View Poll Results: Type rating?
Bought Type rating - got the job
4
66.67%
Bought Type rating - told "need time on type"
1
16.67%
You were told buy the type and get the job - but did not get a job offer anyway
1
16.67%
Voters: 6. This poll is closed
Type Rating - which type, where, why pay etc?
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Grivation,
When challenged you claim not to have a problem with current trends and young low houred guys trying to compete in a competitive market. Yet, when you make a post yourself you seem to have a bee in your flat cap which smacks of 'it wornt like that in my day, 27 hours a day down pit.....CTC?.. pah...noothin' better than daylight robbery woodnt catch a son of mine.....'
So taking your advice, fine we will go and instruct on £12K a year with a £6K investment or, considering the £60K+ debt we have knowingly got ourselves into, look for a better paid job. So we look for regional turbo props who need less pilots than jet operatora at the moment, and we stand to be paid less....however...we could INVEST £6K with CTC (subject to passing the grade etc) and off we go onto a course that fill the void left by a duff CAA ATPL sylabus and means an airline can lose a little less sleep at the thought of dishing out £20K on a type rating to a person who has had 20 hours on a twin.
In search of the highest paid job we can find to pay back the large loan, We could INVEST in a type rating (those evil words) but I would sugest only if you have a very good chance of employment at the end of it, a la Ryanair £18K gig when it was on offer, or Easy...or Astraeus or hopefully JMC.
I am sorry Grivation if it wasnt like this in the old days, but I will do what is
financailly best for my business plan (get out of debt quickest). I was self employed for 10 years and I know all about investing large sums of money to get ahead and I will not sit around and turn down oppertunities. My bank manager would be livid in any case, and it is downright stupidity.
And I will tell you something else, if the airline industry collapsed in another big way, I would argue that it will be the LCC's out there who keep going purely by keeping expenditure low...by us paying for type ratings is an insurance that goes some way to keeping a job should it all go pear shaped further...a sound business investment i would say.
And finally, the type rating is owned by YOU. You are not shelling out cash for no return. £18K is better spent on a type rating than charging about in a light single or a twin, as yer man from Emirates said along with others at the BALPA conference.
The airline industry may not be behaving the way it should be, but terrorists shouldnt be flying airliners in to buildings should they.
When challenged you claim not to have a problem with current trends and young low houred guys trying to compete in a competitive market. Yet, when you make a post yourself you seem to have a bee in your flat cap which smacks of 'it wornt like that in my day, 27 hours a day down pit.....CTC?.. pah...noothin' better than daylight robbery woodnt catch a son of mine.....'
So taking your advice, fine we will go and instruct on £12K a year with a £6K investment or, considering the £60K+ debt we have knowingly got ourselves into, look for a better paid job. So we look for regional turbo props who need less pilots than jet operatora at the moment, and we stand to be paid less....however...we could INVEST £6K with CTC (subject to passing the grade etc) and off we go onto a course that fill the void left by a duff CAA ATPL sylabus and means an airline can lose a little less sleep at the thought of dishing out £20K on a type rating to a person who has had 20 hours on a twin.
In search of the highest paid job we can find to pay back the large loan, We could INVEST in a type rating (those evil words) but I would sugest only if you have a very good chance of employment at the end of it, a la Ryanair £18K gig when it was on offer, or Easy...or Astraeus or hopefully JMC.
I am sorry Grivation if it wasnt like this in the old days, but I will do what is
financailly best for my business plan (get out of debt quickest). I was self employed for 10 years and I know all about investing large sums of money to get ahead and I will not sit around and turn down oppertunities. My bank manager would be livid in any case, and it is downright stupidity.
And I will tell you something else, if the airline industry collapsed in another big way, I would argue that it will be the LCC's out there who keep going purely by keeping expenditure low...by us paying for type ratings is an insurance that goes some way to keeping a job should it all go pear shaped further...a sound business investment i would say.
And finally, the type rating is owned by YOU. You are not shelling out cash for no return. £18K is better spent on a type rating than charging about in a light single or a twin, as yer man from Emirates said along with others at the BALPA conference.
The airline industry may not be behaving the way it should be, but terrorists shouldnt be flying airliners in to buildings should they.
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Prob30 - What I said was that I have no problem with the QUALITY of product being produced ie. a competent driver.
I do have serious concerns, however, about what the recruitment road will look like in years to come and how schemes run by companies like CTC will affect us all.
