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Modular V Integrated (Merged) - Look here before starting a new thread!

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Modular V Integrated (Merged) - Look here before starting a new thread!

Old 5th Jul 2010, 07:48
  #121 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: May 1999
Location: Bristol, England
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Easyjet starting to wriggle EZY stoops to new lows, trying to offer flexicrew permanent contracts at low salaries.
Alex Whittingham is offline  
Old 26th Jul 2010, 11:09
  #122 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
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Ex-Cityboy looks Skyward - Help please

Hello all,

Im 26 years old, and have recently resigned from a Headhunting Job in the City. I have harboured and interest in flying from a young age, and went gliding, did ATC etc...

Im considering getting becoming an airline pilot, I understand that I can get a loan, but fortunately I have saved up some cash which should cover the cost of training. However, I have heard heard the intergrated vs modular debate and am left a bit torn.

A school friend of mine went to CTC and is now at easy jet, he reckons that maybe modular is cheaper, but he thinks that you dont need the added stress of watching you bank balance ebb away when you are taking exams - requiring more landings etc..

Attractions of integration:
  • Learing alongside other people
  • support at hand
  • Campus life - Accom/Gym/stufy facilities etc
  • opportunity to fly abroad
  • Brand of some sort on your CV (worth anything?)
  • Completion - 16 months?
  • Multi Crew - type training included?
Modular
  • Faster completion?
  • Cheaper
  • ???
I understand that CTC/OAA etc are business and they must make money. However are they able to add cost savings by running courses for large numbers of people at one place.

So anyone with who has been there and don that, I would be very grateful to hear from you.
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Old 26th Jul 2010, 11:44
  #123 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: Europe
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the MAIN difference, imho which no one hardly ever mentions:

Modular means: You have to organize yourself and your training. Need to call instructors, organize your medical appointment yourself, pick the FTO for your PPL yourself, then think...maybe there's a better organisation for multi engine, enquire,............................, and so on.

It's work, active work. You have to look out for your ducks to keep them in a row. When will your medical lapse. How many more landings do you need, etc.

Integrated is largely (and I don't mean that disrespective):

Someone takes you by the hand, maybe gives you a uniform to train in, and literally walks you through the entire training until you're done. They'll make sure you do everything you need to do, have everything you need to have, make sure you know what's needed. It's less do it yourself and less planning for a higher price.

I am not endorsing either model, but (and I went modular...) in the end of the day, think about it like this:

Would you REALLY (I mean...R E A L L Y!?!) spend 100,000 (that's One Hundred Thousand) to get a license you can get for 50,000?!?!?!?

Don't get me wrong, maybe the integrated guy gets a job before I do...but 50,000 excess in cash he doesn't have is plenty to live on until you find a job.
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Old 26th Jul 2010, 11:50
  #124 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
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just to add something to your points mentioned (I guess I am endorsing modular after all ):

You can go fly abroad as much as you can as an integrated student. Again, more organizing needs to be done by yourself but you can.

I agree you'll miss out on the campus life, and you'll mostly study on your own, especially should you take a distance-learning GS course. It'll suck.

Integrated is not really faster either. If you have the money, and WANT to get it done ASAP, you can complete your courses modular in roughly the same time. The bonus is, that if you DON'T want to continue at that pace, for whatever reason, you can just stop, or fly just a few hours each month until you're ready to go again. Not really possible with integrated. Once you're in, you'll roughly know when you'll be out. Crap economy or not.

In the end of the day, think whether a name such as Oxford, Bristol or whatever is worth twice the price tag.

It's like paying $200,000 for a $100,000 Porsche because a Formula One driver will teach you how to drive it instead of a, say WRC driver
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Old 26th Jul 2010, 15:29
  #125 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
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Thanks for that,
Do integrated courses come at a discount if you already have a PPL? Im assuming there is one part of the course that you wont need to study ande examine for?
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Old 27th Jul 2010, 12:30
  #126 (permalink)  
 
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bobbydazzler84

No, not that I know of? In fact, already having a PPL will actually pre-clude you from most integrated schools as they want to mould you from zero to hero.

