Too Late To Train?
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Too Late To Train?
Well here we go I am throwing myself open for all types of comments and issues here but its following my dream that I find important and all your wise and wonderful opinons -good- or bad will be appreciated!
The issue- I have just turned 40 years old in December and I have now resigned from my very secure job in the Superyacht Industry to follow my desire to spend the rest of my career days in the sky flying commercially.
I have researched extensively the various routes and issues facing this challenge to get myself to the point of being able to sit in an interview for a job in the cckpit! I have a very realistic outlook on what lies ahead.
What I really am lacking in my reseach is proof or comment from fellow mature aviators who have taken the plunge this late in their flying career.
I would really appreciate any info or comment from you all regarding this issue.
I currently need to revalidate my PPL with approx 160 hrs to date. I have a night rating. I am researching the most time efficient and financially acceptable route...come on guys help an old boy out here with your thoughts!!!
Do you think I am completely insane?
Is it your opinion that its simply too late in the day?
Best regards to all.
The issue- I have just turned 40 years old in December and I have now resigned from my very secure job in the Superyacht Industry to follow my desire to spend the rest of my career days in the sky flying commercially.
I have researched extensively the various routes and issues facing this challenge to get myself to the point of being able to sit in an interview for a job in the cckpit! I have a very realistic outlook on what lies ahead.
What I really am lacking in my reseach is proof or comment from fellow mature aviators who have taken the plunge this late in their flying career.
I would really appreciate any info or comment from you all regarding this issue.
I currently need to revalidate my PPL with approx 160 hrs to date. I have a night rating. I am researching the most time efficient and financially acceptable route...come on guys help an old boy out here with your thoughts!!!
Do you think I am completely insane?
Is it your opinion that its simply too late in the day?
Best regards to all.
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Hi cliff, im more then half your age and im still new to this industry aswell but from what i've read on here i will try to help a bit!
From what i can gather, doing a modular course for your fATPL is alot cheaper then an intergrated course. Modular is 40k and intergrated is around 70/80k
Then you need to do a type rating which is like another 20k. Im really going on what i've read on these forums so it might not be 100% accurate but people like fly_antonov, redsnail and WWW have a much better idea.
I dont think 40 is too old, infact i think some airliners prefer to recruit older more mature pilots. But be realistic, now is a very bad time to start training (unless it picks up after your training). Pilots with alot more experience and experience on type are being laid off and cant find jobs. Theres a huge back log of low houred pilots looking for work.
My advice would be, if you can afford all the training without going into debt then go for it. However i wouldnt go into debt with the current situation of the industry because you will be very lucky to get a flying job.
This is very brief and reflects my knowledge of the industry but i thought i'd give it a shot! As mentioned before wait for the more experienced people to post before making any choices.
From what i can gather, doing a modular course for your fATPL is alot cheaper then an intergrated course. Modular is 40k and intergrated is around 70/80k
Then you need to do a type rating which is like another 20k. Im really going on what i've read on these forums so it might not be 100% accurate but people like fly_antonov, redsnail and WWW have a much better idea.
I dont think 40 is too old, infact i think some airliners prefer to recruit older more mature pilots. But be realistic, now is a very bad time to start training (unless it picks up after your training). Pilots with alot more experience and experience on type are being laid off and cant find jobs. Theres a huge back log of low houred pilots looking for work.
My advice would be, if you can afford all the training without going into debt then go for it. However i wouldnt go into debt with the current situation of the industry because you will be very lucky to get a flying job.
This is very brief and reflects my knowledge of the industry but i thought i'd give it a shot! As mentioned before wait for the more experienced people to post before making any choices.
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Cliff check out this thread, this will be relevent to your situation
http://www.pprune.org/professional-p...hing-34-a.html
And also this
http://www.pprune.org/professional-p...ml#post5024525
http://www.pprune.org/professional-p...hing-34-a.html
And also this
http://www.pprune.org/professional-p...ml#post5024525
Supercharged PPRuNer
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I'd be more worried about the state of the job market than your age. It's quite possible to get into the industry in your forties, but only if there are jobs available - which at the moment, there aren't.
Realistically, at least 2 - 3 years before we see significant recruitment of low-houred guys.
Realistically, at least 2 - 3 years before we see significant recruitment of low-houred guys.
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By the way Shaun, fly_antonov hasn't got a clue what he is talking about he has only got a PPL and talks about issues he has no experience in, he goes off what he is told! But enough about him.
If we all predict that the market will be a lot better for low houred guys in about 1-3 years wouldn't you think now would be a good time to train, seeing as it takes about that time for a modular guy to finish training whilst working?
The problem people will have (IMHO one of the reasons this country is doomed) is that when the market does pick up, there is no trained or skilled people for the jobs so companies will hire foreign guys to do the work. And IMHO thats whats been going on in all trades, the best time to train is now!! when there is no jobs, so when the jobs do come along in about 2 years time you will be there all trained up ready to go, not start a 2-3 year training course then the market slows down once your finished.
If we all predict that the market will be a lot better for low houred guys in about 1-3 years wouldn't you think now would be a good time to train, seeing as it takes about that time for a modular guy to finish training whilst working?