You can wave the "it's an employer's market - I'm just making myself more employable - I'm trying to show how keen I am" flag as much as you want but you have to accept the fact that all you are doing is uping the ante in the airline's favour and making it more difficult for the people who come behind you. As someone recently said - there's a big difference between leaning forward and bending all the way over and there is certainly no excuse for providing the lubrication!
Conversation between Mr CTC and Mr BA about the possibility of BA entering into the CTC scheme for it's pilot recruitment -
Mr BA "So tell me about this CTC scheme"
Mr CTC "Well, we will select all of your new pilots for you. You'll pay for their type raings and then they will work for you for a year for next to nothing"
Mr BA "OK, I'm interested. What's in it for me?"
Mr CTC "We will do your recruiting for you. You have to pay for a type rating for them but you will easily recoup that money by not having to pay them for a year"
Mr BA "So I can get rid of my recruiting department?"
Mr CTC "Exactly"
Mr BA "How much will I have to pay?"
Mr CTC "Nothing"
Mr BA "Nothing!"
Mr CTC "That's right - the applicants will pay us to apply"
Mr BA "So what's in it for you?"
Mr CTC "Well, we will become your sole provider of pilots. People will be queing up to pay for over-priced training and selection with us."
Mr BA "So we will effectively pass all of the recruitment, training costs and training risks onto prospective pilots!"
Mr CTC "Exactly"
Mr BA "Exactly!"
I do have serious concerns, however, about what the recruitment road will look like in years to come and how schemes run by companies like CTC will affect us all.
You can wave the "it's an employer's market - I'm just making myself more employable - I'm trying to show how keen I am" flag as much as you want but you have to accept the fact that all you are doing is uping the ante in the airline's favour and making it more difficult for the people who come behind you. As someone recently said - there's a big difference between leaning forward and bending all the way over and there is certainly no excuse for providing the lubrication!
Conversation between Mr CTC and Mr BA about the possibility of BA entering into the CTC scheme for it's pilot recruitment -
Mr BA "So tell me about this CTC scheme"
Mr CTC "Well, we will select all of your new pilots for you. You'll pay for their type raings and then they will work for you for a year for next to nothing"
Mr BA "OK, I'm interested. What's in it for me?"
Mr CTC "We will do your recruiting for you. You have to pay for a type rating for them but you will easily recoup that money by not having to pay them for a year"
Mr BA "So I can get rid of my recruiting department?"
Mr CTC "Exactly"
Mr BA "How much will I have to pay?"
Mr CTC "Nothing"
Mr BA "Nothing!"
Mr CTC "That's right - the applicants will pay us to apply"
Mr BA "So what's in it for you?"
Mr CTC "Well, we will become your sole provider of pilots. People will be queing up to pay for over-priced training and selection with us."
Mr BA "So we will effectively pass all of the recruitment, training costs and training risks onto prospective pilots!"
Mr CTC "Exactly"
Mr BA "Exactly!"
PPRuNe Handmaiden
From what friends have told me CTC isn't an option if you are over 34.
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Thanks folks a good debate. Hopefully we've unearthed both sides of the argument.
For those that are still interested in the original topic - this is an abridged version of what was emailed to me recently. If you can't work out who the operator is yourself, email me and I will give you the details. No I don't work with/for and have never met them.
Quote :
A new breed of aircraft – single engine turbines – will shortly be permitted to undertake Public Transport flights in IMC, at night, and over water. In particular, the Cessna Caravan will become a very popular alternative to aircraft like the Cessna 406, Trislander, Bandeirante and Shorts 330. There will probably be about 20 – 30 Caravans on the UK fleet within 2 years.
At first, the PT operations will probably be limited to cargo work, and the CAA may be insisting on a multi crew operation. JAR 5.2.1 defines the crew experience requirements, and although the minimum hours for SE IFR is not stated (because it is not currently allowed) it appears likely that it will be 500 hours. There is no minimum experience requirement for co-pilots.
We will have a requirement of 3 pilots per aircraft, or 6 pilots per aircraft if the CAA insist on 2 crew operation. We anticipate that there will be UK employment opportunities for between 50 and 100 pilots of Caravans in the next 2 years, and there are virtually no rated pilots available at the moment.
The going rate for a class rating course on the Caravan including ground instruction, instructor fees and examiners fees is around £5,250 plus VAT. For a short time we are offering three day courses on our Caravan to suitable candidates for £3,900 plus VAT. There is a maximum of 4 students for each course.
For this you get:
Ground instruction - classroom and on the aircraft (mostly self study with assistance)
At least 4 hours of left hand seat flying under instruction.
Jump seat observation of other students as available.
One hour of flight test and a written examination.
