.


In terms of paying Uni back. Well I finished ten years ago. I started Uni late after embarking on an ATPL that didn't go through. Anyway, I pay 200 p/m straight out of my top line. They will continue taking it until its settled. I did a 3 year BEng then a teaching qual/Masters. It's nowhere near 60k though because fees were IRO 3k pa at the time.


Not all pilots stay flying. Some go into management so a degree could help their.


I guess if you found yourself against one other and they couldn't decide who to offer the job too but you were degree qualified and the other one wasn't, they might consider you a safer option as you've demonstrated the ability to operate at that academic level and therefore are more likely to pass the course. Assuming you had a proper degree that is and not one in David Beckham studies or similar!
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Old 17th Feb 2018, 23:48
  #159 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Feb 2018
Location: Scotland
Posts: 4
Viable to do pilot training and study at university at the same time?

Hey guys!
To be begin with, I'd like to apologise if similar questions have been asked to death but I still wanted some opinions thus here is this thread.

I'm a 17 year old who is a wannabe commercial pilot. Ever since seeing and stepping on my first plane (funnily enough a 747) when I 4 years old, I've wanted to become one. As my age (and title) suggests, I'm in my last year of secondary/high school (S6). I was never going to persuade my mother to allow me to skip university (I actually want a degree as well) and go straight for pilot training so I've managed to make a compromise with her (and myself).

I've applied to 5 universities (3 in England, 2 in Scotland) and if I end up going to Edinburgh university, I'm planning to carry out pilot training while studying in University which allows me to reach my dream sooner while satisfying my mother's requirement. I guess right now most of you are probably thinking about finance as this sounds like disaster, which is probably true if my case was different.
As a Scottish student, unlike my counterparts down south in England, I don't have to pay for tuition fees meaning I won't have to take out a loan for tuition, especially if I stay in Edinburgh as I'd be able to live at home and not pay for accommodation (parents work abroad and are away 8+ months so win/win situation for both my parents and I).
In terms of the fees for pilot training, from working part-time and saving, I've already saved the majority of the costs for PPL training so if I continued to work part-time and included my SAAS grant, I'd actually be able to pay about 70% for the rest of training (assumes total cost from zero to frozen is about 55K). I'd also have my student loan at my disposal (which have the benefits of only 1.5% interest ATM plus if I earn below the threshold, I don't have to "repay" meaning no glaring issues with debt) and would easily cover the other 30%.
In other words, apart from how I'll probably struggle to find the time to study, work part-time and do training, at least in terms of finance, I should be all good.

Okay, down to my questions:
1. What do you guys think of this plan? I feel like I'd be overworking myself as instead of the common full-time job+training, I'm planning to work part-time, study full-time and train, all at the same time. At least I'm an introvert so not having time to socialise does not bother me plus I hate partying as I despise loud places with lots of people.
2. Would airlines be bothered by how it took me 4+ years to complete training? Note: I'm planning to try to obtain my PPL during my summer holiday (starts 23rd May and ends sometime September) as I should be able to afford it by then.
3. What's a good flight school around central belt Scotland? I'm considering ACS as its less than a hour drive away whereas tayside is a little far and the rest doesn't seem to offer CPL training (but will be fine for PPL).

Thanks guys!

P.S. Sorry for the long post. I could have probably taken out some of the information but I wanted to show that at least financially, its viable from my perspective. Also, I know I can just save everything up and start training after my degree but as I'm stubborn, for no real reason, I don't want to do that...
Mr.Meerkat is offline  
Old 18th Feb 2018, 09:29
  #160 (permalink)  
Bro
 
Join Date: Aug 2001
Location: uk
Posts: 32
Some university courses demand more study time than others. Even so you might find that university studying, plus part time work, plus ATPL ground school study to be too demanding on your time.
Assuming that you do get into university try to join the UAS, good quality instruction and free flying.
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