One of the obvious advantages of modular are that you can also work whilst training (have noted that you have resigned). Realistically you can work whilst doing your PPL, ATPL Theory and Hour Building. Most people generally go full time for their ME/CPL/IR, but it is not unheard of to do the lot part time.

Working at the same time can add issues, but you can also save a lot of cash and it's all about the bottom line figure that your bank balance tells you it cost to get your fATPL and not c £40k, £50k etc for a course. Modular also allows you to train as quickly or slowly as you like which has been invaluable for anyone starting in the past 2 years.

If you do a search there are several mod v int threads and make sure you read the 'CTC' thread if you haven't already as anyone finishing during the past year or so is probably is still swimming in the hold pool (but of course things can change in the next 2 yrs).

There is no right or wrong answer, it's horses for courses. It really is up to you how much the integrated style of training is worth and your own personal circumstances?

PS - just seen your comment about 'is type training included?' No, I believe CTC now charge c £25k for a Type Rating?
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Old 27th Jul 2010, 12:36
  #127 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jul 2010
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Would you REALLY (I mean...R E A L L Y!?!) spend 100,000 (that's One Hundred Thousand) to get a license you can get for 50,000?!?!?!?
The very good int. school I went to didn't charge me 100k , so not quite sure if that is a fair comment!
pitot_noob is offline  
Old 27th Jul 2010, 14:29
  #128 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
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Bobbydazzler (love the name btw), be careful about "helpful advise" on here.

Integrated courses do not cost 50k more than modular. They are more expensive, but once everything is added up, most modular students I met admitted to spending nearly as much as me (I did integrated). The premium (again, only according to the mods I met) around 5 years ago was 5 or 6k. Significant, but not as bad as some would have you beleive.

No integrated course will bar you for having a PPL. 119.35's comments suggesting you might probably go back to the days when aairline cadet schemes precluded people with over 65 hours from applying. But nowadays you are self sponsored so this doesn't apply. And you certainly used to be able to get a discount off course fees for already having a PPL. Guys on my course who had PPLs got 20 hours off the minimum flight hours, which certainly adds up.
Artie Fufkin is offline  
Old 27th Jul 2010, 15:25
  #129 (permalink)  
 
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Integrated courses dont usually have a 100k price tag, that's true, however should you need to get a loan for - say 60-70k (almost impossible nowadays anyway) - you'll easily pass 100k until you've paid it back. Compared to working and paying as you go alongside your job, yes, that's twice the price more or less¨.

Again, I'm not trying to argue about which is better, I am sincerely happy for anyone who found integrated is the right way, and hope anyone finds a job asap, no matter whether modular or integrated.

In the end we're all doing it for the same goal, and most make it, just via different routes. Go find out which is the best for you, but don't just get hypnotized by a shiny brochure saying you'll get a job at the end of the course. Because you just won't.
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Old 27th Jul 2010, 16:53
  #130 (permalink)  
 
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Modular can be done, in the UK, at good schools for £48,000 and in 12 months if you are in a hurry for some bizzare and misguided reason.

Not many Integrated courses that can be done for under £62k.


You probably live within an hours distance of a perfectly good flying school who can do you a CPL/IR. Home study and brush up course for the ATPL's only requires about 4 weeks away from home if you don't happen to live within commute of a Groundschool.


Its a NO BRAINER at the moment to go Modular. Has been for 3 years.

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Old 27th Jul 2010, 19:04
  #131 (permalink)  
 
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Completely agree modular represents the best way forward for most people at the moment. If I was training now, its what I'd be doing. It just frustrates me when disinformation is spread about what amounted to a huge decision for all of us.

In terms of factoring cost, it is always best to focus on what is likely, rather than on what is possible.

Does the 12 month, 48k modular course include PPL & hour building? The 14 month integrated course was pretty "action packed" and involved 80 less flight hours than modular.