Refreshments and lunchtime sandwiches.
All landing and navigational fees.
All instructors fees.
All examiners fees.
CAA licence fee (£100)
Copy of Cessna’s aircraft manual.
: End Quote
For those that are still interested in the original topic - this is an abridged version of what was emailed to me recently. If you can't work out who the operator is yourself, email me and I will give you the details. No I don't work with/for and have never met them.
Quote :
A new breed of aircraft – single engine turbines – will shortly be permitted to undertake Public Transport flights in IMC, at night, and over water. In particular, the Cessna Caravan will become a very popular alternative to aircraft like the Cessna 406, Trislander, Bandeirante and Shorts 330. There will probably be about 20 – 30 Caravans on the UK fleet within 2 years.
At first, the PT operations will probably be limited to cargo work, and the CAA may be insisting on a multi crew operation. JAR 5.2.1 defines the crew experience requirements, and although the minimum hours for SE IFR is not stated (because it is not currently allowed) it appears likely that it will be 500 hours. There is no minimum experience requirement for co-pilots.
We will have a requirement of 3 pilots per aircraft, or 6 pilots per aircraft if the CAA insist on 2 crew operation. We anticipate that there will be UK employment opportunities for between 50 and 100 pilots of Caravans in the next 2 years, and there are virtually no rated pilots available at the moment.
The going rate for a class rating course on the Caravan including ground instruction, instructor fees and examiners fees is around £5,250 plus VAT. For a short time we are offering three day courses on our Caravan to suitable candidates for £3,900 plus VAT. There is a maximum of 4 students for each course.
For this you get:
Ground instruction - classroom and on the aircraft (mostly self study with assistance)
At least 4 hours of left hand seat flying under instruction.
Jump seat observation of other students as available.
One hour of flight test and a written examination.
Refreshments and lunchtime sandwiches.
All landing and navigational fees.
All instructors fees.
All examiners fees.
CAA licence fee (£100)
Copy of Cessna’s aircraft manual.
: End Quote
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Self sponsored type ratings
As someone who gets more desperate for a job everyday I’m considering forking out some more of my hard earned cash on a type rating.
Now over the years a lot of people have paid different amounts of money for ratings, on various aircraft. The arguments for and against self sponsored type ratings have been around for ages and everybody has an opinion. So without going down the pros and cons avenue, for those of you who have paid for ratings, I’m curious, what did you do, who was it with, was it expensive, how long before you got the job…or are you still waiting and was it worth it?
Any info would be appreciated.
Cheers
worzel
Now over the years a lot of people have paid different amounts of money for ratings, on various aircraft. The arguments for and against self sponsored type ratings have been around for ages and everybody has an opinion. So without going down the pros and cons avenue, for those of you who have paid for ratings, I’m curious, what did you do, who was it with, was it expensive, how long before you got the job…or are you still waiting and was it worth it?
Any info would be appreciated.
Cheers
worzel
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I won't go down the long road of pro or anti type-ratings arguments, but I will make a couple of observations that you can take for what they're worth.
I think you need to decide what it is you want from a type rating. If you just want, say, a 737 rating to proudly show off on your licence (unlikely, I know), then go for the cheapest option. There are plenty of FTOs that will give you a sim course and a tech exam and spit you out after a couple of weeks with a rating. However, when you turn up at Ryan, EZ, bmi or whoever and are asked to show your paces at a sim assessment, you're unlikely to be able to impress them with your effortless skill and easy familiarity with Boeing's finest! And you're even less likely to impress in the air....
Your best option (but inevitably most expensive) is to get a rating course that includes an element of base and line training, and that can only really come from an airline. I'm not aware of many offering anything like this, but I've discovered that Astraeus are about to offer something of this nature. Perhaps most significantly, they will interview potential students beforehand using a full airline selection procedure to ensure that you won't be wasting their time and your money. The training will include line training on their revenue flights. What I heard was very interesting and well worth following up - and will have serious credibility with other airlines in your subsequent job search. I'd give them a call.
I think you need to decide what it is you want from a type rating. If you just want, say, a 737 rating to proudly show off on your licence (unlikely, I know), then go for the cheapest option. There are plenty of FTOs that will give you a sim course and a tech exam and spit you out after a couple of weeks with a rating. However, when you turn up at Ryan, EZ, bmi or whoever and are asked to show your paces at a sim assessment, you're unlikely to be able to impress them with your effortless skill and easy familiarity with Boeing's finest! And you're even less likely to impress in the air....