The problem people will have (IMHO one of the reasons this country is doomed) is that when the market does pick up, there is no trained or skilled people for the jobs so companies will hire foreign guys to do the work. And IMHO thats whats been going on in all trades, the best time to train is now!! when there is no jobs, so when the jobs do come along in about 2 years time you will be there all trained up ready to go, not start a 2-3 year training course then the market slows down once your finished.
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I don't understand the posts stating that people can know nothing about the aviation industry because they 'only have a PPL' even with passing the ATPL exams you have only studied things like nav, met etc and they give you no insight into the industry.
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I think the key phrase is 'talks about issues he has no experience in' in the above comment.
A PPL guy cant really rant about issues about FR if he has no experience him self. If it was quoted then fair enough but passing it as your own is a different story.
Its a bit like a child telling an adult how it is, the adult will soon tell the kid to be quiet, till he/her has got some life experience
A PPL guy cant really rant about issues about FR if he has no experience him self. If it was quoted then fair enough but passing it as your own is a different story.
Its a bit like a child telling an adult how it is, the adult will soon tell the kid to be quiet, till he/her has got some life experience
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Cliff,
In September 2005, I posted what became a 2-page thread entitled 'Career prospects for a career-changer....aged 42' - the link's below for anyone who want's a read.
After completing my fATPL in June 2008, I spent about three months looking for work, had an interview up in ABZ with bmir (which didn't come to anything), did an FI rating back at the FTO where I did my own training, teaching PPL and more recently CPL on Cessnas and Diamonds to a mix of sponsored and self-sponsored cadets (a job I loved btw, for anyone considering the instructing route, short or long-term). I now have just under 800hrs TT. This week I was offered a FO's position on a turboprop with a UK regional airline, TR paid for and unbonded. I'll be 48 next birthday.
I could probably write books based on my own experience on what helps and hinders in 'persuing the dream'. You basically need to be current, work extremely hard, be determined and persistent as hell, have access to funding (I am in some debt, but not up to my neck in it), be personable and good with colleagues and customers (the 'non-stick and rudder skills' that a poster refered to in my original post), network like crazy, and finally enjoy a certain amount of luck along the way. Did I ever consider giving up at any stage? Well yes, sometimes, to be honest. Getting a job means making sacrifices (I'm going to need to temporarily relocate to do this, leaving a wife, home, lifestyle and football season-ticket to do this) - it's not easy.
I'm not going to say you'll get a job, although by the time you're ready to start looking for one I'm sure things will be looking brighter in the industry. I just wanted to point out that it CAN be done given the right circumstances and opportunties, and anyone writing-off the 'over-30s or 40's' would be wise to take note.
I wish you the best of luck in whatever you decide to do.
HW
http://www.pprune.org/interviews-job...aged-42-a.html
In September 2005, I posted what became a 2-page thread entitled 'Career prospects for a career-changer....aged 42' - the link's below for anyone who want's a read.
After completing my fATPL in June 2008, I spent about three months looking for work, had an interview up in ABZ with bmir (which didn't come to anything), did an FI rating back at the FTO where I did my own training, teaching PPL and more recently CPL on Cessnas and Diamonds to a mix of sponsored and self-sponsored cadets (a job I loved btw, for anyone considering the instructing route, short or long-term). I now have just under 800hrs TT. This week I was offered a FO's position on a turboprop with a UK regional airline, TR paid for and unbonded. I'll be 48 next birthday.
I could probably write books based on my own experience on what helps and hinders in 'persuing the dream'. You basically need to be current, work extremely hard, be determined and persistent as hell, have access to funding (I am in some debt, but not up to my neck in it), be personable and good with colleagues and customers (the 'non-stick and rudder skills' that a poster refered to in my original post), network like crazy, and finally enjoy a certain amount of luck along the way. Did I ever consider giving up at any stage? Well yes, sometimes, to be honest. Getting a job means making sacrifices (I'm going to need to temporarily relocate to do this, leaving a wife, home, lifestyle and football season-ticket to do this) - it's not easy.
I'm not going to say you'll get a job, although by the time you're ready to start looking for one I'm sure things will be looking brighter in the industry. I just wanted to point out that it CAN be done given the right circumstances and opportunties, and anyone writing-off the 'over-30s or 40's' would be wise to take note.
I wish you the best of luck in whatever you decide to do.
HW
http://www.pprune.org/interviews-job...aged-42-a.html
Airlines stopped caring about your age roughly a decade ago. The days of airlines wanting to hire an FO who would progress to do 40 years in the company are long long gone. To be frank, as long as you're young enough to see out your bond or pay off your loan before die then that's good enough these days.
WWW
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I'd be more worried about the state of the job market than your age. It's quite possible to get into the industry in your forties, but only if there are jobs available - which at the moment, there aren't.
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Medical first.
Get a Class 1 medical cert. first. The initial for over 40's is no cake-walk. You will need a Class 1 for an airline job I believe.
