How Long it takes the Modular way???
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Rugbyears....hear hear. Really, absolutely spot on. The crux of it being "Vigorously research appropriate literature " (but ALL of it)
BSMuppet. I empathise...my missus is 8.5 months pregnant....I have to explain everything. Including quite what it was I was thinking getting her in this state!
You haven't insulted me (as yet) - I was merely saying you can do so as much as you like and it matters not to me.
The relevance of the point, came from your assertion that integrated would cost 400% more than modular. Which is pure, unadulterated balls. Which is where you gave me the hump.
The relevance of cost differential is that you are holding up being able to maintain an existing salary whilst training. However to everything there is a second side, the second side is that longer term, you lose overall salary.
To the OP - You've got some good answers here and some tripe from me and BSMuppet, for which I apologise.
FWIW, I would think Modular route full time budget around the £50k mark and 18 months should see you through (you may finish sooner), part time, same cost but 4/5 years. BUT - note Rugbyears comments and research thoroughly and understand all your costs....
BSMuppet. I empathise...my missus is 8.5 months pregnant....I have to explain everything. Including quite what it was I was thinking getting her in this state!
You haven't insulted me (as yet) - I was merely saying you can do so as much as you like and it matters not to me.
The relevance of the point, came from your assertion that integrated would cost 400% more than modular. Which is pure, unadulterated balls. Which is where you gave me the hump.
The relevance of cost differential is that you are holding up being able to maintain an existing salary whilst training. However to everything there is a second side, the second side is that longer term, you lose overall salary.
To the OP - You've got some good answers here and some tripe from me and BSMuppet, for which I apologise.
FWIW, I would think Modular route full time budget around the £50k mark and 18 months should see you through (you may finish sooner), part time, same cost but 4/5 years. BUT - note Rugbyears comments and research thoroughly and understand all your costs....
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[QUOTE]Fact is I already have my nice and cheap blue wallet, I have no debt and enough money in the bank to pay a TR if I need to./QUOTE]
Well bully for you clanger32.
How well has your situation served you up to know?
From what I have read on other threads, your type rating money has got you nowhere so far. It takes a lot more than money old chap.
Well bully for you clanger32.
How well has your situation served you up to know?
From what I have read on other threads, your type rating money has got you nowhere so far. It takes a lot more than money old chap.
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Shaun,
Normally I don't bother to reply to your posts, as invariably they're mean spirited, unhelpful and serve no purpose whatsoever other than to show why cousins shouldn't marry. So what a pleasant change for you to write something mean spirited and unhelpful.
However, I will rise on this occassion.
How has it served me to date? It hasn't. I managed to right royally cock up the one interview I've managed to get so far. However, this is not ameasure of my training route - it's a measure of being way out of practice (I hadn't flown for three months); it's a measure of being called for interview with 5 days notice - so, given a full time job, no hope of squeezing a sim refresher in; it's a measure of nerves getting the better of me when it started to go wrong on the day.
I seriously doubt any sane person would take this as ANY reflection on the training I took, as opposed to bad luck/bad judgement on the day. Perhaps the only reflection from my training you could/should take from this, is the fact I got an interview at all.
Yet you seek to pin this on what training route I - or anyone else - took, despite the fact that none of the modular guys on my assessment got in either. The fact I screwed up my Ryanair sim check is nothing whatsoever to do with the way I trained, what happened to me could happen to anyone on a given day. So my method of training, or my bank balance is a totally redundant point - but then, you'd be totally unable to understand that, given that you see modular as the ONLY successful route...
I will say though, that you're right on one thing....getting a job is nothing to do with having the money for a TR or not and does require more than just cash.
It's requires a bloody great slice of "luck pie" and being in the right place at the right time. Regardless of what training route you took.
However, a LOT - if not all- of the few opportunities that do exist out there do require a TR to paid for, so it's nice to know I can do that (should I get the opportunity) without taking debt. I'm sure again that the sensible person would agree this is great place to be in the current market. But not you, you'd prefer to see it as a failing of the integrated scheme, that even though I can afford a TR, I haven't got a job yet.
Finally then, a question for you - what the hell do you think it says about you, that you revel in the fact someone - anyone - has spent £30 -£40 - £50k or whatever and hasn't got a job? Are you really as deeply unpleasant and polarised of view as you go out of your way to portray on here, or do you get some petty teenager-like kick out of being unkind?
