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Uni or not? (Merged 2013)

Old 18th Feb 2018, 11:14
  #161 (permalink)  

PPRuNe Handmaiden
 
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First things first. Do a medical and find out if there's any thing there stopping you. Vision, hearing, diabetes etc.
What degree are you planning to do? Obviously, different degrees have different course loads.
The PPL and a degree should be relatively easy. ATPL subjects and a degree? Now the work load will really ramp up.

If you can, do the flying in chunks, it is much better than doing 1 lesson a week. You'll spend half the lesson revising the last one...

Regarding the socialising. I am assuming you simply mean you don't like crowded venues with lots of noise? I also assume you do have some friends that you do like to be with to go to the movies etc. Reason why I ask is that the "notechs" part of a pilot is just as important as the technical skills. I can't tell you the difference sitting next to someone all day who is agreeable, socially relaxed and competent versus someone who is not.

Another thing to consider, since you'll be doing this modular (instead of full time), the chances of you landing a RHS in a Jet in the UK is sadly pretty slim with only 250 hours. Your first job is probably going to be either instructing or if the economy is buoyant, a turboprop.

Last edited by redsnail; 18th Feb 2018 at 18:32.
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Old 18th Feb 2018, 17:40
  #162 (permalink)  
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1. You are almost certainly going to overwork yourself trying to do it all at once. What degree is it? Have you considered a combination flying/degree course, such as the ones at Kingston, Bucks etc?

Being an introvert is not necessarily an advantage. You despise loud noises with lots of people? Good luck being based at an airport. You are going to have to get on and work, sometimes in a small space for hours, with lots of people. Airlines tend to look for stable extroverts.

2. No.

3. No idea.

Why are you bothering to take years and thousands out to do a degree if you want to become a pilot? You don't need one.
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Old 12th Nov 2018, 14:44
  #163 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Aug 2018
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What to do after A Levels?

Hi there, I'm looking at quick ways to becoming an airline pilot. Integrated training is obviously too expensive and my parents would never in a million years take such a financial risk. Modular is the definitely the way for me. I'm inquiring to a university about their Aerospace degree which is Aerospace Technology with Pilot Studies (BSc) I get a PPL along with this degree. I'm wondering if there any other ways of becoming a pilot after A Levels, i.e. Cadet Scheme sponsorships. Thanks
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Old 14th May 2019, 05:44
  #164 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: May 2019
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Aviation Degree

Hey Guys.

Just came up with possibility to get Aviation degree in City University of London. They offer to get MSc without BSc but having ATPL.

Does anyone know about that? The offer is actually very attractive but some doubts exists in myself

I mean is that degree recognized around the world?
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Old 14th May 2019, 12:31
  #165 (permalink)  
 
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City University is well regarded, as is their MSc in Air Transport Management. You would be taught by some very good people - and can expect to be doing a lot of very hard work. You can expect first to be coming up to the standard of a BSc graduate in study skills, then doing the equivalent of a year's tough full time study.

And yes, they do accept established ATPLs without undergraduate degrees, and are internationally recognised.

G
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Old 15th May 2019, 05:21
  #166 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: May 2019
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Thank you!

For now I just have no opportunity to go full time for a degree as i do airline flying. Thats why I was considering others way to get a degree.
Anyway, even though i dont know you, my doubts has been lessen
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Old 27th May 2019, 13:13
  #167 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: May 2019
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Young Aviator Needing Some Advice!

G'day, my name is Jarrod Smith and if you didn't guess already I'm from Australia. I am seeking some much-needed advice regarding cadetships, university and flying schools. To begin with, I am 18 years old studying a Bachelor's of Aviation in Queensland and aiming to become a commercial airline pilot as my final goal. I am finishing up my studying for the first trimester of uni and I've heard a lot about it being a waste of time and that I would have a better chance getting into a flight school and going from there. I have attempted cadetships and was unsuccessful, I feel as if waiting for another cadetship intake to show up can take up a lot of time. The time I would rather spend flying. I am seeking some advice from pilots who have gone in all these directions and see which is best for me, as I am coming across a big decision. To help some of you answer, what is my preference? I am leaning to the idea of joining a flying school and going from there. However, there are some doubts in my family that I would have a harder time finding a reliable job as a pilot this way. Or that this method would take too long, with poor pay and work conditions. What are the pros and cons of these below and overall which do you believe would the most beneficial?