Your best option (but inevitably most expensive) is to get a rating course that includes an element of base and line training, and that can only really come from an airline. I'm not aware of many offering anything like this, but I've discovered that Astraeus are about to offer something of this nature. Perhaps most significantly, they will interview potential students beforehand using a full airline selection procedure to ensure that you won't be wasting their time and your money. The training will include line training on their revenue flights. What I heard was very interesting and well worth following up - and will have serious credibility with other airlines in your subsequent job search. I'd give them a call.
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I am quite sure that if you do a search on this subject on the board and read what many, many contributors have had to say about it you will be in a better position to make a decision. Like Scroggs, I'll say no more now, I think most of it has already been said.
Best of luck.
Best of luck.
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Worzel, I know that it's difficult to find that first arline job but if I were you I wouldn't pay for any type rating. Let me give you a few examples of why not.
A colleague of mine paid out about £7,000 for a rating on an F27 in the spring of 2001; he had gone through the selection process of this particular airline. After successfully completeing the course he flew the aircraft, with the airline that carried out his training, for 18 months. This same airline has recently made ALL of it's pilot's redundant as it is changing over to the Fokker50, and guess what. The pilots can have their jobs back if they fork out once again for the F50 rating! Now he can't find another First Officer's job because he is not rated on the required aircraft. He is virtually back to square one but £7,000 worse off.
I myself work for a relatively small turbo prop operator. You would be amazed at the amount of cvs that we receive from people with various jet ratings, that they have paid for, yet searching for that first position on a turbo prop.
Scroggs talks about the Astraeus set up. Perhaps he wouldn't be so keen if there hadn't been a tie up for the initial setting up of training new F/Os with Pprune & in particular JM. Why on earth should anyone have to pay an employer to work for them? In any other industry/profession this would be a totally illegal practice. Without any airline employee the airline ceases to exist so please remember that it should be a mutual thing: they can't fly without the pilots!
Since sharks such as CTC, Ryanair and the above mentioned -We've Got Scots On Board, Scramble The RAF!! - have gone down the route of self funded F/O jobs, more and more airlines have started to do the same thing: even Aer Aran Express is now looking for 20,000 euros for an ATR rating. Do you want to contribute to this ethos? Because if people continue to pay for ratings then the already over crowded pond of "free" first jobs will get smaller and smaller, whilst even those with the cash will begin to find that they can't buy that first job anymore as competition has increased there also.
A colleague of mine paid out about £7,000 for a rating on an F27 in the spring of 2001; he had gone through the selection process of this particular airline. After successfully completeing the course he flew the aircraft, with the airline that carried out his training, for 18 months. This same airline has recently made ALL of it's pilot's redundant as it is changing over to the Fokker50, and guess what. The pilots can have their jobs back if they fork out once again for the F50 rating! Now he can't find another First Officer's job because he is not rated on the required aircraft. He is virtually back to square one but £7,000 worse off.
I myself work for a relatively small turbo prop operator. You would be amazed at the amount of cvs that we receive from people with various jet ratings, that they have paid for, yet searching for that first position on a turbo prop.
Scroggs talks about the Astraeus set up. Perhaps he wouldn't be so keen if there hadn't been a tie up for the initial setting up of training new F/Os with Pprune & in particular JM. Why on earth should anyone have to pay an employer to work for them? In any other industry/profession this would be a totally illegal practice. Without any airline employee the airline ceases to exist so please remember that it should be a mutual thing: they can't fly without the pilots!
Since sharks such as CTC, Ryanair and the above mentioned -We've Got Scots On Board, Scramble The RAF!! - have gone down the route of self funded F/O jobs, more and more airlines have started to do the same thing: even Aer Aran Express is now looking for 20,000 euros for an ATR rating. Do you want to contribute to this ethos? Because if people continue to pay for ratings then the already over crowded pond of "free" first jobs will get smaller and smaller, whilst even those with the cash will begin to find that they can't buy that first job anymore as competition has increased there also.
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I should mention - in view of The Potter's outburst - that I have nothing professionally whatsoever to do with CTC, EZ or Astraeus, all of which I've mentioned recently. Nor had I anything to do with the Pprune/Astraeus cadetship scheme. I do, however, have friends in these and other organisations, and I pass on the information purely to help you in your search for your first job. It's no skin off my nose whatever course you finally take!
Incidentally, the Astraeus scheme is being launched because there is a large commercial demand for type ratings, both from individuals and other operators. They have decided that they will not just take the money but, to protect their reputation, they will go through the procedure I outlined above. They are aware that line training may be seen as 'paying to fly', and will explain in detail where the balance lies in the costs incurred and the benefits achieved by both the airline and the individual. There is no suggestion of paying for jobs; this is purely a type rating and training package.
