Modular V Integrated (Merged) - Look here before starting a new thread!
Joined: Aug 2024
Posts: 4
Likes: 0
From: Sevenoaks
PPL first, CPL last. You can do everything in between in any order you like, but there is an optimum. IRR is 15 hours (it's also called IMC) it's basically an 'IR-light' which allows you to fly IMC , build 15 IFR hours then do a 10 hour course to 'top-up' to a full SEIR (40 hours total) Or a 15 hour course for MEIR (45 hours total) if you prefer. The SEIR to MEIR conversion minimums are 2 hours and 3 Sim, so it's obviously significantly cheaper to get SEIR first. There is also a fully taught version of the CBIR where you do 40/45 hours, and obviously schools will try to sell you the most expensive one.
Your PPL and its' SEP class rating allows you to fly SEP, getting an SEIR allows you to fly it in IMC. You'll need a separate MEP rating to fly MEPs before you can get your MEIR, so its 4 tests. You can do 3 flight tests if you go straight to MEIR without doing SEIR, or if you combine the CPL and MEP and do the MEIR last (the traditional route). Neither of those would make sense.
Also understand that the PPL and CPL are licences, everything else is a rating. If you get your MEP after your PPL then you can do your CPL test in an SEP and your MEP rating will be transferred onto it. To keep your total hours at 200 you need to do the CPL last, since you'll already have done the MEP and MEIR you'll only need to do a 15 hour single engine CPL course.
There are many ways to end up with a CPL and MEIR, but in my opinion PPL, NIGHT, IRR, SECBIR, MEP, MEIR, SECPL is the optimum order if your primary concern is cost. Breakdown is 200 hours, 76 Dual, 100 PIC and 24 hours in your back pocket for going over minimums.
Your PPL and its' SEP class rating allows you to fly SEP, getting an SEIR allows you to fly it in IMC. You'll need a separate MEP rating to fly MEPs before you can get your MEIR, so its 4 tests. You can do 3 flight tests if you go straight to MEIR without doing SEIR, or if you combine the CPL and MEP and do the MEIR last (the traditional route). Neither of those would make sense.
Also understand that the PPL and CPL are licences, everything else is a rating. If you get your MEP after your PPL then you can do your CPL test in an SEP and your MEP rating will be transferred onto it. To keep your total hours at 200 you need to do the CPL last, since you'll already have done the MEP and MEIR you'll only need to do a 15 hour single engine CPL course.
There are many ways to end up with a CPL and MEIR, but in my opinion PPL, NIGHT, IRR, SECBIR, MEP, MEIR, SECPL is the optimum order if your primary concern is cost. Breakdown is 200 hours, 76 Dual, 100 PIC and 24 hours in your back pocket for going over minimums.
Joined: Aug 2024
Posts: 4
Likes: 0
From: Sevenoaks
Hello all. Having spent a good time reading through this very useful forum I’ve done some research and put together a plan. However I’d appreciate any advice on this and if I’m way out…
PPL - 45hrs, £7k.
(Over next 18mths fly x4/mth while doing ATPL)
ATPLs - £3k.
Night rating - 5hrs @£195 instructed, £1k.
UPTR - 5hrs, £1.4k.
IR(r) - 15hrs @£195, £3.5k.
Fly solo IFR - 15hrs @£160, £2.4k
SEIR ‘top up’ course - 10hrs @£225 instructed £2.3k. (I now have SEIR)
(18mths later total 65hrs over weekends (£4k) & total 160hrs flight time)
MEP - 6hrs @£500, £3.5k.
MEIR ‘top-up’ course - 5hrs @£500, £2.5k. (MEIR now achieved).
Solo hour build - 24hrs @£160, £4k. (Now at 195hrs).
CPL - 25hrs @£225 instructed, £8k.
APSMCC - £5k.
A grand total of 220 hrs & £47,600.
