View Poll Results: Type rating?
Bought Type rating - got the job
4
66.67%
Bought Type rating - told "need time on type"
1
16.67%
You were told buy the type and get the job - but did not get a job offer anyway
1
16.67%
Voters: 6. This poll is closed
Type Rating - which type, where, why pay etc?
Joined: Apr 2004
Posts: 1
Likes: 0
From: Scotland
Cheapest Multi Pilot Type Rating
Greetings folk!
Wondering if anyone has any ideas on the most cost-effective (read CHEAPEST
!) JAA MPA type rating available. I am needing my unfreeze my UK ATPL; I have >1500hrs TT, with >1000hrs multicrew ops on SPA, so am exempt MCC but still need the bleedin' MPA rating to get the JAA ATPL issued!
And of course, can't be PIC on commercial multicrew JAR OPS even on SPA without ATPL, so it's catch-22!
Anyway, looking to do the cheapest MPA rating available. Any ideas much appreciated!
Thanks and regards,
HT
Wondering if anyone has any ideas on the most cost-effective (read CHEAPEST
!) JAA MPA type rating available. I am needing my unfreeze my UK ATPL; I have >1500hrs TT, with >1000hrs multicrew ops on SPA, so am exempt MCC but still need the bleedin' MPA rating to get the JAA ATPL issued!And of course, can't be PIC on commercial multicrew JAR OPS even on SPA without ATPL, so it's catch-22!
Anyway, looking to do the cheapest MPA rating available. Any ideas much appreciated!
Thanks and regards,
HT
Joined: Jun 2000
Posts: 72
Likes: 0
From: Northern Hemisphere
Vaguely remember hearing a couple of years ago that a reasonably priced one to do would be on a Shorts Skyvan....???? Don't know where or with whom but perhaps you could check with registered UK operators of the type.....
Moderator
Joined: Dec 1997
Aviation Qualifications: ATPL
Posts: 4,929
Likes: 6
From: Suffolk UK
This question should be in Terms and Endearments. You will not be employed by BA until you are experienced (c2500 hours on commercial jets) as things stand right now. Ryan and Easy's starting pay for qualified first officers is approximately 45k pa. First officers who are in their early years of employment and paying off bonds/training will be on somewhat less. All this information can be found on www.ppjn.com
Joined: Feb 2001
Posts: 374
Likes: 0
From: AMS
Hi Huittan,
look into going abroad. - Check out countries like Czech or I think Slovenia is a full JAR member country. Did my first MPA in Czech, IAA had no problem with it. I cannot help you finding the real cheap ones, but I do know there is a L410 TRTO. Also, why not go up for 10 hours in the AN2, should be best craic ever! It is a few kilos over 5700, and even though ist's SEP, it's a MPA!
If you find out more about the Antonov, let me know and I might join you!
IP
look into going abroad. - Check out countries like Czech or I think Slovenia is a full JAR member country. Did my first MPA in Czech, IAA had no problem with it. I cannot help you finding the real cheap ones, but I do know there is a L410 TRTO. Also, why not go up for 10 hours in the AN2, should be best craic ever! It is a few kilos over 5700, and even though ist's SEP, it's a MPA!
If you find out more about the Antonov, let me know and I might join you!
IP
Beacon Outbound
Joined: Mar 2002
Aviation Qualifications: ATPL
Posts: 710
Likes: 22
From: "Home is were the answer machine is"
Huittan,
Just had a look in LASORS, section G, and as fas as I can tell you should be able to apply for your ATPL now. No MPA type rating required.
Basically, you need:
LASORS can be downloaded from the CAA website, or order a copy (it is only £10 and a very convenient reference manual to have).
Regards
Gerard
Just had a look in LASORS, section G, and as fas as I can tell you should be able to apply for your ATPL now. No MPA type rating required.
Basically, you need:
LASORS can be downloaded from the CAA website, or order a copy (it is only £10 and a very convenient reference manual to have).
Regards
Gerard
Joined: Jun 2002
Posts: 743
Likes: 1
From: Kilmacolm
Hi C152pilot,
You require a PPL (which I assume you do) and build up your hours to 150 hours total time (100 P1). During this time study for and pass the 14 ATPL Written Examinations.
After they are complete you can undergo the JAA CPL Flight Training course and Skills Test. Once you have your JAA CPL go and do your JAA IR course.
This will give you a JAA CPL/IR with ATPL Subjects Passed which some (if not most) people call a frozen ATPL which doesn't really exist.
You will probably require a MCC course certificate as well before an airline will employ you.