But thanks for your concern - I'll be fine, thanks, as I'm continuing my training, trying to hone my skills and develop as a pilot more etc. Failing at Ryanair was the kick in the ass I needed to get back in the sim and get back up to scratch, which is what I'm doing. So I'm just waiting the storm out in my old job.....same as anyone else who hasn't managed to get a job, regardless of their training method...
Normally I don't bother to reply to your posts, as invariably they're mean spirited, unhelpful and serve no purpose whatsoever other than to show why cousins shouldn't marry. So what a pleasant change for you to write something mean spirited and unhelpful.
However, I will rise on this occassion.
How has it served me to date? It hasn't. I managed to right royally cock up the one interview I've managed to get so far. However, this is not ameasure of my training route - it's a measure of being way out of practice (I hadn't flown for three months); it's a measure of being called for interview with 5 days notice - so, given a full time job, no hope of squeezing a sim refresher in; it's a measure of nerves getting the better of me when it started to go wrong on the day.
I seriously doubt any sane person would take this as ANY reflection on the training I took, as opposed to bad luck/bad judgement on the day. Perhaps the only reflection from my training you could/should take from this, is the fact I got an interview at all.
Yet you seek to pin this on what training route I - or anyone else - took, despite the fact that none of the modular guys on my assessment got in either. The fact I screwed up my Ryanair sim check is nothing whatsoever to do with the way I trained, what happened to me could happen to anyone on a given day. So my method of training, or my bank balance is a totally redundant point - but then, you'd be totally unable to understand that, given that you see modular as the ONLY successful route...
I will say though, that you're right on one thing....getting a job is nothing to do with having the money for a TR or not and does require more than just cash.
It's requires a bloody great slice of "luck pie" and being in the right place at the right time. Regardless of what training route you took.
However, a LOT - if not all- of the few opportunities that do exist out there do require a TR to paid for, so it's nice to know I can do that (should I get the opportunity) without taking debt. I'm sure again that the sensible person would agree this is great place to be in the current market. But not you, you'd prefer to see it as a failing of the integrated scheme, that even though I can afford a TR, I haven't got a job yet.
Finally then, a question for you - what the hell do you think it says about you, that you revel in the fact someone - anyone - has spent £30 -£40 - £50k or whatever and hasn't got a job? Are you really as deeply unpleasant and polarised of view as you go out of your way to portray on here, or do you get some petty teenager-like kick out of being unkind?
But thanks for your concern - I'll be fine, thanks, as I'm continuing my training, trying to hone my skills and develop as a pilot more etc. Failing at Ryanair was the kick in the ass I needed to get back in the sim and get back up to scratch, which is what I'm doing. So I'm just waiting the storm out in my old job.....same as anyone else who hasn't managed to get a job, regardless of their training method...
Last edited by clanger32; 10th Apr 2009 at 10:14.
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Clanger I have to say you make some extremely valid points in your posts. I can't understand why BSmuppet is arguing the point so vigorously. The reason the like of OAA and all the rest don't put the end of career earnings point on their glossy brochure is because they also offer modular routes so they would be shooting themselves in the foot. Plus you don't try to sway opinion to either route whereas BSmuppet you are really pushing the modular route with your deliberately misleading figures 
Anyway, to the original poster, if you have the money, or part thereof along with a loan, to go down the integrated route and are intent, for God knows what reason due to current job market/economic climate, to qualify asap, then do that. If you don't have the money or are not in a huge rush then do the modular route. Better yet, take rugbyears advice and bury yourself in all the information you can get, contact the airlines, talk to current serving pilots and once you have enough information then make an educated decision based on that. Otherwise, as has been proven in this and so many other posts on here, things decend into petty squables between those that advocate modular and those that advocate integrated, leaving you no better off than when you started.
Anyway, to the original poster, if you have the money, or part thereof along with a loan, to go down the integrated route and are intent, for God knows what reason due to current job market/economic climate, to qualify asap, then do that. If you don't have the money or are not in a huge rush then do the modular route. Better yet, take rugbyears advice and bury yourself in all the information you can get, contact the airlines, talk to current serving pilots and once you have enough information then make an educated decision based on that. Otherwise, as has been proven in this and so many other posts on here, things decend into petty squables between those that advocate modular and those that advocate integrated, leaving you no better off than when you started.