To clarify the PPL is only £7k due to scholarships. My club has cheap rental of £160 solo hire and £195 with instructor. £225/hr is with another school as my club doesn’t offer some ratings. The numbers might be a bit out due to rounding.
To get a MEIR, am I correct in thinking that I can get an IR(r) doing 15hrs instructed. Then fly solo 15hrs under IFR and then doing 10hrs instructed training to get a full SEIR? After this, doing a MEP (6hrs) and then doing a 5hrs ‘top up’ course instructed to convert SEIR to MEIR?
Thanks in advance to any responses.
PPL - 45hrs, £7k.
(Over next 18mths fly x4/mth while doing ATPL)
ATPLs - £3k.
Night rating - 5hrs @£195 instructed, £1k.
UPTR - 5hrs, £1.4k.
IR(r) - 15hrs @£195, £3.5k.
Fly solo IFR - 15hrs @£160, £2.4k
SEIR ‘top up’ course - 10hrs @£225 instructed £2.3k. (I now have SEIR)
(18mths later total 65hrs over weekends (£4k) & total 160hrs flight time)
MEP - 6hrs @£500, £3.5k.
MEIR ‘top-up’ course - 5hrs @£500, £2.5k. (MEIR now achieved).
Solo hour build - 24hrs @£160, £4k. (Now at 195hrs).
CPL - 25hrs @£225 instructed, £8k.
APSMCC - £5k.
A grand total of 220 hrs & £47,600.
To clarify the PPL is only £7k due to scholarships. My club has cheap rental of £160 solo hire and £195 with instructor. £225/hr is with another school as my club doesn’t offer some ratings. The numbers might be a bit out due to rounding.
To get a MEIR, am I correct in thinking that I can get an IR(r) doing 15hrs instructed. Then fly solo 15hrs under IFR and then doing 10hrs instructed training to get a full SEIR? After this, doing a MEP (6hrs) and then doing a 5hrs ‘top up’ course instructed to convert SEIR to MEIR?
Thanks in advance to any responses.
Joined: Dec 2005
Aviation Qualifications: ATPL
Posts: 4,970
Likes: 326
From: Hong Kong
It's quite reasonable, but not exactly optimal. if I may critique:
7k is a bargain for a PPL while 160 seems a little high for hour building (but obviously you're limited to what's available nearby).
Why 220 hours? You could shave 20 hours off the total and make it 200 hours.
If you already hold an IR then the CPL course is only 15 hours.
I would try to use the same aircraft for IRR and CBIR so I would expect the rate to be the same.
Don't forget to include successful flight tests in your PIC and total times (and flight test and licencing fees in your budget!)
Your PIC hours add up to 114 (10 PPL + 15 IMC + 65 + 24) so you can knock off 20 hours and add in 6 for testing etc. You only need 100.
Your PIC and XC hour building will need to be adjusted slightly and slotted into the training program to reflect the prerequisites of each course.
Follow a few simple rules to make your training easier:
1. Know what you need to log and don't waste flight hours: an ideal flight hour would be PIC cross country. In IMC. At night.
2. Don't learn anything in the airplane. You're not paying by the hour to learn, you're paying to practice. (Learning is free.)
3. Backseat at every opportunity.
4. Chair fly.
And remember this is just a plan. It's what you hope will happen. Reality will jump in and F*ck !!!!! up for you.
7k is a bargain for a PPL while 160 seems a little high for hour building (but obviously you're limited to what's available nearby).
Why 220 hours? You could shave 20 hours off the total and make it 200 hours.
If you already hold an IR then the CPL course is only 15 hours.
I would try to use the same aircraft for IRR and CBIR so I would expect the rate to be the same.
Don't forget to include successful flight tests in your PIC and total times (and flight test and licencing fees in your budget!)
Your PIC hours add up to 114 (10 PPL + 15 IMC + 65 + 24) so you can knock off 20 hours and add in 6 for testing etc. You only need 100.
Your PIC and XC hour building will need to be adjusted slightly and slotted into the training program to reflect the prerequisites of each course.