Q1: Are universities worth it? (Bachelors of Aviation)

Q2: Are cadetships worth it? (Just keep studying and waiting)

Q3: Should I find a flying school and begin my journey there?


Can I grab any personal opinions on these questions possibly advice or personal experiences which could aid? If you think I should proceed a different pathway please suggest it also.

Thanks for reading,

Jarrod
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Old 27th May 2019, 22:29
  #168 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Aug 2017
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Originally Posted by 4015 View Post
Guys, let me give you some advice from my perspective.

At 16, the idea of being in your early twenties without flying is horrific. However, that is more than likely going to be the case no matter what route you take.

Should you go to uni? If you ask anyone a few years older than you, and anyone in the know, the answer is most likely "if you can, then yes". Here's why:
1. You will have something to fall back on, and indeed be able to get a decent well paid job whilst you wait for the first flying job.
2. You will have fun. Do not fall into the trap of thinking you need to be flying for a job by the age of 19. Relax, get out of your parent's house, and grow up. It will take most of university to grow up and learn who you actually are.
3. You get out of your parent's house, and get the opportunity to do things you would not otherwise be able to. The level of maturity of people I know who went to university was far above that of those who didn't, until at least the mid twenties.
4. You will actually have things to talk about in interviews. (Insert aircraft operator here) want their pilots to have life experience. Most pax do not want to see a mid pubescent kid with acne and bumfluff flying their aircraft.
5. Just to reiterate, you will grow up. I can't drill this down enough.
6. If you take a look at most pilots these days, a degree is a given. The competition for jobs is high, and anything you have which puts you higher in the food chain is worth having.

As for the lack of maths and physics, if you passed GCSE and are willing to put the work in then there shouldn't be a problem at all. There are a stable of several good flying schools, with anything above PPL you will probably want to be at one of them. You will be investing upwards of £40k. Not something you really want to risk.

My conclusion - Go to university if you can. Well and truly worth it. Save up between now and uni and you can afford to do your PPL one summer whilst you're there, hour build for fun for the rest of your time there. Come out, get a half decent job and continue. You'll still be in a plane by your mid twenties and you'll have a much better grasp on life than the other route.

Just my tuppence though...
Good advice to start off your thread! Iíll chip in whilst trying to sleep after being on night flights with work.

1, You will have something to fall back on and get a decent job (whatever quantifies as decent in you own eyes) if you study something that is actually relevant and leads directly into a career or opens the door into several careers. For arguments sake Architecture or Medicine for going straight into a career on the one hand or Law or economics on the other which opens doors to various careers eg Law, teaching, banking and so fourth. However with that being said and anyone please correct me if Iím wrong besides Medicine and related fields I canít actually think off the top of my head any other degree courses which directly lead / basically guarantee a job upon completion.

2, Undoubtedly you will have fun and gain life experience which is key for interviews and questions however this is also possible via apprenticeships and travelling. I was literally having this conversation with the captain yesterday evening who happens to be on the recruitment team for the airline I work for. In his eyes and straight from his mouth ďlife experience or something different eg competing at a high level in sport or balancing ATPLs whilst working full time is far more impressive in my eyes than a degree or mummy and daddy paying £100k for an integrated flight schoolĒ

Iíve said it before on this forum and will do many more times Im sure. when it comes to interviews and actually getting a job you could smash the CV sifting, tech interviews and sim assessments but at the end of the day if you canít make conversation besides what your next Instagram post will be about and the people doing the interviewing canít imagine sitting next to you for 10hrs or being down route for 4 days, guess what. You arenít getting hired.

3, It depends who you are as a person. My younger sister went to a red brick university, studied law and achieved a high 2:1, intellectually sheís superb common sense wise ... not so much. Has she used her degree since leaving ? No sheís been in Australia going on 18 months working in solar farms earning £1500 + a week. Is she mature....... probably not in a lot of peopleís eyes is she employable undoubtedly. When it comes down to interview questions you have to be a tad different to stand out, will you be able to do that via a university experience ? Probably. Would you be able to answer a similar question having lived and worked in a. Foreign environment outside of your comfort zone ? Most likely! Everyone learns and matured in different ways.


Iíve ranted on far too long so to summaries. Should you go to University, Personally I believe the days of Ďneedingí to are numbered. Itís more of a generational stigma and old boys club talking point unless your chosen profession requires you to do so for example Medicine. Investing time in learning a trade, gaining experience at a company and then opening a business of your own is the way to go. At the end of the day becoming a pilot requires money and determination with a touch of luck on your side. If you want to go to university go for it. If you donít, then donít. You have endless options to get where you want to be. save up from a part time job for example, lifeguard, gym instructor, retail and take a year out, work in a different country, save everything you can and come back into a relatively stable job whilst training.

