Keep at it Guys. This job is Fantastic
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THIS MEANS IN A FEW YEARS THERE WILL BE A BIG PILOT SHORTAGE AGAIN.
There has NEVER been a pilot SHORTAGE and never will be.
There may be a 'DEMAND' for pilots in the next upwards cycle; but words like BIG and SHORTAGE are a serious over exageration.
Risky Advice - as someone else commented
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Inspirational
So near yet so far but that puts it all in perspectve... Shame about those recently added pictures, anyone would think that you were posing
! You look like someone famous in them ...it might have been George Michael?? Plog you on Monday, Skip.
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i completely agree with you handflown
when i first started out doing my training there were guys on my course that were all over 5'11". nowadays the cadets coming through at my airline are mostly under 5'9"
the big pilot shortage is upon us
when i first started out doing my training there were guys on my course that were all over 5'11". nowadays the cadets coming through at my airline are mostly under 5'9"
the big pilot shortage is upon us
Last edited by BongleBear; 1st Jul 2009 at 23:50.
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Bonglebear,
It's those damn accountants every time you see. Pilots at the start of their career are cheaper because, as you have pointed out, the pilot shortage makes them smaller, fitter and thinner. Thus cost less fuel to cart around and monitor the auto pilot.
As the pilot gains more experience, eats more crew food, drinks considerably more coffee (unless you fly for easy!) then you become more expensive to the company payroll as you get fatter, thus heavier, thus burning more fuel.
It's all in the demographics.
It's those damn accountants every time you see. Pilots at the start of their career are cheaper because, as you have pointed out, the pilot shortage makes them smaller, fitter and thinner. Thus cost less fuel to cart around and monitor the auto pilot.
As the pilot gains more experience, eats more crew food, drinks considerably more coffee (unless you fly for easy!) then you become more expensive to the company payroll as you get fatter, thus heavier, thus burning more fuel.
It's all in the demographics.
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Just watch a pilot lose his medical, his world comes crashing down.
There are enough professions out there where people cheat their way to getting declared unfit to work. my 2 cents
There are enough professions out there where people cheat their way to getting declared unfit to work. my 2 cents
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yes,there is a pilot shortage of pilots willing to pay for t/r, line training, then working for free for years.
there is a pilot shortage of dady'son ready to spend a fortune in one of these integrated schools, thinking they will join BA.
there is a pilot shortage of captain, willing to work for peanuts in some crazy countries.
PLEASE STOP THE B....T, there is no pilot pilot shortage now, and certainly not in the future as well.
there is a pilot shortage of dady'son ready to spend a fortune in one of these integrated schools, thinking they will join BA.
there is a pilot shortage of captain, willing to work for peanuts in some crazy countries.
PLEASE STOP THE B....T, there is no pilot pilot shortage now, and certainly not in the future as well.
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I started flying, professionally, in 1986. At that time I was told that there was an upcoming shortage of pilots and the future would be all rosy and we would all have £150,000 plus jobs ad infinitum.
Oddly enough, it is now 2009 and I still haven't seen the panacea pilot shortage that will lead me to the hallowed land of low flying hours, massive pay and retirement at 55 with a yacht.
Aircraft are being laid up in the deserts of Nevada at an unprecedented rate. Not just the venerable old DC10's, 11's, MD 80's, L1011's etc. But modern aircraft, 737-800's, Airbuses etc. Boeing and Airbus have announced cuts to their production lines as airlines defer orders with no deferment date. There are not enough passengers travelling to fill the seats on the aircraft currently flying. Experienced, type rated and current airline pilots cannot find jobs. And still, the FTO's and inexperienced first job pilots crow about 'keep at it lads, stiff upper lip'.
When airlines start recruiting, as they surely will, they will start with the qualified pilots first who are a low training risk, quick startups to the line and easy to integrate. Once the pool of those pilots has been scavenged then, and only then, will they start looking at the training risk that is an ab-initio pilot.
Here is a friendly piece of advice. If you really, really, really want to train now then do so, go off some where exotic, get a job in a bar and kick about a bit flying some piece of junk between islands. Then, when the above scenario has played out come back and apply for an airline job. At least you will have a bit of cockpit banter that differs from the Oxford/Cabair 'let me tell you when I flew a Seneca'.