Follow a few simple rules to make your training easier:
1. Know what you need to log and don't waste flight hours: an ideal flight hour would be PIC cross country. In IMC. At night.
2. Don't learn anything in the airplane. You're not paying by the hour to learn, you're paying to practice. (Learning is free.)
3. Backseat at every opportunity.
4. Chair fly.
And remember this is just a plan. It's what you hope will happen. Reality will jump in and F*ck !!!!! up for you.
Last edited by rudestuff; 19th September 2024 at 05:21.
Joined: May 2024
Posts: 82
Likes: 2
From: United Kingdom
Can anyone advise on using two schools to get where I need?
I have found a school near me that will do everything up to Meir but I am on a waiting list to join as they are at full capacity.
There is another school which is on my doorstep but only does PPL and Imc/night rating but is £125 an hour so would be ideal as a source to hour build. I would just use the other flying school to do ME and cbir se/me. Do flight schools generally allow you to come in like that or do they prefer you to be from the beginning?
For me being 38 time is of the essence. Ideally I want to be done in two years by my 40th. I would be planning to do as many hours as I can get a week as I already have the funds needed.
I am planning to visit both in person during the week to discuss with both flying schools but thought I would ask here first if anyone has done similar?
I have found a school near me that will do everything up to Meir but I am on a waiting list to join as they are at full capacity.
There is another school which is on my doorstep but only does PPL and Imc/night rating but is £125 an hour so would be ideal as a source to hour build. I would just use the other flying school to do ME and cbir se/me. Do flight schools generally allow you to come in like that or do they prefer you to be from the beginning?
For me being 38 time is of the essence. Ideally I want to be done in two years by my 40th. I would be planning to do as many hours as I can get a week as I already have the funds needed.
I am planning to visit both in person during the week to discuss with both flying schools but thought I would ask here first if anyone has done similar?
Joined: Oct 2013
Posts: 26
Likes: 0
From: UK
So, I am 20 years old, live in Hertfordshire, done A level, and worked for a couple of years a software engineer apprentice in a large multinational company, before that I worked for a year in retail (part-time) and with my saving and parent support now in the position to start training to achieve fATPL full time. I've started a few PPL lessons, but still undecided whether to go modular or integrated. I've read in details the post and suggestion regarding modular vs integrated here. And I think my option down to the following:
Modular
PPL in local flying school, as cheap and as quickly as possible.
NR, IR(R)
ATPL theory (dual licence, BGS)
Hour buildings as suggested by rudestuff
50 hours, then SE-IR
20 hours, the MEP+ME-IR
30 hours, SE-CPL
(please advise school for the CPL-ME-IR that are reputable but accommodative to the approach, Stapleford? Aero seems to be not getting good review here)
APS-MCC (thinking about going to VA)
Realistic employer: Ryan Air (dual licence+30K TR), Wizzair (dual licence+30K TR), LoganAir (UK CAA)-bonded TR, Jet2 (UK CAA)-bonded TR. Other employer with smaller opening Aurigny, Titan. Small chance for BA, and super slim chance to go to Easyjet.
MPL
Easyjet Generation, issue with delays, but cost wise I think would be similar to modular (TR cost considered, modular to RYR and Wizz probably more expensive)
Integrated (most expensive and no guarantee of jobs, but might be more predictable?)
It seems only two are reliable enough
Skyborne, airline options similar to Modular, but maybe will give better chance to go to BA, Easyjet
FTE Jerez, airline options similar to Modular, but maybe will give better chance to go to BA, Easyjet
Considering the relatively good job market at this moment, My preference is as follow:
1. EasyMPL, for the overall cost and conditional job offer. Need to mentally prepare with the delay though
2. Modular, get fATPL ASAP, aiming end of next year (super optimistic I know), get into the job market asap when the it's still good.
3. Skyborne, haven't heard a bad thing about them in pprune, but just super expensive.
Need your input to validate/challenger my approach.
