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Old 11th Sep 2017, 20:58   #741 (permalink)

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25 years old from argentina

Hi everyone. A little context: I'm 25 from Argentina and about to get a degree in system information.
I would really like to start the pilot career, targeting at commercial airlines. I've already saved to pay for the private pilot license and commercial pilot license. Thing is that I'd like to continue my life and training anywhere else, since job pilots in this country barely exists. (Any type of pilots job).
Is it possible to validate the hours in another country?. USA, Canada, Europe, China, anywhere. Also I've read that the payment for starters is not very good, is this a global situation or only in the us?
I've also read that there is a pilot shortage so that now is a good time to become one.
Finally, the question you always get: is 25 a good age to dream of becoming a pilot? Luckily i dont have a wife or debts or anything pulling me back too much. Any advice will be more than welcomed!. At what age did you start studying for this?
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Old 11th Sep 2017, 21:02   #742 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by Reverserbucket View Post
It is interesting how this idea that integrated is the only way has been perpetuated by the larger ATO's selling predominantly, err, integrated courses. I could give you the names of fifty or more colleagues and acquaintances currently flying both larger and small airliners, many in the left seat and several in management and training roles who are all either the product of modular (self-improvers in old money) or ex-military and up through the modular route. It's more about the person than the path in my view.
I've heard this "integrated is the only way" mantra spoutted out at flying clubs in the back end of the UK. The glossy PR has been very effective and far reaching in producing and diseminating this narrative!
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Old 12th Sep 2017, 00:26   #743 (permalink)
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There are some good modular schools in the UK, which have high standard, and it's not one of the top 2 expensive ones.

At the current climate of the Pound vs US Dollar, I can't see much savings in going to the US at the moment, as you still need to come back and also do the conversion. Maybe 10 years ago, when the exchange rate was 1 : 2 it was better.

If you do well, and you are under 30, I have not heard of anybody not having a chance with RyanAir, I would however be careful with some schools around in Europe, as I have seen pilots come from them, trained with them, and they have not all been trained to the same standard as you see in the UK.
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Old 12th Sep 2017, 10:55   #744 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by G SXTY View Post

Wrong. Completely wrong.

I'd recommend a bit more research then. Flybe gave me my first job, and I distinctly remember doing modular training. As did many of my colleagues.

Integrated might be the only low-hours route into BA, but as an experienced direct entry pilot, they couldn't care less how and where you trained. I know because I work for them now. Integrated training may give you an advantage with some airlines, some of the time. It ain't a golden ticket, however. In my direct experience, breaking into this industry is far more dependent on contacts and timing than where or how you trained - or how old you are.
I know of plenty Modular trained guys, who mostly have gone abroad for their first job, come back after 1 - 2- 3 years experience, and gone into very good UK jobs.
I am not disputing that you can't get a UK job as low hour modular, but you will be in the back of a very long queue after the ones who have paid their "golden ticket" £120.000 to CTC / Oxford, the MPL's, the integrated, currently as far as I know BA, easyJet, FlyBe, Monarch, Virgin to mention a few, have all had some cadet scheme agreement the last few years with the big FTO's.

Some FTO's, have become quite powerful with job placement now, and even run their own schemes for modular pilots who want to apply for the major airlines.
Than add the thousands of pilots working abroad, who are looking to get back home to the UK, and you understand it's not easy going the modular route anymore.
If you are older it's even more risky, I recall around 6-7 years ago one week I was to do the CTC ATPQ or something like that screening, which was to put you in a hold pool, and pay £10.000 for a MCC/JOC course, same week I got offered a job with an airline abroad, so of I went to that job. I was not prepared to sit and wait for 1-2 years in a hold pool, and have to pay £10.000 for the course and an additional £35.000 for TR, but I recall some people was very "HAPPY" when they passed this selection.

If you are mid 40's, time counts, time is money, those years commuting was very hard, and knowing what I know now, I am pretty sure many who thing of doing this today at a late age should show caution. It had great financial and family consequences for me, and still today where I am in a good job, I can't confirm if the investment and sacrifices was worth it.
Sure love the job, but life is not just about working.
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Old 13th Sep 2017, 07:23   #745 (permalink)
Join Date: Jun 2017
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Originally Posted by button push ignored View Post
I'm sorry that there is little commercial aviation in Argentina. But that's what populist socialism gets you. Shared misery.
My father is from Argentina. Got his commercial license in the early 80s, never had a chance to work in the country (80s, 90s 2000s). He always had to work in another countries. So I don't think "populist socialism" has to do anything with that .
Anyway, this is not a politics forum (fortunately).