Last edited by Artie Fufkin; 27th Jul 2010 at 19:15.
Artie Fufkin is offline  
Old 27th Jul 2010, 19:52
  #132 (permalink)  
 
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I have met someone that has gone modular, got a TR, and done the evil eagle jet in the orient to get 1000hrs 737 all in 90k, probably the price of an integrated school course.

It looks like PTF is here for the time being, so consider that on top of the 80 odd k that you will have to fork out to integrated school you are likely to have to buy a TR, maybe hours etc, buget for that as well.

Go modular, it is such a no brainer, and more fun!

PS - in no way do I advocate the PTF, Eagle jet et al.
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Old 27th Jul 2010, 21:17
  #133 (permalink)  
 
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I really genuinely don't want to appear confrontational on this one, but these post lie at the crux of the modular myth; "I know someone who says"... ie allegedly, and totally unquantifiable. When you sit down and take these people to task, the story usually changes. I remember being on the flight deck once where a captain was openly laughing at how much extra I had paid than him. We were on a night flight back from Spain, so had the time to examine it in detail. We worked out I was financially better off than him, even with me integrated and him modular and nearly 10 years before me!

And the "if you go integrated, factor in loan interest" argument- what about considering the salary differential between an FO position versus the "flippin' burgers" job that most hold down during modular traning. How much do FIs or dispatchers earn? Absolutley no direpect to either, I know great guys in both roles, but relative to a FO they earn peanuts. Maybe to the tune of 18K net per year (1.5k per month). Over 3 or 4 years that really adds up.
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Old 27th Jul 2010, 21:31
  #134 (permalink)  
 
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Sorry artie, have to disagree on that point. The best part about modular is that you can have a back up career, something to fall back on when a class one is lost, when the next down turn comes etc. I don't flip burgers and earn about 50k a year, yes I work hard, but whilst I am training i actually earn more than I will for my first fo job, something I find quite hard to justify at times!!
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Old 27th Jul 2010, 21:52
  #135 (permalink)  
 
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UAV689 - its a fair point. Its clearly working well for you, and good luck to you.

I only intend to add a degree of balance to the mod vs int argument. There are people reading this thread who will be planning their training and shouldn't have statements like "integrated is 50K more" left unchallenged.
Artie Fufkin is offline  
Old 8th Aug 2010, 12:57
  #136 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: Northumbria
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Artie, you don't need to make that argument because the integrated flight schools already lay on the marketing twaddle thick enough. This thread is to help those who might otherwise fall for it.

Also, if your argument is based on the claim that integrated students get jobs as FOs but modular guys have to wait years flipping burgers, then your contribution is no better than the schools marketing nonsense because that is not even close to the truth.

If you give up work completely and do a modular course full time at a reputable flight school you will in all likelihood probably save about £30 - 40K (or more if you account for interest over the period of any loans). You will of course miss out on any help that you might have received as an integrated student in finding a job but for the last 2 years that help has been mostly worthless anyway. Even before at the best of times that help only benefited a few - for the majority it is simply not worth the extra cost.
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Old 8th Aug 2010, 20:55
  #137 (permalink)  
 
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Pelikanpete, you can read whatever misinterpretations of my posts you like, but I all I was doing was challenging the utter rubbish that integrated courses cost 50K more than modular, because they don't.
Artie Fufkin is offline  
Old 15th Aug 2010, 07:57
  #138 (permalink)  
 
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Maybe not all of them, but certainly a lot!
If you take an example for the Netherlands: A mate of mine has debts of 120k € for his flight training in the KLS. Don't tell me you can't do modular flight training with a typerating for 70-80k €
Poeli is offline  
Old 15th Aug 2010, 09:37
  #139 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Aug 2010
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modular or integrated, there are no job...so go for the cheapest.
something is wrong in his head, when a guy go for integrated , pay a fortune plus airbus time, and finishes with no money!and no house on his head and parents have to go back to work.
that's totally insane!
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Old 16th Aug 2010, 17:50
  #140 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: Malaysia
Age: 30
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Please help

if there is a captain out there please help me.... i really need to ask u something
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