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I started an integrated course in September 2008 at the age of 39. ( I know about ther timing issue!) The industry is on it's knees at the moment but it seems to me that when there is an upturn, and there will be one eventually, as long as you are capable of operating safely and in line with SOP's that age is not the issue that it was once upon at time, so don't worry too much about that. Also consider corporate options.
Perhaps the best piece of advice I can offer is that you must not under-estimate just how hard the road ahead is. It can be tough and lonely. It will obliterate your social life and your family will get very fed up with constant airline/training conversation. This may cause you some pressure. My partner has been astoundingly supportive but she is now growing weary of the constant slog. I managed to lose the glideslope due to a sudden headwind with 100 feet to DA this morning in my Instrument Rating and partialled it. Whilst I am really gutted about it, I can't change it now so will have to get on with it and not do it again. The worst thing was telling my partner that it isn't over yet and I still have another three weeks to go. This takes me out of the running for a holiday to dee her parents on their 50th wedding anniversary. It sucks but this is life now, you really should be aware of these issues.
Perhaps the best piece of advice I can offer is that you must not under-estimate just how hard the road ahead is. It can be tough and lonely. It will obliterate your social life and your family will get very fed up with constant airline/training conversation. This may cause you some pressure. My partner has been astoundingly supportive but she is now growing weary of the constant slog. I managed to lose the glideslope due to a sudden headwind with 100 feet to DA this morning in my Instrument Rating and partialled it. Whilst I am really gutted about it, I can't change it now so will have to get on with it and not do it again. The worst thing was telling my partner that it isn't over yet and I still have another three weeks to go. This takes me out of the running for a holiday to dee her parents on their 50th wedding anniversary. It sucks but this is life now, you really should be aware of these issues.
Last edited by Gentle Climb; 19th Feb 2010 at 15:17.
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I managed to lose the glideslope due to a sudden headwind with 100 feet to DA this morning in my Instrument Rating and partialled it
Personally I would hire a guy of 40 .
More mature, more precise, more professional than a 20 yo rayban wanabe!
congrat for your "partial".
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Cliff, it's all been said already, however, given the majority of growth is in the Emirates and Asia you would not qualify at you age as the " experience commensurate with age" clause creeps in. At Qatar, you can apply as an FO up to 45 yrs old, but you would need 2000hrs, which means you would need to get a move on! Regional TPs are probably your best target.
The road from where you are to where you want to be is tough One issue is the study, if you can "Gel" with guys half your age it helps, however, dont expect to progress at the same rate, they don't have the baggage you do so don't beat yourself up if you drop behind a bit.
There are still some HR managers you can actually talk to in this industry, they don't have an axe to grind so will tell it as it is.
Reality is "we all regret the things we didn't do"
Best of luck
The road from where you are to where you want to be is tough One issue is the study, if you can "Gel" with guys half your age it helps, however, dont expect to progress at the same rate, they don't have the baggage you do so don't beat yourself up if you drop behind a bit.
There are still some HR managers you can actually talk to in this industry, they don't have an axe to grind so will tell it as it is.
Reality is "we all regret the things we didn't do"
Best of luck
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Thank you for your opinion, very kind, I am so pleased to receive such a large amount of support.. I am gonna go for it and booking my Class 1 tomorrow, thanks again. Best regards
I am gonna go for it and booking my Class 1 tomorrow, thanks again. Best regards
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punk666
the best time to train is now!! when there is no jobs, so when the jobs do come along in about 2 years time you will be there all trained up ready to go, not start a 2-3 year training course then the market slows down once your finished.
Absolutely! I started in 2001, and was doing my PPL on September 11th of the same year! Everyone said I was wasting my time and money, and the industry was dead for 10 years. I got employed as an instructor in 2004 and then as an FO on a 737 in 2005. Then they were crying out for pilots. In 2012 I believe the same will happen. No recruits due recession, expansion due recovery.
Someone said once "It's better to have tried and failed, than not to have tried at all"
Live your dream. Don't ask, don't dither, don't worry, JUST DO IT!!!!
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Guys that's so helpful, I just got my ppl and started my ATPL Ground learning from distance. I'm 35 this year and was doupting the possibility of achieving my dream, but from what you said, it seems like never too late.
Fortunately I have a very supporting wife and a secure job in Dubai that helps a lot financially.
From what you guys said, I'll try as hard as I can to achieve my dream, and if I couldn't, then at least I've tried and wont be frustrated with myself.
Thanks guys.
Fortunately I have a very supporting wife and a secure job in Dubai that helps a lot financially.
From what you guys said, I'll try as hard as I can to achieve my dream, and if I couldn't, then at least I've tried and wont be frustrated with myself.
Thanks guys.
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Gentle Climb,
You partial isn't a problem. From reading your post I'm thinking that you should drop the onus on an unexpected headwind and examine you're own performance more critically then you'll find the experience is interview gold dust!! I partialled by my CPL and IR and yet managed a jet job with 300 hours in my forties. Jesus, If I can....
You partial isn't a problem. From reading your post I'm thinking that you should drop the onus on an unexpected headwind and examine you're own performance more critically then you'll find the experience is interview gold dust!! I partialled by my CPL and IR and yet managed a jet job with 300 hours in my forties. Jesus, If I can....
