inabw

Where are you from Sir? In Italy there's the legend that if you don't pay to fly (type and hours) you never will find a job with fresh atpl (In Europe). So, after i saw you history i think you are very strong person, and i share everything about your opinions 'n about leadership and skills... Have a lucky life and career.

Gentle Climb

I wouldn't go so far as to say that it becomes just 'another job' but the initial novelty and excitement does fade fairly quickly. Getting out of bed at midnight to fly overnight in to a CAT C airfield at the end of the second sector loses it's glamour rapidly.
However, the enjoyment of seeing and feeling improvement and progression in all of the different facets of flying an aircraft is very rewarding. It's a cliché but climbing above clouds in to the sunshine on a miserable rainy day still makes me smile, but not as much as a CDA with a landing in the right place at the right speed...in one of our aircraft with no vnav capacity.
It is a very different career from my other business but I enjoy that a lot more now that I get away from it regularly.
You should also not underestimate the impact upon your family. Suddenly, I am not available...with 2 days notice I can be away for two weeks. Can you deal with that...can they?

inabw

Wow Sir, i really hope to realize my dream one day; not for the glamorous side, but specially for every moment like your had descript in your post...the reality is very different from 70's but the love for this field never change. Thank you for sharing with everybody us.

Marlon Brando

I'm 42, started PPL at 38, frozen ATPL at 40, modular in UK

I've been working as a copilot in a medium-heavy bizjet for 5 months now. Looked for a job for 2 looooong years, despite my strong connections in the corporate aviation industry from my previous job. Then i got the dream job...good money, 6 months off a year, Europe, great plane.
But I start to understand now why they give us that much money just to fly a plane.
I'm now half a pilot, half a father, and what's left is for my wife.
it's not exactly what I was expecting... I love the job, the flying is great, but I underestimated the negative impact on my family/couple life, it's really much more difficult than I thought, not sur your (my?) couple will survive that, we never think about it while on training.

I got this job because of my connections, otherwise I would probably still be unemployed. If you're more than 35, you can forget the airlines I think.
About my classmate, 5 young guys are at ryanair, one old FI, one old P2F, and me.

Ax82

Hi everybody.
I also would like to share my current situation with all of you.
Actually, airplanes and blue skies are my big passion ever, and I really would like to become a professional pilot, but due to several issues up to now I could not fulfill my dream. I took different path from my young age : I got my master degree in business and during my working experience I have changed some kind of jobs. Now I'm working in the sales and marketing field for a multinational company, but I feel some " empty"in myself and I really would like to think a change in my life.
I'm not married and I don't have any kids. I could have the possibility to join an integrated course and trying to get the ATPL frozen in something like 15 months.
I don't need to make any mortage for finance my training.
I got my PPL (A) a couple of years ago, but considering my age (34years old) I think that the only way to get the licenses in short time is to apply in an integrated course and dedicate 100% of my time to this. Frankly for me it is not reasonable thinking to proceed with a modular route while I'm continuing working. My job absorb a tremendous quantity of time and a energy and personally I' m really not able to successfully conduct Both!
i don't want to be boring for anybody, but the question is always the same... do you think that if I take this decision, at the age of 36 when I get the licenses, is still possible to get a job or it is just a dream?
Honestly I'm open to move and to be relocated all over the world..that' s is not a problem. What I'm warried is to spend 70k€ without get any kind of possibility to work.
Another question, someone of you know the AFTA in cork or the GAIR in Portugal? Do you have any feedback on these?

FlyNorth24

I am in a pretty much similar situation, and I will be starting my training during the spring next year, so I would say that we are not old. Regarding the family... well, it's not easy, and I am not happy about it, but luckily for me, she is supporting me.
Good luck!

Dusker

Great Posts, rich information. At age 41, single, I'm looking into modular training in Europe via Wings Alliance, though I'm a US citizen and hear that may further count against for employment there due to EU residency preference first for jobs there(?) I am curious whether anyone has thoughts on best place in the world to secure employment for older, low hr. pilot who would have CPL, MEP, IR and maybe MCC

Dusker

I know in US min. requirement to be commercial pilot is 1500 hrs. heard in European countries it's more like 250, which it used to be here. That doesn't apply to ferry pilots though, not sure about corporate jet pilots.

