Modular Students Employment Success

[Afraz]

Yes AW I think your right. But lets say I go modular and finish my training in 3 years time (apparantly the job market will pick up by then) and apply for a job with an airline. Will the airline have a slight prefrence for the integrated students who have come out of the the big 4? Or will I have a equal chance of getting the job? Does having one of the big 4 on your CV impact your chances of employment success?

Once again, thanks!

[Nashers]

i shall bite as well....

i did my MCC ant oxford a couple of months ago and we had someone from BA (pretty high up in the company) come up and give a speach to all the ofx students. me an my sim buddy went for it as well just to hear what he had to say.

to cut short what he said:
BA are not recruiting pilots from ofx at the mo, have stopped all interviews from them and dont know when they will restart.

BAs shareprices have gone down and shareholders are pissed off. they are trying to make shareholders happy.

BAs overheads are high and they are looking for ways to reduce them because they know they are beign killed out there.

ofcourse he said all the things to promote BA but if one reads between the lines the above is what your take from it. it will be quite a while as it seems they are restructuring the company and it will take aprox 2 years before they start taking students on again.

Now when you go to a place like oxf, they push the fact that BA take on their students. if you look on their website- more students go to ryanair than anywhere else. i know quite a few people who have gone modular and got jobs with ryanair... with BA putting a freeze one recruiting students, what are you going to get for that 30K extra?

[Flying Squid]

Well said Nashers! The eternal Int vs Mod debate lives on. When I organised my training in mid-2007 I was torn for months over which way to go until I spoke to a friend who fly's for RYR and mentioned the number of Oxford Int students being taken on at the same time as him...all of which had spent at least £30k more for their training to get the same job...and that was 4 years ago when the job's market was booming! That was a big nail in the Int coffin for me...the final straw came when I tried to quantify what I actually got for the extra dosh. I could only think of 2 things.....

1) Being able to say "I trained Integrated" and hence a very small chance of getting a job marginally faster.

2) Someone holding my hand and organising my training for me.....call me a synical bastard but I could employ a part time PA for a year for less than £10k to do that for me if it became such an issue (which I could never see it being in the first place)

In case you handn't guessed I'm a big fan of Modular but then I'm training Modular so am bound to be. If money was absolutely no object then I may say f**k it and just chuck the money at OAA for an integrated course but for 99% of people (very much including me ) money is a very big issue so Mod Mod Mod!!!!

Good Luck whatever you go with.

FS

[Afraz]

yeah, most people who have just finished thier training will probably end up in Ryanair and there are many ways to get into Ryanair (70% of SFC students get employed by Ryanair apparantly), by the looks of things I think they dont care how you got your licence - its the ability that counts!!

After you stop being a self sponsered pilot and become a direct entry pilot I dont think any airline cares where or how you got your licence, now its the amount of hours, type ratings etc you have that the airlines care about.

Am I right about all of this???

Thanks for your help!!!

[MIKECR]

Did my fATPL modular for 30k. Applied to Ryanair and within 2 days of application was offered the same interview as everyone else. Decided in the end to decline the offer....but thats another story!

[Afraz]

Hi

Can I ask where you did you training £30,000 is pretty cheap! And also why did u decide to not accept the job offer?

Thanks

[MIKECR]

Did my PPL in Florida and subsequent CPL/IR/MCC in UK. Saved cash on the hour building thanks to glider towing and para dropping. Was also in a cheap Cessna syndicate which covered the cross country and touring side of things. Turned down the Ryanair interview after getting the finer details of the contract from a friend who had recently been for interview. The 25k as well as financial implications were too much outlay for me. Personal circumstances dictated it wasnt a good idea at the time so I decided not to pursue it. Ended up with interviews elsewhere. Had my circumstances been different then I would have definately went for the interview...but hey ho...everyone's situation is different.

[Afraz]

I need evreyones help on this one please. Can you please tell me if the following points are accurate/correct:

1. Most students who have finished flight training end up with Ryanair, Easyjet etc

2. These starting airlines dont care how you got your licence whether it be via the modular or integrated route

3. If you apply to BA or any other major airline (BMI, Virgin, Emirates etc) as a direct entry pilot they wont care how (integrated or modular) or where you got your licence?

Thanks once again for your help its much appreciated for a confused wannabe like myself

[Afraz]

Thanks for telling me why you didnt accept Ryanairs job offer

[preduk]

I would say most student pilots end up with jobs in Ryanair/FlyBe not Easyjet.

Easyjet mainly CTC cadets, however they have stopped this for the time being.

In terms of success on the modular course, I've never met a modular pilot who hasn't got a job but I don't know that many of them maybe 10-15.

If your applying for BA, Emirates, Virgin, Etc. then you will have a huge amount of hours so where you got your licence isn't really important.

[Afraz]

Thanks for that preduk, it really cleared something up for me. So if i'm right the airlines you will start off have no prefrence as to whether you did modular or integrated or where you trained???

So modular looks like the option for me. Can anyone tell me why I should do integrated even when:

1. Most student pilots end up with Ryanair/FlyBe
2. Ryanair/FlyBe dont care where and how you got your licence as long as you pass the selection process you will get the job

Can anyone comment on SFC's relationship with Ryanair as they claim 70% of thier graduates end up with them.

Thanks for all your help!