For clarification or because it could potentially help you my Ďstory so farí.

I went to Uni on and off 3 times and gained absolutely sweet FA, Iíve worked in America, ran my own business, Competed in swimming internationally and been fortunate to travel Fairly extensively. I can guarantee you all of my interview answers based on experiences did not come from Uni. Iím currently working as cabin crew to pay for the rest of my ATPLs and hours. Iíll be taking a loan out for the CPL/MEIR. I had a trial flight at 15 but it wasnít until 18 months ago I sat down and worked out I could achieve the goal by saving X amount monthly. Iím 26 now and hope to be finished late next year.

Last edited by ComeFlyWithB; 27th May 2019 at 22:46.
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Old 27th May 2019, 22:37
  #169 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Aug 2017
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Originally Posted by ei-flyer View Post
Listen carefully, because follows some very good advice -

Forget uni, and don't go straight into work.

Go to college as soon as you've finished your AS Levels (so long as you're below the age of 19 it doesn't matter) and learn a trade, preferably something like plumbing, and then extend that to gas/heating or whatever.

Why? Here's why -

Go straight into work - guaranteed £800-1400 ish a month after tax for the next X amount of years. You think it's easy to save off that amount of money (even living at home)... It isn't.

Go to uni - lose three years and put yourself in unnecessary debt. And THEN you'll likely be earning anything from £15-30000 per annum starting salary. Ok, bit better.

Or - learn a trade for five years supported by an apprenticeship. I did it that way, and at age 21 I was taking home £40,000 a year. After tax. The amount of extra 'cold cash' you develop in that line of work is immense. Used to get an extra £100-150 a day JUST for the scrap metal I took back home to the scrapyard. That doesn't include the £140 base pay for the job. That was taxed, though.

By 23 I'd put myself through the rest of flight training and flying for a loco carrier we all know. Paid for the type rating too. No debt, was living at home.

A lot of people will tell you to go to uni as a 'fallback'. A fallback? Helloooo, there's hardly any jobs anywhere, not just in aviation. But when yer loo goes kerplunk, that needs fixing. Tradesmen are always in demand and the money is good. Also, unlike a lot of academially qualified positions, you can jump straight back into it in the future should you require, as opposed to going through a lengthy application process. It's because having a trade is a more worthy skill to most people (customers) than a degree.

I am biased - when I was 14/15 I was all for uni. Was a math-head personally, but realised that could only take me so far.

It can be difficult while still at school, but really take a good hard look at the real world of moneymaking, and it's easy to see.

Good luck

quick edit - I know a lot of people avoid college because it's where all the 'losers' go. That [email protected] who sits on the backrow at school, dim as ****, will always answer 'college' when asked what they're gonna do. The bright ones always say 'uni'. Be under no illusion, college isn't in some way 'easier', and aforementioned [email protected] will probably never become a plumber, electrician, or whatever. Will piss their EMA up the wall, not bother studying the theory, and get kicked off the course. Food for thought.
Couldnít agree more with this. If I could leave school all over again knowing what I know now I wouldíve gone down this road 100%. Plus a trade makes you geographically mobile meaning you could potentially work somewhere with a low cost of living for a couple of years or so, live very basically and save everything you need for a modular integrated course - £45,000 ish.
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Old 27th May 2019, 23:04
  #170 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Aug 2017
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Originally Posted by Jarrod Smith View Post
G'day, my name is Jarrod Smith and if you didn't guess already I'm from Australia. I am seeking some much-needed advice regarding cadetships, university and flying schools. To begin with, I am 18 years old studying a Bachelor's of Aviation in Queensland and aiming to become a commercial airline pilot as my final goal. I am finishing up my studying for the first trimester of uni and I've heard a lot about it being a waste of time and that I would have a better chance getting into a flight school and going from there. I have attempted cadetships and was unsuccessful, I feel as if waiting for another cadetship intake to show up can take up a lot of time. The time I would rather spend flying. I am seeking some advice from pilots who have gone in all these directions and see which is best for me, as I am coming across a big decision. To help some of you answer, what is my preference? I am leaning to the idea of joining a flying school and going from there. However, there are some doubts in my family that I would have a harder time finding a reliable job as a pilot this way. Or that this method would take too long, with poor pay and work conditions. What are the pros and cons of these below and overall which do you believe would the most beneficial?