Otherwise. I, personally, would wait to see how the aviation industry pans out over the next year or two before committing yourself to alot of debt in an era where the country has committed itself and you to more debt than most of us can already handle.
Have a good long think.
JohnnyDB
Forgive me but I just don't get your banter????
Oddly enough, it is now 2009 and I still haven't seen the panacea pilot shortage that will lead me to the hallowed land of low flying hours, massive pay and retirement at 55 with a yacht.
Aircraft are being laid up in the deserts of Nevada at an unprecedented rate. Not just the venerable old DC10's, 11's, MD 80's, L1011's etc. But modern aircraft, 737-800's, Airbuses etc. Boeing and Airbus have announced cuts to their production lines as airlines defer orders with no deferment date. There are not enough passengers travelling to fill the seats on the aircraft currently flying. Experienced, type rated and current airline pilots cannot find jobs. And still, the FTO's and inexperienced first job pilots crow about 'keep at it lads, stiff upper lip'.
When airlines start recruiting, as they surely will, they will start with the qualified pilots first who are a low training risk, quick startups to the line and easy to integrate. Once the pool of those pilots has been scavenged then, and only then, will they start looking at the training risk that is an ab-initio pilot.
Here is a friendly piece of advice. If you really, really, really want to train now then do so, go off some where exotic, get a job in a bar and kick about a bit flying some piece of junk between islands. Then, when the above scenario has played out come back and apply for an airline job. At least you will have a bit of cockpit banter that differs from the Oxford/Cabair 'let me tell you when I flew a Seneca'.
Otherwise. I, personally, would wait to see how the aviation industry pans out over the next year or two before committing yourself to alot of debt in an era where the country has committed itself and you to more debt than most of us can already handle.
Have a good long think.
JohnnyDB
Just watch a pilot lose his medical, his world comes crashing down.
There are enough professions out there where people cheat their way to getting declared unfit to work. my 2 cents
There are enough professions out there where people cheat their way to getting declared unfit to work. my 2 cents
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Just watch a pilot lose his medical, his world comes crashing down.
There are enough professions out there where people cheat their way to getting declared unfit to work. my 2 cents
There are enough professions out there where people cheat their way to getting declared unfit to work. my 2 cents
if it is the latter then you will lose your medical and your world will come crashing down.
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People can say what they like about not being any jobs and poor prospects for the future etc etc but the bottom line is people will still beg steal or borrow the money to get there training done the ATPLs finished to get there fATPL.
Basically, people will not listen to someone telling them that their dream is a waste of time and money because they will still go ahead with the training anyway! Probably what ill be doing!
Basically, people will not listen to someone telling them that their dream is a waste of time and money because they will still go ahead with the training anyway! Probably what ill be doing!
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Without trying to do the mods' job for them, I've been around long enough (as both a wannabe and a commercial pilot) to know what this forum is about. Firstly it gives wannabes somewhere to get free and (hopefully) impartial advice - let's not forget just how daunting and confusing this game can be for the average zero-hours wannabe. I met quite a few of them at a certain show last Saturday, and by God do some of them need some advice . . . 
Secondly - and from personal experience, almost as important - it gives wannabes a chance to read the occasional inspiring post from someone who started off in their shoes and is now driving something fast and shiny, while sipping coffee at flight-level whatever.
Getting to the airlines is a long and bloody hard slog, whoever you are and whichever route you take. I had several moments when I came close to jacking it in and staying put in my safe, boring, 9-5 office job. When I was wavering, it was the inspirational 'day in the life' type stories (particularly Pilot Pete's, but there were others) which kept me going.
Thank God I did, because job-wise I'm happier now than I have ever been in my entire life. That's despite having just endured an LPC in the middle of the night (again) and having been up for work at 04:30 so often recently that my body thinks I should wake up at 05:00 on my days off. Despite doing four or six sector days where I barely have time to go to the loo, never mind eat anything, and despite some part of my anatomy setting off the sodding metal detector every time I go to work. It's worth it because I love flying, and I work with professionals who also love flying. I'll say it again - it's more of a way of life than a job.
That's a message that I think is worth telling, and that's why I think this type of thread is so important.