There is a lot of people who gets the license with around 20 years, so those of us who are 25 have to hurry up! But I think it's still a good age!
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Old 13th Sep 2017, 09:32   #746 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by button push ignored View Post
By age 25 I was already a Boeing 727 first officer. So your a little late to the party, but not too late. If you hurry you'll still make it. But you don't have any time to waste.
I would argue 25 is not too late at all. I didn't start until I was 27, and didn't even finish until I was 34 and still made it into the RHS of a jet. Many friends of mine older than me (up to 38) are in the same position.

I agree that the younger you are the better your chances, but 25 shouldn't be an issue in the current climate.
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Old 13th Sep 2017, 22:41   #747 (permalink)

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Originally Posted by button push ignored View Post
By age 25 I was already a Boeing 727 first officer. So your a little late to the party, but not too late. If you hurry you'll still make it. But you don't have any time to waste.

The main problem as I see it for you if you do not have legal right to work in either Europe/UK, or the United States. So unless you marry somebody who is a citizen of that country, then I don't know what you'll do.

You want to know if age 25 is a good age to DREAM of becoming a pilot?
No age 10 thru 15 is a good age to dream, from then on you have to start coming up with a plan. I would say age 17 or 18 is the right time to start making it happen.

I'm glad to see that you have money saved and have no commitments. But another problem for you is the exchange rates. The United States Dollar is very over valued, and the British schools are very over priced.

There are basically very few jobs that pay anything for people with just 250 hours. Without the right to even flight instruct in the US. I would think that South American missionary work may be your best opportunity. But don't expect it to pay much if anything.

I'm sorry that there is little commercial aviation in Argentina. But that's what populist socialism gets you. Shared misery.

But I never want to leave a conversation without offering some assistance.
Look into going to Barteloni School in Lodz Poland.
I understand you can get a European Frozen Air Line Pilots License for about Euros 60,000
From there you can try to work in the Middle East or Africa.

Or just stay in Argentina and dream of another job.

Thanks for your message. Being a FO at age 25 is awesome. When did you start? And how many hours did you have when you got that job?

Actually i can legally work and live in Europe as i do have double citizenship (Argentinian & Italian). Unluckily i don't have the same rights for USA.

As for Argentinian being a ****** up country and the other comments, it is and has pretty much always been, and always will be so i will leave this country for sure, becoming a pilot or not.
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Old 2nd Nov 2017, 16:48   #748 (permalink)

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I am now 31, soon will be 32... and if I choose to wait to 35 years old and only then start training. Will I make mistake in your opinion? I know that it is hard to say "you will" or "you will not" but what would you tell me if I am your friend and tell you this.

And I planed it like that, partly because of (some of the most important things):

1) I have wife, but we still don't have children. We want to have children from now on and I guess that it will be really hard for her to be alone with small baby while I am somewhere in Europe on training. And it is very likely to happen (that we have baby) if I start training now. Having baby later is not option as we will be too old to have first child in near 40, at least for me (but please don't argue about this).

2) I have really great job right now and I need to do some more steps to ensure my future and to have certain "backup" job if I don't succeed as pilot. I can't do those steps tomorrow as I need some more working experience (something like gaining flight hours - but just in law)

3) I have luck (or bad luck) to live in Bosnia which is rather poor and ****** up country and for example Wizz air has base in my city. I would be perfectly happy to fly for Wizz, and with FO income you can live in Bosnia really good while in rest of Europe you can't even rent a house. I see that Wizz is constantly employing new people and that they are growing and I guess that not much potential FOs fighting to work in my country. But how like is that they will hire one 35-36 years old pilot and let him work at his home town? (I can work in EU too as i have Croatian citizenship too).

4) I am not looking to become rich in way that because I am captain of Airplane I have house with pool and Porsche for me, my wife and every child . I must admit that (thankfully to my parents and my work) I have enough money to finance my training and would be satisfied if in rest of my working life I repay invested money in training and earn some more money...

If I am 5 years younger I would not ask this and would do it, but now I am not sure what to do. To drop this plan as unrealistic and too optimistic or to to proceed with it. I am aware that 3rd point is too stretched to be my main goal and, but you can see that I would be happy even with this scenario which 99% of pilots will not be happy with.