Q1: Are universities worth it? (Bachelors of Aviation)

Q2: Are cadetships worth it? (Just keep studying and waiting)

Q3: Should I find a flying school and begin my journey there?


Can I grab any personal opinions on these questions possibly advice or personal experiences which could aid? If you think I should proceed a different pathway please suggest it also.

Thanks for reading,

Jarrod

i wont proclaim to have any experience of the Australian education system because I donít however in my personal option going to University to study a degree not related to a fall back option or something youíre interested in is a waste of time. Letís say you gain your degree in aviation, get a commercial flying job and then lose your license Or Medicals.... what then ?

If you go to the uni route / vocational training. Study something or anything you can imagine enjoying besides flying incase god forbid that privilege gets taken from you. However due to my lack of knowledge you may very well need a degree to get into an airline if itís anything like the American Majors where a 4 year degree is usually mandatory however American aviation jobs is a whole other topic for a different day. But my advice remains - if you do need a a degree, make it something you find interesting besides aviation that youíd be happy to do if one day you had no other options. Work a part time job on the side. Finish uni, start working and complete training in your spare time.

2, Again from limited knowledge I believe cadetships are outrageously expensive, Iíd go so far as saying Australia is one of if not the most expensive place to train in the world. I really donít know enough about the aviation industry over there to give you any remotely useful advice on this one besides the age old integrated vs modular debate in the U.K. will the integrated schools get you into an airline straight away ? Yes if itís sponsored by whichever airline, not necessarily if itís just the training. I have 2 friends who trained at one of the big schools in the U.K. one Sponsored by a Middle Eastern carrier and one who was a whitetail cadet. They still took 6 and 12 months to start flying respectively. In theory if you have around £45,000 and the aptitude you could complete everything from PPL to CPL/MEIR in 12 - 14 months if you had a considerable amount of luck with weather on your side and a desire to spend that amount of Time in certain parts of Europe.

3, Do your research, look into all options whether that be the US, South Africa, Europe or Aus. Find which way will suit you best and go from there. Take everyoneís advice with an. Pinch of salt and donít be sold by the glossy brochures.
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Old 27th May 2019, 23:10
  #171 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Aug 2017
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Originally Posted by tariqusher123 View Post
Hi there, I'm looking at quick ways to becoming an airline pilot. Integrated training is obviously too expensive and my parents would never in a million years take such a financial risk. Modular is the definitely the way for me. I'm inquiring to a university about their Aerospace degree which is Aerospace Technology with Pilot Studies (BSc) I get a PPL along with this degree. I'm wondering if there any other ways of becoming a pilot after A Levels, i.e. Cadet Scheme sponsorships. Thanks

1, Train modularly around work, life, any commitments
2, Go to an integrated school
3, Attempt to join her majestyís armed forces either as a pilot or something else and work towards becoming a pilot whilst in.

unfortunately unlike many other professions which have numerous ways in there are only 3 ways to get qualified in this industry.
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Old 27th May 2019, 23:26
  #172 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Aug 2017
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Originally Posted by Mr.Meerkat View Post
Hey guys!
To be begin with, I'd like to apologise if similar questions have been asked to death but I still wanted some opinions thus here is this thread.

I'm a 17 year old who is a wannabe commercial pilot. Ever since seeing and stepping on my first plane (funnily enough a 747) when I 4 years old, I've wanted to become one. As my age (and title) suggests, I'm in my last year of secondary/high school (S6). I was never going to persuade my mother to allow me to skip university (I actually want a degree as well) and go straight for pilot training so I've managed to make a compromise with her (and myself).

I've applied to 5 universities (3 in England, 2 in Scotland) and if I end up going to Edinburgh university, I'm planning to carry out pilot training while studying in University which allows me to reach my dream sooner while satisfying my mother's requirement. I guess right now most of you are probably thinking about finance as this sounds like disaster, which is probably true if my case was different.
As a Scottish student, unlike my counterparts down south in England, I don't have to pay for tuition fees meaning I won't have to take out a loan for tuition, especially if I stay in Edinburgh as I'd be able to live at home and not pay for accommodation (parents work abroad and are away 8+ months so win/win situation for both my parents and I).
In terms of the fees for pilot training, from working part-time and saving, I've already saved the majority of the costs for PPL training so if I continued to work part-time and included my SAAS grant, I'd actually be able to pay about 70% for the rest of training (assumes total cost from zero to frozen is about £55K). I'd also have my student loan at my disposal (which have the benefits of only 1.5% interest ATM plus if I earn below the threshold, I don't have to "repay" meaning no glaring issues with debt) and would easily cover the other 30%.
In other words, apart from how I'll probably struggle to find the time to study, work part-time and do training, at least in terms of finance, I should be all good.

