Dan910

Thanks for the input guys, ultimately my only concern is being able to make a living from investing in an atpl, I get no job satisfaction from my current job and being self employed it comes with no benefits, if I knew that Id secure a job in the region of 40-50k then Id happily invest the money, but unfortunately I’d need a crystal ball to see if that would happen.

rudestuff

You mentioned the money would be coming out of your mortgage? Presumably that means you have the equity. If that's the case, then a remorgage would mean your repayments stay the same, but over a longer period. Since you are already paying that, I'd say that represents minimal risk.

Two things are need to be a commercial pilot: 1, have a licence. 2, convince someone to give your a job. The second is where you have to think laterally and make sacrifices. It's a cyclical industry, with waves every 5-7 years. Right now flight instructors are being sucked up everywhere, which is a really good sign. I'd say take the gamble, you'll definitely regret it if you don't. You don't have to give up the day job until you get an offer, and you could even become an FI and teach on weekends, paying off the cost over 10-15 years with a really fun hobby. You can't really lose.

Dan910

Yes that’s correct rudestuff I would be using some of the equity in our house to fund it, we are fortunate that we have family we can move in with so various options with the property whilst at flight school such as renting it out or possibly selling the property all together.

As you rightly said the difficult part is convincing someone to offer me a job at the end of it all which is why the cadet program made sense to me but realising I wouldn’t be able to go the mpl route it would probably make more sense to pay less and get a fatpl for a lot less money as you said in your original reply. Appreciate your comments.

Has anyone had any success with cadet programs via the atpl route.

Jaair

Dan, depending on how determined you are you'll get there in the end, regardless of the route you take. I know modular colleagues who got hired straight out of school. I also know some modular colleagues who got hired after years of instruction.

There are several pilots out there having graduated from top flight schools who have failed to secure a job and have simply given up. They had the money but lacked passion/determinism.

Dreamflight80

My situation:
- Almost 38 years old;
- No children;
- Good work as Software Engineer;
- Able to pay for integrated flight training (+/- 18 months) and - if necessary - TR without the need of a mortgage;

But then we have the one million dollar question: will airlines invite me for a job interview at the age of 40...
Everyone claims that chances decline with age. European airlines seem to focus a lot on age compared to US airlines. In USA, one still has a chance with the regionals with age 40+ and even 50+
Additionally, Asian airlines hire European pilots with a lot of experience but seem to hire locals for low experienced positions

It's a dilemma.

WelshBarry

Dreamflight80, if you really want to do it , don't give up. Go for it big time. It is a great time to get a pilot's job and there is quite a shortage in many places in Europe and elsewhere.

If you think you are old, I didn't start my training until I was 40 and an old friend of mine didn't start until he was 43! That friend is now a Captain on a 737 earning good bucks and enjoying his flying and does not miss his old lifestyle/job at all.

Good luck to you and remember that some companies don't insist that all of their new pilots are only 22, some feel that older pilots may stay with them for longer and not run off to Emirates or wherever.

Dan910

That’s what I liked about the cadet programs, although exspensive if you are successful and go down the mpl route then from what I understand is that you are given a job offer at the end of it. Anyone currently or know someone currently going down this route?

Dan910

Zerofuelmass what cadet did you do if you don’t mind me asking and how did it go?

max1980

Hi Dreamflight80,

I am in the exact same situation. Have you made a decision yet? Last week I went to the open day at CAE in Brussels and I am currently in Portugal for the open day of L3.

What options are you considering?

Groeten!

Massimo

58guy

Okay, I'm really sorry but I'll try to make this as short and sweet as I can.

Long and short is that flying has become a four letter word in my life.

As a kid I wanted to become a fighter pilot (who doesn't right?) or a pilot of some sort in the military. Well back then I had to start wearing glasses and pretty much gave up on the idea since until recently glasses and LASIK were a no go. Eventually I made it to the military about 8 years ago and worked on helicopters until last year when I got hurt and was medically discharged. Before that happened I was working on becoming an officer and then flying whirly birds, but life happens and the military takes you dry and puts you away wet. So those are my two attempts thus far. My injury wont disqualify me from a Class 1. The military showed me the door because I can't do things like hump a 45 pound pack for 12 miles, or run, or wear body armor.

Anyway, I have been wanting to fly again. I work overseas in an operations function in aviation right now making a killing compared to other points in my life. Watching the aircraft flying around here makes me want to start flying again. The only experience I have right now is from 4 years ago. I completed PPL ground school and have around 12 hours in a 172. The FBO kept jacking up the price of the 172 I flew, unfortunately the pay from the military couldn't keep up (guess you can count that is my 3rd attempt at flying).

I'll cut to the chase. This is what is going through my head and opportunities in front of me.

This is what I'm planning to do.

Work contracts for the next 4-5 years (which puts me at 34 or 35) and make it so I can develop passive income and not have to worry about bad pay. Then start flying again, which will be covered by my veterans benefits, or most of at least, and go from there.

I really don't care where I work, honestly if I work anywhere in the world that would be great. My wife and I that are the type that wants to throw a dart at the earth and end up where it lands. I already have a network built with pilots I worked with in the military who either A) are at the airlines or B) a captain at a corporate charter company who will open a FAA Part 141 soon with a contract flying for the company for two years after. My wife will support anything I do because I made some sacrifices in my previous life for her and she is more than willing to help and support me. She has a strong career and I don't need to support her. We don't want kids, ever.