[Afraz]

If modular just as good as integrated why does it say on the BALPA website:

Airlines tend to favor pilots who have qualified from an integrated course,
mainly because the training standards are seen as being higher. Unfortunately some newly qualified pilots from modular courses find themselves being seen as second best by employers, and this can have a real impact on their chances of gaining employment.

How much truth is thier in this statement?

Thanks for your help!

[bajadj]

I think if you add the word "some" to the start of that quote then it would be more truthful. Also the one airline that i can think of which does only accept integrated low hours candidates, British Airways, is not recruiting ANY low hours candidates at all at the moment. I don't see very much to be gaines from an integrated course at this present time apart from if you prefer a more structured route from start to finish, which some people do.

Also BALPA tends to have a reputation of looking after the interests of the larger, more traditional airlines, which could explain why this outdated statement remains on the website.

Furthermore, why is a BRITISH organisation using the american bastardisation of "favor"????

[Afraz]

Sorry, my fault I should have included the word ''some'' at the beggining of that quote from BALPA! Can anyone tell me if thier are more modular trained pilots or integrated trained pilots working for the airlines? I have heard from a previous poster that 80% of all civil pilots trained via the modular route.

Once again thanks to evreyone who has replied

[bajadj]

I have no idea, especially as I'm a modular student myself!! but i would presume there are more modular trained guys than integrated purely due to more people training the modular route than the integrated way. If it's a ratio your after my best guess would be that there will be a greater drop out rate of mods than ints as if you jack it in at any stage on a modular course it's easier to cut your loses than if you've paid 63k up front.

The reason i would advocate modular at the moment is you have the ability put your training on hold (like i have done) , and utilise the 3 years you are allowed between groundschool and completing cpl/ir thus minimising the risk of freshly qualifying when there are no jobs (ie now). Even if you started an integrated course tomorrow, there is no guarentee there will be any jobs in 15 months, with modular you can delay your training and try!!!! and come out when the job market is better.

Also learn from my mistake of thinking modular at an integrated school is a good compromise...it isn't. I did my groundschool at a well known integrated provider and definitely felt a second class citizen. Forunately being modular i have the chance to do the flight training somewhere else.

best of luck to you in whichever route you choose.

[Nashers]

put it this way... when i did my MCC at Oxford Aviation, 2 of the instructors there (one of which is ex BA) said they themselves see no difference between modular and intergrated and think its wrong for airlines to only accept one and not the other...

oh and i know of a couple flying instructors that teach at intergrated schools having gone through modular training in the first place.

[Sciolistes]

Maybe Alex W can correct me, but the way I see it is that there as a big school student you are a known quantity, I'll wager that generally speaking, there is more transparency in the training process and your progress through it. Certain organisations are probably very well known to the hirers and firers and as such they already have a fair idea about your training and baseline standard before they meet you.

That doesn't mean to say the same is not possible about modular, just potentially less quantifiable.

I avoided saying "integrated" and used the term "big school" because that is what I meant. The majority of big schools are integrated...but not all...

...it is probably a bit disingenuous of OAA to claim that modular isn't as good as integrated seeing as they seem to offer such a product themselves!

In summary, I think one can say that 'structured modular' (OAA, CTC of old, etc) are just as relevant as integrated. What I suspect is the key point is how well known your school is to the recruiters.

[SinBin]

Utter rubbish, it might help slightly with getting your foot in the door, but that's it. I went to a small flight school, did it all modular part time and walked straight into a major airline, all off my own back.

Big school mentality is very yesterday. Reality is NO low houred people will get the sort of jobs they could get a year ago, and not for at least 3-4 years to come either regardless of where you trained, the BIG SCHOOLS will tell you what you want to hear so that you delve deep into your pockets to keep themselves afloat!

[MikeAlphaBravo]

It really depends on what you CAN do. If you have no financial limitations then make your life easier and go integrated. I did not have the option due to family commitments and financial budget so modular was the only way for me. However, modular can be as good or bad as you make it. If you put some thought into the structure of your training, and consistantly perform well throughout, there is no reason why your modular ATPL(f) is not every bit as valuable as one achieved at an integrated school. You can actually get more credit at interview for taking a tougher route to your license... For example, if you have done your training alongside a full time job and a wife and kids, the guy / gal interviewing you will be in no doubt as to your commitment....
It really is a question of personal choice, in my opinion, neither is generically better, it is what you make of it. My experiences at airline interviews suggest that the potential employer is more interested about you as a person fitting into their company. You will prove your flying ability in the sim.
With regards SFC, its a good place and CD does have links to RYR, hence the numbers of students going there. However, dont limit your options to RYR. Concentrate on getting your license then worry about who to work for. The truth is that the biggest factor that will decide whether or not you get a job will not be where you trained but the state of the job market at that time.
The most important thing is that your training will be no doubt one of the most stressful times in your life, but at the same time one of the most rewarding. The flying you will do is probably the best of your whole career, depending on which path your career takes you and you should above anything else ENJOY IT!!!! After all, its costing you quite a lot of money!!
The other thing pilots should not loose sight of is that even though this industry makes us feel the need to beg for employment, you are actually doing a job for them earning the company a lot of money. They need you as much as you need them.
Whatever you choose, good luck
MAB

[nuclear weapon]

I finished at sfc a while back having gone the modular route and am currently employed albeit outside the country but couldn't be happier. My advice to you is to chose whichever route will suite you.