Okay, down to my questions:
1. What do you guys think of this plan? I feel like I'd be overworking myself as instead of the common full-time job+training, I'm planning to work part-time, study full-time and train, all at the same time. At least I'm an introvert so not having time to socialise does not bother me plus I hate partying as I despise loud places with lots of people.
2. Would airlines be bothered by how it took me 4+ years to complete training? Note: I'm planning to try to obtain my PPL during my summer holiday (starts 23rd May and ends sometime September) as I should be able to afford it by then.
3. What's a good flight school around central belt Scotland? I'm considering ACS as its less than a hour drive away whereas tayside is a little far and the rest doesn't seem to offer CPL training (but will be fine for PPL).

Thanks guys!

P.S. Sorry for the long post. I could have probably taken out some of the information but I wanted to show that at least financially, its viable from my perspective. Also, I know I can just save everything up and start training after my degree but as I'm stubborn, for no real reason, I don't want to do that...

if you actually want a degree and have the benefit of gaining one for free itís kind of a no brainer. Doing your ppl over the summer is a great idea. If I could redo mine Iíd head to the states for 6 weeks and do it for around £8,000 the weather In the U.K. and fast completion of flight training just do not go together.

In terms of Studying for a degree and completing ATPLs .....the best answer is. it depends. Iíd say if youíre studying a fairly relevant course to aviation or a low workload course it probably is doable because realistically itís going to be equally or less intense compared to working full time (I say this because getting into Edinburgh is no easy feat) Plenty of people work full time, have stressful events going on eg moving houses, having kids and do just fine, personally Iím working as cabin crew whilst doing mine and although Iíve set myself a pretty tough schedule, messed around some what initially Iíd say Iím pretty much still on track. The only thing youíd need to factor in would be revision weeks and exams around your course, lectures etc.

4, I very much doubt it unless it was over a very large amount of years with that being said though Iím confident people get there PPL when they have there first amount of Meaningful disposable income say early - late twenties and then complete the advanced flying phase say 3 years later after completing the exams and saving for the biggest expense.

I donít know the schools that way weíll enough however from social media at least ACS seem to be decent.
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Old 29th May 2019, 09:46
  #173 (permalink)  

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G'day Jarrod,
Did you get any feedback as to why you didn't get through the cadetship interview? Anything you can take away from the experience?
I haven't worked in Australia for nearly 20 years so I am a bit out of touch.
I am assuming you have HSC maths and physics? That's all Qantas wants. Degrees are not a formal requirement for pilot employment in Australia.
What sort of aviation degree are you getting? I am guessing it comes with ATPL subjects and a CPL/IR thrown in? Or is that on top of 3 years study?
I had a look at the Uni of Southern Queensland's page - it looks great for airline preparation but it's highly likely that your first job will be as far away from airline flying as possible. You'll more than likely start your career in the outback flying knackered C210 or C207s. Keep that in the back of your mind as you move through the degree.
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Old 13th Dec 2019, 17:35
  #174 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Dec 2019
Location: Newcastle
Posts: 7
If uni is free for you, yes. But you don't as well use the money for flight training, if you have to pay.
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Old 9th Jan 2020, 11:19
  #175 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: On the ground
Posts: 51
Dont't start flying

Before I started flying, I finished my Masters degree in aeronautical engineering. It may have helped me a little in answering stupid theoretical questions during interviews, but apart from that, nobody ever cared.

I never had the chance to get an office job besides flying where I could use my experience and knowledge to the benefit of my colleagues and the company. In the beginning I made many suggestions to improve processes, mainly IT- related. Personal relationships, not qualification is all that matters.

Now, turning 60 years of age, I am working as a first officer with no prospect of being upgraded again, with 16000 hours experience treated like a schoolboy by arrogant 'trainers', who are abusing their power, because training, which is graded is - in my humble opinion - checking.

This is a terrible business. I am looking forward to the day when I can afford to stop.
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