Regards,
F
Modular
PPL in local flying school, as cheap and as quickly as possible.
NR, IR(R)
ATPL theory (dual licence, BGS)
Hour buildings as suggested by rudestuff
50 hours, then SE-IR
20 hours, the MEP+ME-IR
30 hours, SE-CPL
(please advise school for the CPL-ME-IR that are reputable but accommodative to the approach, Stapleford? Aero seems to be not getting good review here)
APS-MCC (thinking about going to VA)
Realistic employer: Ryan Air (dual licence+30K TR), Wizzair (dual licence+30K TR), LoganAir (UK CAA)-bonded TR, Jet2 (UK CAA)-bonded TR. Other employer with smaller opening Aurigny, Titan. Small chance for BA, and super slim chance to go to Easyjet.
MPL
Easyjet Generation, issue with delays, but cost wise I think would be similar to modular (TR cost considered, modular to RYR and Wizz probably more expensive)
Integrated (most expensive and no guarantee of jobs, but might be more predictable?)
It seems only two are reliable enough
Skyborne, airline options similar to Modular, but maybe will give better chance to go to BA, Easyjet
FTE Jerez, airline options similar to Modular, but maybe will give better chance to go to BA, Easyjet
Considering the relatively good job market at this moment, My preference is as follow:
1. EasyMPL, for the overall cost and conditional job offer. Need to mentally prepare with the delay though
2. Modular, get fATPL ASAP, aiming end of next year (super optimistic I know), get into the job market asap when the it's still good.
3. Skyborne, haven't heard a bad thing about them in pprune, but just super expensive.
Need your input to validate/challenger my approach.
Regards,
F
Joined: Dec 2005
Aviation Qualifications: ATPL
Posts: 4,970
Likes: 326
From: Hong Kong
Skybus are looking for 7 FOs at the moment. When Skybus are going to flight schools looking for people to assess it's because they're hemorrhaging people to better jobs and you know the market is good. Timing is everything in aviation. Tagged/MPL schemes are the safest but also the most expensive. Failing that go for the quickest - which could also be the cheapest.
Joined: Mar 2012
Posts: 35
Likes: 1
From: uk
Hi.
Please can someone with recent experience give an opinion on a modular training plan.
What is a realistic time frame to complete all the flying including PPL ( ATPL Exams already passed )
Full time in the UK.
Thanks
Please can someone with recent experience give an opinion on a modular training plan.
What is a realistic time frame to complete all the flying including PPL ( ATPL Exams already passed )
Full time in the UK.
Thanks
Joined: Dec 2005
Aviation Qualifications: ATPL
Posts: 4,970
Likes: 326
From: Hong Kong
This is 'traditional' modular. It works but it's not optimal in terms of cost or training benefit. Doing all your hour building as a VFR PPL in one go means that you have no extra hours to keep current between modules later on, and you may end up inadvertently doing too much. At the very least get an IMC and hour build with that (it counts towards your IR) and save some hours for later - you'll want to practise CPL profiles etc. Also don't forget you get at least 10 hours PIC for your PPL, and you'll also log PIC for every flight test you pass (PPL, IMC, CBIR, MEP, MEIR) so account for those.
Joined: Feb 2025
Posts: 34
Likes: 0
From: Locarno
Excuse my ignorance, but can you take the (EASA) ATPL exams first without having a PPL (A) license at all? I understand that when following the integrated route, you often start with the ATPL theory... but what about the modular route? I tried this myself, and all the ATOs said that you must have a physical PPL (A) license before they accept you as a modular ATPL theory student. I’m very curious. Or did you start integrated, complete all the ATPL exams, and are now continuing modular?
Joined: Feb 2002
Posts: 324
Likes: 0
From: Sunny Solihull
If you are going Modular then you must have an ICAO PPL to start ATPL theory.
It is possible though rare that you start on an Integrated course and complete all your ATPLs but then for whatever reason decide to switch to Modular.