Secondly - and from personal experience, almost as important - it gives wannabes a chance to read the occasional inspiring post from someone who started off in their shoes and is now driving something fast and shiny, while sipping coffee at flight-level whatever.
Getting to the airlines is a long and bloody hard slog, whoever you are and whichever route you take. I had several moments when I came close to jacking it in and staying put in my safe, boring, 9-5 office job. When I was wavering, it was the inspirational 'day in the life' type stories (particularly Pilot Pete's, but there were others) which kept me going.
Thank God I did, because job-wise I'm happier now than I have ever been in my entire life. That's despite having just endured an LPC in the middle of the night (again) and having been up for work at 04:30 so often recently that my body thinks I should wake up at 05:00 on my days off. Despite doing four or six sector days where I barely have time to go to the loo, never mind eat anything, and despite some part of my anatomy setting off the sodding metal detector every time I go to work. It's worth it because I love flying, and I work with professionals who also love flying. I'll say it again - it's more of a way of life than a job.
That's a message that I think is worth telling, and that's why I think this type of thread is so important.
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When I was doing Cargo on the 742F, I could have written an inspirational post every day. Coming up to 3 years on the 744 and I'm now looking to get back into Cargo and would take a 20K decrease in pay to do so.
Point I'm making is that the first bit of luck is getting an interview. Second bit of luck is getting the job. But I tell you, after one year, the most important bit of luck is whether you enjoy the job - not the flying (the novelty lasts a few years) but the whole T&C element.
You may think that any flying job is great but if you are not enjoying the airline/company, you will have the same feeling as when you did when you sat opposite a PC wishing for a better life.
When I was in cargo, the schedules were horrendous due to time zones of weird and wonderful places we flew to, pay on the 742F was pale in comparison to our airline colleagues and we slept in B&Bs (providing the paperwork actually got through to the country in question!)
But I loved every single minute of it! Because my employer's T&C were excellent and you actually felt like 'one of the family' rather than a costly overhead. And this cascaded down to the down-to-earth pilots I flew with.
I honestly hope that all of you guys who are about to/have paid 30K for the likes of FYR enjoy the job and eventually get the T&Cs you deserve.
Because if not, those glorious pictures soon get boring.
Point I'm making is that the first bit of luck is getting an interview. Second bit of luck is getting the job. But I tell you, after one year, the most important bit of luck is whether you enjoy the job - not the flying (the novelty lasts a few years) but the whole T&C element.
You may think that any flying job is great but if you are not enjoying the airline/company, you will have the same feeling as when you did when you sat opposite a PC wishing for a better life.
When I was in cargo, the schedules were horrendous due to time zones of weird and wonderful places we flew to, pay on the 742F was pale in comparison to our airline colleagues and we slept in B&Bs (providing the paperwork actually got through to the country in question!)
But I loved every single minute of it! Because my employer's T&C were excellent and you actually felt like 'one of the family' rather than a costly overhead. And this cascaded down to the down-to-earth pilots I flew with.
I honestly hope that all of you guys who are about to/have paid 30K for the likes of FYR enjoy the job and eventually get the T&Cs you deserve.
Because if not, those glorious pictures soon get boring.
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Whilst positivity is important, I think in times like these it is more sensible to be 'Black and White' - post as many pictures, write as many 'day in the life posts' as you like, if this is your dream, put it off for 2 years minimum, it's simply not available to you, these threads are just teasing you - concentrate on another income.
I could write about the fantastic day i've just had in a B737-800NG, my awesome industry leading T&C's including the £60k plus i've earn't as an FO on my P60, but I think it would be fair to say that those of us who are flying for a living know we are just very lucky to be employed right now...it could end in November this year...
Have you read the thread on Netjets Europe parking aircraft at St Mawgan? How long before redundancies are on a table in Lisbon? My company (3rd largest UK airline) is already looking at it's surplus pilots for Summer 2010 - more capacity cuts? I would of thought so...the 'quiet cull' is still ongoing guys...
I could write about the fantastic day i've just had in a B737-800NG, my awesome industry leading T&C's including the £60k plus i've earn't as an FO on my P60, but I think it would be fair to say that those of us who are flying for a living know we are just very lucky to be employed right now...it could end in November this year...