Ax82

Does someone has any information, feedback or experience on wings alliance?

jamesgrainge

I have a friend who is around 40, struggling to get employed as more than an FI. And he is literally a perfect fit for an airline so make your own judgements, time is probably of the essence but not crucial.

dboy

I admire the people here, starting at older age and still have the drive to find that first job. I was also like that 13 years ago. But things has changed. Somehow as a prof. pilot you also see the otherside of the medal, novelty wears off. What i find the hardest part of the job is that you always have to be flexible to move away to another base, abroad, away from home.

Me, i dont have a family,nor children nor girlfriend. Some say it is a blessing for this job. Well I can assure you, it is not! If you are based abroad, (commuting is not always possible) away from friends, all alone on your apartment on your off days or coming back from your duty in an empty house, no one to talk to......i find it really hard and after all these years, i still can not get used to it. Than that flying job is not that important anymore.

So my advice: be careful what you wish for. If you can do some freelance flying close at home. Take it and enjoy.

Sirbismuth

Well, reading this thread, I must be positively insane!

I am 41, and in January am starting an 18-month journey that will see me emerge at the end with a CPL/ME with IR, type-rated on a 737-800, and a bunch of endorsements. I will be about halfway to 44 at the end of that. One regional airline has a cutoff of 35, and they don't even operate 737s.

The more insane part is the whack of cash I am throwing at it.

Someone talk me out of it, lol!

What is my end-game, I would be 100% happy if someone is paying me to fly, whether it's crop-dusters or 737s, or whatever is going. Yes, I will be competing with people who are younger than me, probably fitter than me, with more hours and ratings. So what, like I said, give me something to fly, some small change, and I will be happy.

Ok, in 18 months will be halfway to a degree in Aviation Management as well, so maybe they will let me polish the crop dusters or 737s as well?

Maybe I will p-off the experienced guys with the ratings and hours, as I will probably be willing to go in on a lower payscale, as I won't have the same hours or time on type as them?

MAYBE, I will regret this move I am making, who knows.

I won't know all of the above if I don't try at least. So, like I said, anyone want to try to talk me out of it, I am all ears?

Dusker

Marlon B,

Do you feel it'd be harder still for older low hr US citizen looking for job in Europe?
Thanks for comments

Applesauce

Hi everyone. I'm new here and considering looking into training.

I am 37, female, happily childfree (so no kids to consider in terms of costs or schedules), Australian.

Strangely enough I am a very nervous passenger but I don't have the same feeling about the cockpit. I don't know why, maybe it's a control thing. I love planes so much, I think they're like big, beautiful animals.

Obviously with training you start small, but I can't shake the desire to fly a commercial jet at some point. Anyway I'm still very new to the idea that this might be something I could do, so we'll see.

andy148

I don't believe your ever too old to start..

It looks like airlines are now starting to lift the age ban on applications, BAFPP, Gen easy jet, Virgin MPL all have no upper age limit. From talking to people and from looking at the Facebook profiles of the schools, it looks like there is a large spread of experience in new cadets. From someone on the BAFPP last year, he said there lots of people in their 40's applying.

But that said, you'll have to think long and hard about if it's worth it (financially and emotionally). But it looks like everyones on a flat playing field now. You've got to be in to to win it though.

Paul H

I'd like to pass on a little hope to most of you 'older' trainees.

I (as most of you) began my journey a very long time ago, perhaps at the age of 6 or 7 (mid 80's). Living in the flight path to an airport certainly helped me get by any slow days as a child, head always held high watching all the aircraft skim my parents house on an 8 mile final to Birmingham airport.
After approx 15 years of dreaming, I left college and headed off to Uni in 2001 aged 21 under the impression I would never be able to afford flight training. I finished in 2006 and thought "If I don't do it now, I never will".

After a long wait looking for work and moving across the country, twice, I started working for a delivery company near London and started my PPL in March 2008 aged 27. My PPL took me two and a half years to finish, with 67 hrs to my name, completing my skills test on Sept 2nd 2010 aged 29.