I have probably gone too deep with my "story" but what do you think about everything I said? Sometime it feels like good plan (as I don't expect much in return, have money for school and have support from wife) but also sometimes it feels to me that I will be too old to start all this and that I will be counting on too much uncertain things. I don't have friends with real life flying experience as captains or FO, so I can't evaluate my thought without your help. That is why I ask it heir.

Right now I don't have any permits for flying and I would probably go with integrated way. Maybe get PPL in meantime...
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Old 30th Nov 2017, 16:54   #749 (permalink)

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iam 30 years with degree in foreign language and social media marketing and iwant to be pilot is too old now
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Old 30th Nov 2017, 18:35   #750 (permalink)
Join Date: Mar 2012
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How long has this thread being going on? I think we can answer all questions with a simple: "have you got the money?" and close it!
Learning to fly takes a pile load of money, even going PPL ain't cheap. If you are young you need someone to pay your training; if you are middle-aged and you have some money you still need the time to switch between your normal job and the training; if you are old and rich you can always buy your job.
Why only rockstars and teenagers work in aviation? Because they had the money. Period.
So, if you got the money you might get a job, otherwise you can only do it as an hobby and, frankly, that might be enough if you really love aviation. A job is not the answer to your passion.
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Old 1st Dec 2017, 15:49   #751 (permalink)
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Someone's having a good day :-P
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Old 28th Dec 2017, 14:21   #752 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by redsnail View Post
I'm a 10 year captain at NetJets Europe.
Aww and I remember the days you were delighted flying an SD-30!
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Old 28th Dec 2017, 18:03   #753 (permalink)

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Ha! Good experience to be honest. I flew with one of my colleagues from Streamline t'other day on the Challenger 350. We had fun reminiscing and also enjoying cruising at FL430.
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Old 29th Dec 2017, 14:38   #754 (permalink)
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I dont see many of the pre 2000 members here very often Reddo!
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Old 10th Jan 2018, 21:25   #755 (permalink)

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Are we ever too old?


Just got the flying ‘bug’, I am 50 have just started my PPL, plan to do CPL and then IR and multi engine. Have no desire to fly jets but am interested to know how far I could go?

I have a small used car site in UK and also do part-time counselling, it more for me can I get any job flying, whether UK or Spain, the Canaries would be ideal even if seasonal or part-time?

I m guessing and would like to be corrected I only need to achieve CPL, IR and night rating to be be able to work ?

Thanks and great thread
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Old 13th Jan 2018, 02:40   #756 (permalink)
Join Date: Aug 2011
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Go for it Docdibley and enjoy the ride !
Life is definitely too short to ask oneself so many questions and not leaving the moment...
I am going to turn 40 and I am about to start the ATPL theory course. Have already FAA CPL but it is kind of useless here in Europe.
You probably have to get the ATPL exams too and then IR + CPL.
I think the most important thing is to take care of making connections, networking is a huge factor in this business.
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Old 13th Jan 2018, 18:49   #757 (permalink)
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i got a place in a Cadet program at 44....therefore go for it !
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Old 15th Jan 2018, 18:32   #758 (permalink)

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Wow, that’s great.
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Old 16th Jan 2018, 02:10   #759 (permalink)
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Old 16th Jan 2018, 18:27   #760 (permalink)
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All, been actively trying not to engage with this thread from when I last deeply considered it all a few years back. Glad to hear that the Modular route *might* be making a come back.

It was a post by G SXTY about his first interview / offer that helped carry me through the industry doom back in 2009/10 (can't find it now) – that kept the fire burning for me then but with a young family and the recessional risks that prevailed I just couldn't justify it then. The obsession/ambition still consumes me everyday. I've been lingering on the less positive airline threads from seasoned flyers in PPRuNe Worldwide to help discourage me from embarking on this all again, which has been working until strayed over here!

I'm closer to 40 now with 3 young'ns, all at p-school (though they're old enough to know that a family day out watching the fun on 27R from the Thistle is 'uncool'). The 150-ish hour PPL is now invalid – I want to get back up the Club every day but is hour-building (once revalidated), with a view of building on my license 'organically' and locally even worth it? Would a Modular route through one of the notable schools – BCFT was always recommended to me back then – give me a fighting chance?

I'm self-employed with the usual trappings so i've only ever been drip-feeding the flying pot as and when cash-flow has permitted, so full upfront funds to a school is a major risk. I still have my Class 1 medical so that's one box ticked, though due to being a sole trader for 15 odd years I have no actual employment history and no recent/credible qualifications that measure up against the younger crowd.

Almost convinced myself back out of it having written all this now
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