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Sorry, is it "Lets wind up BSmuppet day or something".
Wiliit I'll deal with you in a second.
First of all clanger I agree with your reply to Shaun. I've seen his past posts and he definately speaks with a "Pull the ladder up Jack and sod the rest" tone. Your time will come clanger, hang in there.
Wiliit don't stick your nose in son. Me arguing my point so vigorously? I think you will find that my new mate Clanger expended more effort in his posts than I did. Also you really have missed the point regarding end of year earnings. I only brought that up because Clanger had mentioned about "lost years/seniority" as a back up to his argument and my point was it doesn't matter becasue there are too many IFs and BUTs to bring that into the equation.
Please see my OAA/BA vs CTC/easyJet analogy.
Wiliit I'll deal with you in a second.
First of all clanger I agree with your reply to Shaun. I've seen his past posts and he definately speaks with a "Pull the ladder up Jack and sod the rest" tone. Your time will come clanger, hang in there.
Wiliit don't stick your nose in son. Me arguing my point so vigorously? I think you will find that my new mate Clanger expended more effort in his posts than I did. Also you really have missed the point regarding end of year earnings. I only brought that up because Clanger had mentioned about "lost years/seniority" as a back up to his argument and my point was it doesn't matter becasue there are too many IFs and BUTs to bring that into the equation.
Please see my OAA/BA vs CTC/easyJet analogy.
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BSmuppet - you really are quite an arrogant, pugnacious, opinionated fool - Unlike you, I have adopted this medium to engage in logical useful debate. Although, I do not always agree with opposite views, I maintain the good grace to listen as well as question such arguments carefully.
I am saddened our industry retains ill-mannered chaps such as you. I certainly hope that I never have the miss fortune to sit alongside you.
Yes, for the record I adopted the ‘Modular’ programme, not as a result of what fools such as you protest, rather, as it facilitated individual circumstances based on my own research – NOT PPRuNers.
Kindly consider what may be appropriate for you, may not always be correct for the chap alongside you!
I am saddened our industry retains ill-mannered chaps such as you. I certainly hope that I never have the miss fortune to sit alongside you.
Yes, for the record I adopted the ‘Modular’ programme, not as a result of what fools such as you protest, rather, as it facilitated individual circumstances based on my own research – NOT PPRuNers.
Kindly consider what may be appropriate for you, may not always be correct for the chap alongside you!
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Rugbyears,
How long did it take you to come up with the most original PPrune insult?.."Oooh, I hope I never have to sit next to you on an 8 hour flight"....zzzzzzzzzzz.
F me. The feeling is mutual son.
How long did it take you to come up with the most original PPrune insult?.."Oooh, I hope I never have to sit next to you on an 8 hour flight"....zzzzzzzzzzz.
F me. The feeling is mutual son.
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Thanks!!!!!
Thanks guys ( only for those who read the start of the thread), where I asked SENSIBLE PEOPLE with SENSIBLE REPLIES!!!!!. The only reason I had to start a new thread was only this b****y reason where any meaningful answers and suggestions get dogmagged by CHILDISH BUL****T.I am surprised these kind of people are actually waiting to get inside the industry???? I am quite happy with this economic downturn if some of the guys on here can be kept away from cockpits as long as possible!!! I apologise for the ones who have worked so hard and cant get anywhere but some peoples IQ on here is questionable!!!! Very sorry to say that!!!!
. The only reason I had to start a new thread was only this b****y reason where any meaningful answers and suggestions get dogmagged by CHILDISH BUL****T.I am surprised these kind of people are actually waiting to get inside the industry???? I am quite happy with this economic downturn if some of the guys on here can be kept away from cockpits as long as possible!!! I apologise for the ones who have worked so hard and cant get anywhere but some peoples IQ on here is questionable!!!! Very sorry to say that!!!!
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Muppet, kindly acquire a degree of basic politeness - I am NOT your son old boy! It is not good form to simply throw stones within a glass house's! Try to refrian from insulting individuals as a consequence of a post!
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Mr B.S. Muppet,
I think it would be nice if you kindly refrained from being so in-your-face with these nice folk who kindly let us be guests on their bulletin board.