Your ATPL or CPL theory exams will then be credited towards your PPL. See UK CAA FCL.035.b
It is possible though rare that you start on an Integrated course and complete all your ATPLs but then for whatever reason decide to switch to Modular.
Your ATPL or CPL theory exams will then be credited towards your PPL. See UK CAA FCL.035.b
Joined: Feb 2025
Posts: 15
Likes: 0
From: United Kingdom
job opportunities after doing moduler
Hello Ive been planning on going moduler for my training but when i look at the main employers for peoples first airline jobs they seem to vastly prefer those who did intergrated or their own course (Easyjet,Ryainair,Vulving) however the main consensus online is that intergrated is a waste of money and it wont change anything when it comes to getting hired. So i dont know if i have misunderstood everything but any infomation would be great.
Joined: Feb 2025
Posts: 8
Likes: 0
From: United Kingdom
Hi all, theres a lot of good information on here which is really useful to me, so thank you. I'm finishing my Masters this year and looking to start flight training in the summer.
Apologies in advance for the lengthy post, but I would massively appreciate any input, if I may ask a few questions:
One option is the EasyJet MPL at CAE...but terrified of those delays and CAE incompetencies! The reason I'm still considering the MPL is for the job security and Type Rating, however I've heard that the job with EasyJet isn't guaranteed after finishing training, so can they really take £80k from you for the MPL and then just not hire you at the end of it and leave you with a useless licence? This, stacked on top of the horror stories I've been reading about the delays in the MPL at CAE, I'm wondering if its still a route worth considering? The reason it's attractive to me is EasyJet have brilliant training standards and BA hire directly from them, and I would like to end up at BA. I know there has been movement from EasyJet MPL to BA after 500hrs and this kind of recruitment will carry on for a few years (hopefully!)
My second option is Modular, which is what I'm currently leaning towards. I have a Mod Route planned out:
PPL - Local Flying Club
ATPL Theory - Bristol Ground School
Hour Building - Concurrent with ATPL Theory at Local Flying Club
MEP-R - Stapleford
CB-IR - Stapleford
CPL - Stapleford
AUPRT & APS MCC - Leading Edge Aviation
rudestuff, if you're reading this, I think this is more unless the route you suggest, but would you mind correcting me if theres a better optimal way to do this that might save me some cash? I saw that another option is IR(R), SE-IR, MEP, ME-IR?
These are my reasons for each stage:
PPL at my local club is £8.5k, which I believe is a real bargain at the moment.
ATPL with BGS, most affordable option, can take my time, can hour build over 6-7 months at home, potentially work part time to earn some cash.
Stapleford - best prices I could find and seemingly a reputable training provider.
Leading Edge - actually not unaffordable for a big school for this stage of training, seems like a very good course, A320 sim - enhancing job prospects to go into an A320 carrier like Easy or BA.
My questions about Modular are:
1. Are job prospects the same as going Integrated? I don't want to invest my life savings and be left struggling to find a job. I think I can mitigate this by going to Leading Edge for the final phase of training so I have their name on my CV, and would be able to utilise their industry links and contacts with airlines. Most of their students go directly to BA or EasyJet, which is my absolute dream scenario.
2. I heard that many airlines don't want more than 2-3 ATOs for the ATPL, IR/MEP/CPL, and MCC phases of training - so I think I'm safe with BGS, Stapleford, and Leading Edge?
If you've read all of my waffle and can provide any insight I would massively appreciate it, I think I may be repeating a couple of things mentioned previously on this thread, but just wanted to make sure information is up to date and I'm not making any silly decisions! I also hope this post and any replies will help others in my position.
Thank you all so much!