6 Months later I moved to Bournemouth and started my ATPL ground school at BCFT and finished in Nov 2011.

I spent the next 20 months working in dead end job, paying minimum wage (and sometimes, less), before eventually scraping every penny I had together to move back to Bournemouth and start my CPL/ME/IR in July 2013. I completed them all by Dec 2013, and was then very fortunate to get employed by my ATO as an instructor, where I've been ever since.

For a number of reasons, I didn't apply to any airlines until early this year aged 34, including a recommendation to flybe in April, which unfortunately was canceled at the 11th hour when CTC took over the recruitment.

I've since applied to a number of companies, from the channel islands, to Singapore. Although I was starting to become impatient, I was lucky enough to be offered two interviews in 24 hours at the end of Oct.

The first company I applied to required me to pass multiple online tests over 4 weeks before a phone interview (without warning). After the phone call I was offered an interview and assessment day with 29 other people over two days. The day consisted of a 90 minute face to face interview, group tests, and an advance compass test. In all it took 7 hours.
A few days later I was contacted and offered a sim assessment. After forking out a painful £700 for some practice at Virtual aviation in Cambridge, I headed to the training center and spent an hour or so in a sim (757) with two training captains and did what I was told.
3 days later I got a call telling me I had passed the assessment, but would need to wait a few more weeks for the final decision.

That magical call came yesterday morning. I've been offered a job flying 737s. The contract is in the post, and I start in January.

The total process has taking me almost 9 years from the my first flying lesson.

Stop dreaming and be active in your pursuits. Keep pushing, keep applying, keep current and be patient.
I have friends in their late 40s getting their first job.

Best of luck. Feel free to ask questions.

I am reluctant to mention my new employer, as I do not wish to drag them into an online conversation.

Sleeve Wing

First of all, Paul, sincere congratulations. You deserve what you’ve achieved

You really applied yourself, never gave up and now have made the opportunity to get on with the job you’ve always dreamt of.
Now you’ll need all of the qualities you’ve shown to continue and progress in the business.

There’ll be times when you get fed up of not enough time at home with the family.
There’ll be times when you’re so tired you’ll wonder which way is up.
You’ll get fed up of the times when, every 6 months, someone tries to pull your skills apart, tries to find fault with your flying and yet still you’ll get through with the same enthusiasm you’ve obviously always shown.
There’ll be times when you wonder if you’re really valued when, once again, salaries are frozen to “help the company get through the downturn”. You just tighten your financial belt and try and ride it as you’ve always done. It usually sorts itself in the end.
As you get older, these irritations will seem to be more important. Your medical will eventually show signs of letting you down and yet, still, you’ll get your head down and cope.
All these travails will reveal themselves in your coming career. Be ready for them and devise mechanisms and a health regime to carry you through.

Flying is the best career in the world; never forget that when it gets tough or when some sh*t tries to spoil it.
Plan your career from now on with these thoughts in mind and you'll have a wonderful, rewarding time ahead.

I’m just coming to the end after 57 years as a professional pilot. I don’t regret a minute of it.

77w80du

well, its been 2 years since my last post on here - www.pprune.org/interviews-jobs-sponsorship/504192-have-you-given-up-3.html#post8430036


I have done some PA31 freight work (on IFR ops) since.


am now seeking recommendations for pilot career guidance/counselling in Australia (plse P.M/inbox me)?
Am working away at ATPL subject but the problem will always remain how/where to get those first 1000hrs without an instructors rating and/or parachute drop rating?
I'm 36 and need to be realistic with career choices, funding your IFR renewals, Medicals from your savings, whilst living on GA income becomes unsustainable real quick!
I have gone back to doing Airline maintenance to cover ATPL theory, IFR renewals & Medicals. My LAME does not cover any GA aircraft types and it will remain this way, as this only leads to exploitation. I do not intend on leaving an Airline MRO employer to GA unless its for a pilot role. For now getting ATPL subjects done is an ongoing process & only when they are ALL passed, will I again seek flying work.


Thanks in advance for any suggestions/feedback.

s4ex

Perhaps I'm missing something, but it doesn't add up. Your doing PA31 freight work on IFR ops suggests that You have CPL/IR at least, if so, isn't it the requirement in Australia to have ATPL theory passed before qualifying for CPL/IR ?

s4ex

Ok, apologies. Should've looked into CASA regulations before questioning.
Now seem to become a little bit smarter