Have you read the thread on Netjets Europe parking aircraft at St Mawgan? How long before redundancies are on a table in Lisbon? My company (3rd largest UK airline) is already looking at it's surplus pilots for Summer 2010 - more capacity cuts? I would of thought so...the 'quiet cull' is still ongoing guys...
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G SXTY > and despite some part of my anatomy setting off the sodding metal detector every time I go to work
of steel, right? 
Agreeing with most of realistic posters, I'd say that 'where/when there's a will (+years of hard work, frustration from delays, gaps in flying, mind-numbing theory - unless damn lucky, ie rich, fed with silver spoon etc), there's a way'. No matter how long it takes to get there. It also takes planning, research, putting up with crap, cartload of luck. Right now for folks dreaming about big stuff cockpits and having the urge to start ASAFP towards CPL/MEIR, ehm. It's their life..
The only art is to balance life so that one doesn't start to hate their failures, setbacks, non-existent private life working like mad during 'best years'.
To all of you who got 0 TT or trial flight under belt:
Do not underestimate the burden of a loan (that is, if lucky to score one now), hassle of getting airline job (or any non-instructing PAID job), other things mentioned above.
I do rant tad too much in my posts sometimes, feeling self-pity etc. It won't make me give up, but it's hard to treasure the joyfull moments from (the start) of my flight training - helis so far, without crashing down to the the reality of messed up finances/funding plans thanks to couple factors. None of that relied heavily on loans, btw.
So, do try to do your PPL (A) in one go and have some spare cash for keeping in shape renting when embarking on modular route. Keep it in perspective.
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When I started flying many yonks ago, I was totally focused on getting that PPL. It seems very strange to me now that I never really considered where I was going once I had it. I guess I just kidded myself that once I had a licence to fly everything would fall into place.
Of course it didn't. But at that stage I owed nothing.
I would asume that newbees today are seeing the same tunnel vision. Go and get that loan, work to your fATPL, project yourself into that position now. You have it in your hand along with enough debt to guarantee never being able to afford a home! Now what are you going to do with it?
It makes a good drinks coaster! Frame it. Pat yourself on the back for achieving a very difficult ambition but what are you going to use it for?
See the world for what it is today.
You stand as much chance of walking into that jet job as seeing a return to 125% mortgages on properties worth 1/2 of that.
The world has changed.
This situation is not going to blow over. It will take a great deal of time to work through before we see anything like the last few years.
Aviation has shrunk considerably in a very short period of time. That has put thousands of guys out of work. At what point will any employer look at a new licence holder? Personally, I see no point for the forseeable future at all.
Really. Face facts. You may as well train to be a steam engine driver!
Of course it didn't. But at that stage I owed nothing.
I would asume that newbees today are seeing the same tunnel vision. Go and get that loan, work to your fATPL, project yourself into that position now. You have it in your hand along with enough debt to guarantee never being able to afford a home! Now what are you going to do with it?
It makes a good drinks coaster! Frame it. Pat yourself on the back for achieving a very difficult ambition but what are you going to use it for?
See the world for what it is today.
You stand as much chance of walking into that jet job as seeing a return to 125% mortgages on properties worth 1/2 of that.
The world has changed.
This situation is not going to blow over. It will take a great deal of time to work through before we see anything like the last few years.
Aviation has shrunk considerably in a very short period of time. That has put thousands of guys out of work. At what point will any employer look at a new licence holder? Personally, I see no point for the forseeable future at all.
Really. Face facts. You may as well train to be a steam engine driver!
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Come on Jelly,
With Harriet Harman's Equality Bill you should at least feel safe.
Sorry lads, your days are numbered when the recruitment drive starts up. If I were you forget about £30K for a TR - get yourself down to the gender-re-assignment clinic pronto.
Practice walking in heels
With Harriet Harman's Equality Bill you should at least feel safe.
Sorry lads, your days are numbered when the recruitment drive starts up. If I were you forget about £30K for a TR - get yourself down to the gender-re-assignment clinic pronto.
Practice walking in heels
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Never was a pilot shortage? from what I know a few years back there was a pilot shortage in China and India.
IMO If the undustry does pick up and you are willing to re locate around the globe, the odds would be more in your favour of winning employment with airline as a pilot.
IMO If the undustry does pick up and you are willing to re locate around the globe, the odds would be more in your favour of winning employment with airline as a pilot.