So once you have that lot you can apply to the airlines for your first position.
If you don't get any success you may decide to go and pay for your own Type Rating training. Again I don't like the term "buy a type rating" as you're not buying but paying your way through the training - you could still fail the training (either the ground exams or skills tests)!!!
So the answer to your question, "should i get an IF rating and build up my hours" is yes you have to go and obtain an Instrument Rating (not IMC) and a Commercial Pilots Licence before an airline will even look at you.
All the best.
Charlie Zulu
PS: Apologies if I have come across a little sharp, I'm very tired after a 12 hour working night, off to sleep in half an hour, wow!
You require a PPL (which I assume you do) and build up your hours to 150 hours total time (100 P1). During this time study for and pass the 14 ATPL Written Examinations.
After they are complete you can undergo the JAA CPL Flight Training course and Skills Test. Once you have your JAA CPL go and do your JAA IR course.
This will give you a JAA CPL/IR with ATPL Subjects Passed which some (if not most) people call a frozen ATPL which doesn't really exist.
You will probably require a MCC course certificate as well before an airline will employ you.
So once you have that lot you can apply to the airlines for your first position.
If you don't get any success you may decide to go and pay for your own Type Rating training. Again I don't like the term "buy a type rating" as you're not buying but paying your way through the training - you could still fail the training (either the ground exams or skills tests)!!!
So the answer to your question, "should i get an IF rating and build up my hours" is yes you have to go and obtain an Instrument Rating (not IMC) and a Commercial Pilots Licence before an airline will even look at you.
All the best.
Charlie Zulu
PS: Apologies if I have come across a little sharp, I'm very tired after a 12 hour working night, off to sleep in half an hour, wow!
Joined: Dec 2003
Posts: 36
Likes: 0
From: Sweden
Type Training JAA or US then conversion?
Hello all,
I am interested to know which route it the most cost effective. TRTO's usuially have better prices in the US but what is involved in converting an FAA Rating to JAA? Is it another checkride with an inspector in the sim or ?????
Much appreciate the advice.
GC
I am interested to know which route it the most cost effective. TRTO's usuially have better prices in the US but what is involved in converting an FAA Rating to JAA? Is it another checkride with an inspector in the sim or ?????
Much appreciate the advice.
GC
Joined: Aug 2002
Posts: 2,524
Likes: 1
From: United Kingdom
JAR-FCL 1.240(a)(6) -
A valid type rating contained in a licence issued by a non-JAA State may be transferred to a JAR-FCL licence, subject to the appropriate proficiency check, provided the applicant is in current flying practice and has not less than 500 hours flying experience as a pilot on that type, provided JAR-FCL 1.250, [1.251,] 1.255 or 1.260 as applicable, are met.
This is interpreted by the UK (LASORS Sect F9.1) as -
A type/class rating contained in a licence issued by a non-JAA State may be transferred to a UK issued pilot’s licence, subject to:-
i) 500 hours flying experience as pilot on type, operating as P1 or P2 appropriate to the rating required (PUT time may not be counted).
ii) Operational experience as pilot on type within the preceding 5 years.
iii) Pass a Proficiency Check on type.
iv) Have met the requirements of JAR-FCL 1.250/2.250 as applicable, including knowledge of aeroplane performance appropriate to that type (please refer to Section F4 - Knowledge of Aeroplane Performance).
Note: No take-offs and landings required in aircraft as already type rated.
Applicants who hold a valid type rating but do not meet the experience requirements above will be required to complete a course of training at an approved TRTO. The CAA may consider a reduction in the amount of training required to take account of
previous experience on type, subject to a recommendation in writing by the Head of Training. Applicants will be required to pass the written theoretical knowledge examination and a Skill Test.
My guess would be that, unless you meet the 500 hours on type requirement, it will end up more expensive to take the US route as you will have to complete some/most of the type-rating course again at a JAA-approved TRTO
A valid type rating contained in a licence issued by a non-JAA State may be transferred to a JAR-FCL licence, subject to the appropriate proficiency check, provided the applicant is in current flying practice and has not less than 500 hours flying experience as a pilot on that type, provided JAR-FCL 1.250, [1.251,] 1.255 or 1.260 as applicable, are met.