I understand that you may be passionate in your feelings that the world is against you but I think you may have spent a little too much time away from real folks out there at Henderson Field with the Wildlife Service guys and have forgotten that the folk who run this rather nice website are aviation professionals who sometimes don’t take too kindly from guests being quite so in-their faces.
I enjoy the ability to have access to this website and would hate for it to become an industry only place because they felt that folks such as you were a bit too much.
Jim
I think it would be nice if you kindly refrained from being so in-your-face with these nice folk who kindly let us be guests on their bulletin board.
I understand that you may be passionate in your feelings that the world is against you but I think you may have spent a little too much time away from real folks out there at Henderson Field with the Wildlife Service guys and have forgotten that the folk who run this rather nice website are aviation professionals who sometimes don’t take too kindly from guests being quite so in-their faces.
I enjoy the ability to have access to this website and would hate for it to become an industry only place because they felt that folks such as you were a bit too much.
Jim
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JH,
are you kidding me? Please tell me you didn't just make up a whole new name just so you could have a pop at me?
Rugbyears,
could you please copy and paste an insult that apparently I have dished out?
are you kidding me? Please tell me you didn't just make up a whole new name just so you could have a pop at me?
Rugbyears,
could you please copy and paste an insult that apparently I have dished out?
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Am I yet another one to hit a nerve with you clanger32? No need for the cousin thing, you are not suggesting that my parents may have been cousins eh?
I will try and offer a bit of constructive advice on this occasion. Try flying a bit. I remember back in my PPL days flying virtually every weekend, I could not get enough, I was hooked. Therefore I have no sympathy with you clanger32 for being out of practice. One might question why you bothered to invest so much in an APP course if you were not able to keep current afterwards? Surely you must have had an opportunity to fly in the past three months? Do you actually like flying, or is it only jets that will do? I suspect that you thought that you would just walk straight in to a job after training.
As for being called for interview with only 5 days notice, well lucky you! I would suggest being ready for such an eventuality, it does happen. Maybe you thought that you might get a few months notice for you to prepare. Or was it to much self confidence that let you down? Full time job or not, no excuses. Sim refresher training? Excuses, excuses.... There are many of us out there who held down full time jobs married with kids whilst looking for airline work. Dont let it get in the way.
I do understand how nerve racking it can get during an interview and sim ride. You must be mentally prepared for this. Try getting your other half to interrogate you with a pre prepared interview style question and answer sheet. This will help you practice composing yourself when presented with tricky interview questions. For the sim, well it sounds as though you are well paid enough to afford regular sim practice sessions. I suggest simply using MSFS to practice holding, NPAs and raw data ILS's. It will save you a lot of money! You could do 1 hour a night maybe?
As for me trying to pin it on your training route, well not really. You have been unlucky though. Maybe if you had started a year before things may have been different. I have to say though that you do have a lot of opinions on the subject of where and how to train. At least you got the interview as you say, I doubt however it was down to where you trained for your CPL as you suggested.
Getting a job today will take a lot more than "luck pie". For the minute amount of positions available here in the UK, it takes experience and being better than the rest amongst many other factors.
I will try and offer a bit of constructive advice on this occasion. Try flying a bit. I remember back in my PPL days flying virtually every weekend, I could not get enough, I was hooked. Therefore I have no sympathy with you clanger32 for being out of practice. One might question why you bothered to invest so much in an APP course if you were not able to keep current afterwards? Surely you must have had an opportunity to fly in the past three months? Do you actually like flying, or is it only jets that will do? I suspect that you thought that you would just walk straight in to a job after training.
As for being called for interview with only 5 days notice, well lucky you! I would suggest being ready for such an eventuality, it does happen. Maybe you thought that you might get a few months notice for you to prepare. Or was it to much self confidence that let you down? Full time job or not, no excuses. Sim refresher training? Excuses, excuses.... There are many of us out there who held down full time jobs married with kids whilst looking for airline work. Dont let it get in the way.
I do understand how nerve racking it can get during an interview and sim ride. You must be mentally prepared for this. Try getting your other half to interrogate you with a pre prepared interview style question and answer sheet. This will help you practice composing yourself when presented with tricky interview questions. For the sim, well it sounds as though you are well paid enough to afford regular sim practice sessions. I suggest simply using MSFS to practice holding, NPAs and raw data ILS's. It will save you a lot of money! You could do 1 hour a night maybe?