Apologies in advance for the lengthy post, but I would massively appreciate any input, if I may ask a few questions:
One option is the EasyJet MPL at CAE...but terrified of those delays and CAE incompetencies! The reason I'm still considering the MPL is for the job security and Type Rating, however I've heard that the job with EasyJet isn't guaranteed after finishing training, so can they really take £80k from you for the MPL and then just not hire you at the end of it and leave you with a useless licence? This, stacked on top of the horror stories I've been reading about the delays in the MPL at CAE, I'm wondering if its still a route worth considering? The reason it's attractive to me is EasyJet have brilliant training standards and BA hire directly from them, and I would like to end up at BA. I know there has been movement from EasyJet MPL to BA after 500hrs and this kind of recruitment will carry on for a few years (hopefully!)
My second option is Modular, which is what I'm currently leaning towards. I have a Mod Route planned out:
PPL - Local Flying Club
ATPL Theory - Bristol Ground School
Hour Building - Concurrent with ATPL Theory at Local Flying Club
MEP-R - Stapleford
CB-IR - Stapleford
CPL - Stapleford
AUPRT & APS MCC - Leading Edge Aviation
rudestuff, if you're reading this, I think this is more unless the route you suggest, but would you mind correcting me if theres a better optimal way to do this that might save me some cash? I saw that another option is IR(R), SE-IR, MEP, ME-IR?
These are my reasons for each stage:
PPL at my local club is £8.5k, which I believe is a real bargain at the moment.
ATPL with BGS, most affordable option, can take my time, can hour build over 6-7 months at home, potentially work part time to earn some cash.
Stapleford - best prices I could find and seemingly a reputable training provider.
Leading Edge - actually not unaffordable for a big school for this stage of training, seems like a very good course, A320 sim - enhancing job prospects to go into an A320 carrier like Easy or BA.
My questions about Modular are:
1. Are job prospects the same as going Integrated? I don't want to invest my life savings and be left struggling to find a job. I think I can mitigate this by going to Leading Edge for the final phase of training so I have their name on my CV, and would be able to utilise their industry links and contacts with airlines. Most of their students go directly to BA or EasyJet, which is my absolute dream scenario.
2. I heard that many airlines don't want more than 2-3 ATOs for the ATPL, IR/MEP/CPL, and MCC phases of training - so I think I'm safe with BGS, Stapleford, and Leading Edge?
If you've read all of my waffle and can provide any insight I would massively appreciate it, I think I may be repeating a couple of things mentioned previously on this thread, but just wanted to make sure information is up to date and I'm not making any silly decisions! I also hope this post and any replies will help others in my position.
Thank you all so much!
Joined: Dec 2005
Aviation Qualifications: ATPL
Posts: 4,970
Likes: 326
From: Hong Kong
There's optimal, there is suitable then there's convenient. You have to make your own decisions about what's important, like do you drive 2 hours to save £20 an hour on plane rental? Can you live at home or do you need accommodation? Can you train in vacation and weekends and keep your job?
The biggest money saver is getting everything done in 200 hours which means CPL last.
The next priority is cutting down (unnecessary) SIM hours, using real loggable flight time for IR training wherever you can.
Then study the requirements for each module: An MEIR requires 15 hours MEP, but as an add-on it only needs 2 hours, if you have an MEP rating you only need to do the CPL in an SEP etc...
Then study the prerequisites for each module: 70 PIC for MEP, 50XC PIC for IR ect... then you can order them correctly, filling the gaps with hour building.
Then compare, contrast and cost all the options and the most optimal (or suitable) will present itself.
The biggest money saver is getting everything done in 200 hours which means CPL last.
The next priority is cutting down (unnecessary) SIM hours, using real loggable flight time for IR training wherever you can.
Then study the requirements for each module: An MEIR requires 15 hours MEP, but as an add-on it only needs 2 hours, if you have an MEP rating you only need to do the CPL in an SEP etc...
Then study the prerequisites for each module: 70 PIC for MEP, 50XC PIC for IR ect... then you can order them correctly, filling the gaps with hour building.
Then compare, contrast and cost all the options and the most optimal (or suitable) will present itself.
Joined: Feb 2025
Posts: 34
Likes: 0
From: Locarno
This is based on my limited knowledge, do double check this info, I'm just a student like you.