This is interpreted by the UK (LASORS Sect F9.1) as -
A type/class rating contained in a licence issued by a non-JAA State may be transferred to a UK issued pilot’s licence, subject to:-
i) 500 hours flying experience as pilot on type, operating as P1 or P2 appropriate to the rating required (PUT time may not be counted).
ii) Operational experience as pilot on type within the preceding 5 years.
iii) Pass a Proficiency Check on type.
iv) Have met the requirements of JAR-FCL 1.250/2.250 as applicable, including knowledge of aeroplane performance appropriate to that type (please refer to Section F4 - Knowledge of Aeroplane Performance).
Note: No take-offs and landings required in aircraft as already type rated.
Applicants who hold a valid type rating but do not meet the experience requirements above will be required to complete a course of training at an approved TRTO. The CAA may consider a reduction in the amount of training required to take account of
previous experience on type, subject to a recommendation in writing by the Head of Training. Applicants will be required to pass the written theoretical knowledge examination and a Skill Test.
My guess would be that, unless you meet the 500 hours on type requirement, it will end up more expensive to take the US route as you will have to complete some/most of the type-rating course again at a JAA-approved TRTO
Joined: Dec 2003
Posts: 36
Likes: 0
From: Sweden
BillieBob,
Thanks so much for the direction and insight you provided!! I will not bark up this tree any longer!! I will be looking into JAA-approved TRTO's now. I heard that SAS Flight Academy is good but expensive, any others come to mind for the A320??
Cheers,
GC
Thanks so much for the direction and insight you provided!! I will not bark up this tree any longer!! I will be looking into JAA-approved TRTO's now. I heard that SAS Flight Academy is good but expensive, any others come to mind for the A320??
Cheers,
GC
Joined: Jul 2004
Posts: 34
Likes: 0
From: Stavanger, NORWAY
Type rating or not?
I know that many of today's job vacancies, if not all, are searching for people who have certain type ratings. Is it a neccessity for a type rating or is it possible to find a job without one for a person who has an ATPL with 1000+ TT hours? How about in 2-5 years? Will airlines be looking for ab-initio pilots?
Joined: Jul 2004
Posts: 120
Likes: 0
From: UK
I'm not sure what other peoples views are on this, but I would definately advise against paying for you own TR. The reasons why I think this are two fold;
Frstly, from what I've picked up, employers don't look favourably on potiential first-officers that have payed for their own TR and don't posses any line experience.
Secondly, TR's are massively expensive and say you complete a TR on a 737 (seems to be the most popular at the mo) then you've totally norrowed your target market. Who knows where the industry might be in 5 years time?? will the low cost airline industry continue to expand at such a rate? or begin to die out as scheduled operators compete for passengers.
Frstly, from what I've picked up, employers don't look favourably on potiential first-officers that have payed for their own TR and don't posses any line experience.
Secondly, TR's are massively expensive and say you complete a TR on a 737 (seems to be the most popular at the mo) then you've totally norrowed your target market. Who knows where the industry might be in 5 years time?? will the low cost airline industry continue to expand at such a rate? or begin to die out as scheduled operators compete for passengers.
Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 23
Likes: 0
From: Canada
when you got a type rating...
all the jobs i find on the net require a type rating (e.g. 320/737) and 500 hrs on type.
How can someone get the 500 on type? It's easy buying a type rating, but how about the time?
How can someone get the 500 on type? It's easy buying a type rating, but how about the time?
Joined: Nov 1999
Posts: 221
Likes: 0
From: N55"32'0 E13"21'0
Find a real airline, who value you (us) as professionals and don't require YOU to pay for the training THEY should supply.
Think about this: Should no one pay ratings themselves, then the airlines would have no choice.
eg. How many medical doctors do you know of who pay for training on the latest medical hi tech equipment? NONE!
It is WRONG to pay for your own ratings!!!
(I know it is an utopia, but it just angers me that airlines (some) are such Pirahnas)
Your question is valid though, and I have no good answer.
Pray for better times and a lack of trained professionals...
Good luck!
Think about this: Should no one pay ratings themselves, then the airlines would have no choice.
eg. How many medical doctors do you know of who pay for training on the latest medical hi tech equipment? NONE!
It is WRONG to pay for your own ratings!!!
(I know it is an utopia, but it just angers me that airlines (some) are such Pirahnas)
Your question is valid though, and I have no good answer.
Pray for better times and a lack of trained professionals...
Good luck!
Joined: Aug 2002
Posts: 1,320
Likes: 9
From: Switzerland, Singapore
Just to answer your question: There are also airlines who allow you to pay for your 500 hrs. By asking for a bond, giving you nearly no pay, or simply by letting you pay per sector (Germania did that on 737).
But this doesn't change the fact that you are abused by the employer.
But this doesn't change the fact that you are abused by the employer.