As for me trying to pin it on your training route, well not really. You have been unlucky though. Maybe if you had started a year before things may have been different. I have to say though that you do have a lot of opinions on the subject of where and how to train. At least you got the interview as you say, I doubt however it was down to where you trained for your CPL as you suggested.
Getting a job today will take a lot more than "luck pie". For the minute amount of positions available here in the UK, it takes experience and being better than the rest amongst many other factors.
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really rugbyears?
I would never have guessed that. Thanks for the contribution and for enlightening us.
Quite simply put, the method of programme adopted is principally dependent on ones own situation. Vigorously research appropriate literature and formulate an approach suitably equipped to facilitate your own progression - It really is rather simple! 
I apologise if that offended you, that was not my purpose…!
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Shaun, I wasnt going to reply again, as I feel this thread has already been hijacked enough. However a couple of points
- the reason I didn't fly for three months is simply that I'd run out of money. I am paid around six weeks in arrears and started back in my old job in December. Go figure the dates as to when I had income again. Also, I had to get the financial ship back on an even keel, giving the impending birth of my first child.
- I'm not seeking, even partially, sympathy. My mistakes in that sim check cost me only. You actually raise some good points. All I can say is I learned from it. However, I fail to understand quite why it matters at all to you as to why I, or anyone else, failed.
- Gotta love, just LOVE, the assertion implied in your last sentence, that you are a better pilot than anyone else, which is why you have a job and others don't. To quote the film 'White men can't jump' "some days the sun shines even on a dogs arse. Anyone can win the lottery". VERY foolish assumption that what happened in my simcheck is any reflection of me as a pilot, or could not happen to you. It will happen to you at some point. Remember this conversation on that day.
- you actually raise some good points re: use of MSFS. Can we have more of these posts and less of your usual tripe.
- yes, I still love flying. No, not "only a jet job will do", but I cant find many kingair operators who will pay me forty grand a year - and this is the crux of it. Even if you "ONLY" paid £40k for your licence, you still need a pay back on that investment and frankly, for me £11k a year just doesnt cut it! I have no doubt that you'll say you should do it for the love of the job, but to me, that's naieve in the extreme. Point me in the direction of a Kingair or Pilatus operator (or better still a Twotter on floats!) that pays a decent wedge and I'll bug the hell out of them from here on in...but I doubt you'll know of one...
- yes I have views on training, but I don't think I've ever said "go integrated" or otherwise, unlike you. I seek to provide a balance in my posts to the multitude of utter **** posted on here. Integrated has many drawbacks, but so does modular - just that people like you only ever paint the negative side of one route and the positive of another - THIS is what I seek to address. The fact is those that slate the integrated route clearly know toss all about it, yet talk as though it's undisputed fact. It isn't - and CLEARLY isn't at that.
There is a massive irony, you know, in that I only met one person through my course even half as arrogant and "know it all" as you seem to think all integrated students are. Yet there you are, claiming to be better than the rest of us, assuming you know anything about me....
The only person, Shaun, that actually fits your mental image of the integrated student, is you....
edited to correct stupid iphone autocorrections....
- the reason I didn't fly for three months is simply that I'd run out of money. I am paid around six weeks in arrears and started back in my old job in December. Go figure the dates as to when I had income again. Also, I had to get the financial ship back on an even keel, giving the impending birth of my first child.
- I'm not seeking, even partially, sympathy. My mistakes in that sim check cost me only. You actually raise some good points. All I can say is I learned from it. However, I fail to understand quite why it matters at all to you as to why I, or anyone else, failed.
- Gotta love, just LOVE, the assertion implied in your last sentence, that you are a better pilot than anyone else, which is why you have a job and others don't. To quote the film 'White men can't jump' "some days the sun shines even on a dogs arse. Anyone can win the lottery". VERY foolish assumption that what happened in my simcheck is any reflection of me as a pilot, or could not happen to you. It will happen to you at some point. Remember this conversation on that day.
- you actually raise some good points re: use of MSFS. Can we have more of these posts and less of your usual tripe.