What I want is to have a decent career doing something I enjoy. I would love to make it into cargo or live in a different part of the world. Matter of fact, how does someone from North America end up flying in other countries besides the ME3? For example, can someone work for Korean Air and be based in Korea?

Back on topic, long in short of it is this. I don't really care about making a metric **** ton of cash one day but I want to be comfortable. I feel like have some pretty good opportunities in front of me to make this happen. I love flying and I would be so god damn happy flying rubber dog **** out of Hong Kong.

If you were in my shoes would you go through with my plan? If your are in the industry already let me know what you think.

Much love in advance for any advice. Sorry I rambled a bit but there is a lot rolling in my head right now.

Dreamflight80

Hi max1980,

I haven't taken a decision yet, I'm still considering...
If I decide to go for it, I'll try to commence flight training at CAE Brussels (former Sabena FTO). First part of their training is only theory which is given in Belgium. This is quite convenient concerning my living costs as I won't have to move for the first 6/7 months.
Both flight schools have an outstanding reputation. I'm only considering integrated training to have the shortest route - quite important at our age.

One month ago, I had a chat with the Training Advisor of CAE Brussels to discuss my dilemma. It was a good discussion, without any sales talk, just a no nonsense conversation.
Obviously, he can't guarantee a flying job after graduation. The oldest student they had was 37 years old and managed to get a flying job.
He understood my fear of not finding a job and 'throwing away' 100k.
So he asked me this: "Will you always have big regret if you never tried to become a professional pilot? Or are you able to have another career outside of aviation?"
He gave me the advice to take sufficient time to answer these questions.

He also underlined that most airlines fly 95% of the time on automatic pilot. So don't expect to fly a lot manually.

Have you decided yet?

Greets

tgw1979

hi, I'm new here and like a lot of first time posters have a dream of flying for a career.

I'm 39, in a full time decent job working 9-5 with an engineering company (not aviation related) and have 22 days a year holiday. I can get the funds for a modular route so long as I hold down my job throughout training.

Which is where the problem lies. Ppl at a minimum of 45 hours + 100 hours experience then ir/cpl/me etc is sounding like a lot of weekends. That's before the home study and exams. I'm thinking I should target two years maximum or it will just drift along and cost lots of money without getting to a suitable reward.

Is two years possible considering factors such as instructor time, aeroplane hire time and fickle British weather? Is there a typical day at flying school and how many hours in a day/weekend is normal?

Any real world examples out there?

Sorry for all the silly questions I just want to be sure before I start.

rudestuff

A lot of people get a PPL and then go to the US to hour build. In your case you might want to consider doing it the other way around.
Weather is the biggest factor: in the UK if you only fly weekends, you might average one flyable day per weekend.
On that day you will be competing with every other student for aircraft and instructors.
*IF* you pass the written test before you go, you can book 3 weeks in Florida and (with a bit of luck) get an FAA PPL. This can be validated for UK use for £45, and it means you don't need a night rating. Then get yourself a share in a 152 (around £1500) and hour build at your leisure in the UK while you study the ATPLs. That would put you on track for a frozen ATPL for about £35,000

jamesgrainge

If you're lucky you'll get your PPL in two years

On a serious note, if you set off down this road you are in it for the long haul and need to be sure it's what you want to do and know you've got what is required mentally. First thing is a class 1 medical.

Two years is, optimistic shall we say. If you want speed you need Integrated. Or to stop work.

rudestuff

If your want to do things fast, modular distance learning is fastest. You can go at your own pace - no waiting for the rest of the class!

MaverickPrime

You only get 22 days holiday a year?! I feel sorry for you!

I'd say it would be near impossible to complete in 2 years, more like 3. Its going to be even more difficult if you've a family as well.

You will have to give up your job for the CPL MEIR stage, as most of the time it is completed in a 2-3 month block; unless your company is will to give you unpaid leave or a gap year.

Nothing is impossible, its never too late to do it (within reason), go for it if you really want it!

I'd recommend you go and see an AME and ensure you can pass a Class 1 medical before you proceed with any training.

Basil Fawlty1

Once you get the £45 validation can you fly in the UK with an FAA PPL or does there need to be some form of conversion done first ?

rudestuff

No flying needed. You just need to fill in srg2140 and show knowledge of Air law & ATC. (This can be a chat with an examiner or a PPL/CPL/ATPL exam pass)

tgw1979

No night rating needed? Does it not get dark in the USA?!

Lots to think about, thanks for the tips. I hadn't thought of doing the ppl elsewhere. It's an interesting thought. Three years might be more realistic I guess? I can spread the saving a bit more that way.

35k was less than I was budgeting for but I'll aim for the bigger savings just in case. Is it normal to buy a share in a 152 or similar then sell it on six months later? I guess if you are up front with the syndicate they might accommodate.

tgw1979

On a more general lifestyle note is it likely airlines restrict when holiday can be taken?

We don't have kids but my wife is a teacher and based on a maximum of 900 hours per year I'm fairly confident on short haul a decent home/work balance can be struck but if I can't book holiday during school breaks , presumably the airlines busiest time, my whole plan is somewhat scuppered.