- yes, I still love flying. No, not "only a jet job will do", but I cant find many kingair operators who will pay me forty grand a year - and this is the crux of it. Even if you "ONLY" paid £40k for your licence, you still need a pay back on that investment and frankly, for me £11k a year just doesnt cut it! I have no doubt that you'll say you should do it for the love of the job, but to me, that's naieve in the extreme. Point me in the direction of a Kingair or Pilatus operator (or better still a Twotter on floats!) that pays a decent wedge and I'll bug the hell out of them from here on in...but I doubt you'll know of one...
- yes I have views on training, but I don't think I've ever said "go integrated" or otherwise, unlike you. I seek to provide a balance in my posts to the multitude of utter **** posted on here. Integrated has many drawbacks, but so does modular - just that people like you only ever paint the negative side of one route and the positive of another - THIS is what I seek to address. The fact is those that slate the integrated route clearly know toss all about it, yet talk as though it's undisputed fact. It isn't - and CLEARLY isn't at that.
There is a massive irony, you know, in that I only met one person through my course even half as arrogant and "know it all" as you seem to think all integrated students are. Yet there you are, claiming to be better than the rest of us, assuming you know anything about me....
The only person, Shaun, that actually fits your mental image of the integrated student, is you....
edited to correct stupid iphone autocorrections....
Last edited by clanger32; 15th Apr 2009 at 08:28.
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RUGBYEARS
So we have gone from the accusation that I have dished out insults (plural) to individuals (more than one) yet your evidence is one quote which you have already alluded to being nothing more than a facetious comment.
Kindly receed your accusation that I made insults to individuals.
So we have gone from the accusation that I have dished out insults (plural) to individuals (more than one) yet your evidence is one quote which you have already alluded to being nothing more than a facetious comment.
Kindly receed your accusation that I made insults to individuals.
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BSmuppet - Your confrontational tone I’m afraid sadly indicates you possess little in the way of common decorum. I would suggest we refrain from posting further replies as we obviously retain conflicting perspectives, nor is it beneficial to this particular thread.
I return to my original post….MrFixer
I would endeavour to formally contact a variety of schools, closely examining what each programme offers, maybe visit – Once you have the appropriate information, I would urge you to carefully analyse the implications of each route. Ensure that you factor in particulars such as general living costs, duration of time required to complete the programme, standard/quality of tuition. Also carefully consider what it is you wish to achieve, for example, Airlines, are you striving to attain a position as an airline pilot, or alternatively, do you simply want a career as a pilot similar to a flying instructor? I suggest you try and acquire relevant statistics - who has a proven track record and facilitated students transition to end employment – PROOF not say so! What about location, will you require relocating during your training phase, how will this affect you study if you have a partner and so on. Is there a requirement to maintain pat-time employment to facilitate your training? These questions are very individualistic, and therefore should only be assessed by you. Once you have calculated these agents you will know doubt have further specific questions which you wish to ask, I would then use this platform to question particular queries, as you are able to observe, the Modular v Integrated debate is rather open ended, personal circumstances heavily influence your choice. I personally opted for the Modular route as it best facilitates my circumstances, but may not yours – either way best of luck, I’m sure you will decide diligently.
I return to my original post….MrFixer
I would endeavour to formally contact a variety of schools, closely examining what each programme offers, maybe visit – Once you have the appropriate information, I would urge you to carefully analyse the implications of each route. Ensure that you factor in particulars such as general living costs, duration of time required to complete the programme, standard/quality of tuition. Also carefully consider what it is you wish to achieve, for example, Airlines, are you striving to attain a position as an airline pilot, or alternatively, do you simply want a career as a pilot similar to a flying instructor? I suggest you try and acquire relevant statistics - who has a proven track record and facilitated students transition to end employment – PROOF not say so! What about location, will you require relocating during your training phase, how will this affect you study if you have a partner and so on. Is there a requirement to maintain pat-time employment to facilitate your training? These questions are very individualistic, and therefore should only be assessed by you. Once you have calculated these agents you will know doubt have further specific questions which you wish to ask, I would then use this platform to question particular queries, as you are able to observe, the Modular v Integrated debate is rather open ended, personal circumstances heavily influence your choice. I personally opted for the Modular route as it best facilitates my circumstances, but may not yours – either way best of luck, I’m sure you will decide diligently.