Anyway, at the end of the day you have to deal with the world as it is rather than how you would like it to be. When you're running one of these companies, then you can decide how you operate your recruiting.
Lastly, Potter, if you have a comment to make about Astraeus' handling of the unpleasant incident on their aircraft the other night, make it openly and in the correct forum.
Incidentally, the Astraeus scheme is being launched because there is a large commercial demand for type ratings, both from individuals and other operators. They have decided that they will not just take the money but, to protect their reputation, they will go through the procedure I outlined above. They are aware that line training may be seen as 'paying to fly', and will explain in detail where the balance lies in the costs incurred and the benefits achieved by both the airline and the individual. There is no suggestion of paying for jobs; this is purely a type rating and training package.
Anyway, at the end of the day you have to deal with the world as it is rather than how you would like it to be. When you're running one of these companies, then you can decide how you operate your recruiting.
Lastly, Potter, if you have a comment to make about Astraeus' handling of the unpleasant incident on their aircraft the other night, make it openly and in the correct forum.
Last edited by scroggs; 15th Dec 2002 at 15:57.
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Worzel,
If you can afford a type rating, as Scroggs suggests, one that includes an element of line training is best, and apart from the Astraeus route, there isn't much option.
These American jobs are all a load of bull and not a simple as they make out, with FAA issues.
Edited to remove unnecessarily insulting language about another Ppruner
Scroggs
If you can afford a type rating, as Scroggs suggests, one that includes an element of line training is best, and apart from the Astraeus route, there isn't much option.
These American jobs are all a load of bull and not a simple as they make out, with FAA issues.
Edited to remove unnecessarily insulting language about another Ppruner
Scroggs
Last edited by scroggs; 17th Dec 2002 at 13:02.
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Thanks to those who have given positive responses and scroggs for the info on Astraeus.
I did do a search before I made this posting. The wannabes forum appears to be one of the busiest on pprune, and I’ve noticed that the same subjects do come up time and again. My search came back with approx 500 results. Having started reading through these (not all of them I confess), I came across a lot of posts arguing over the pros and cons of self sponsored ratings and the odd rant about how they are bad for the industry, but none specifically on the area I’m interested in. I agree with many of the points bought up on previous discussions, which is why I said in my original post ‘without going down the pros and cons avenue’.
I’m specifically looking for information from people who have paid for ratings themselves. I would like to know how their careers were affected following these ratings, did they get jobs, or are they still looking, would THEY recommend doing a rating and if so, on what. Perhaps I’m in the wrong place, as those who have gained a position are probably not scanning through the wannabes forum anymore, but it seems as good a place as any to start.
The same subjects do come up time and again on this forum and I apologise if any of this has come up before, but if your willing to offer any constructive advice, I and many other desperate wannabes are listening.
worzel
I did do a search before I made this posting. The wannabes forum appears to be one of the busiest on pprune, and I’ve noticed that the same subjects do come up time and again. My search came back with approx 500 results. Having started reading through these (not all of them I confess), I came across a lot of posts arguing over the pros and cons of self sponsored ratings and the odd rant about how they are bad for the industry, but none specifically on the area I’m interested in. I agree with many of the points bought up on previous discussions, which is why I said in my original post ‘without going down the pros and cons avenue’.
I’m specifically looking for information from people who have paid for ratings themselves. I would like to know how their careers were affected following these ratings, did they get jobs, or are they still looking, would THEY recommend doing a rating and if so, on what. Perhaps I’m in the wrong place, as those who have gained a position are probably not scanning through the wannabes forum anymore, but it seems as good a place as any to start.
The same subjects do come up time and again on this forum and I apologise if any of this has come up before, but if your willing to offer any constructive advice, I and many other desperate wannabes are listening.
worzel
I say there boy
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Well put worzel. I'm in a very similar position to yourself.
As was put very succinctly by Hamrah at the wannabes seminar on Friday, in the current economic environment, no airline wants to type-rate a new hire if it can get away with it. It is simply too risky for them to splash out £20,000+ on someone who may struggle or even fail. That is why the likes of Ryanair and Easyjet are hoovering up the supply of already-rated pilots, whereas the bottom-feeding TP companies are insisting that you buy a Shed/F27 rating before you get a look in. This will change over time with market forces as the outlook improves, however currently it is the case.
So what do you do? Sit waiting watching your skills go off the boil, pursue the instructing route to hours to find that there are few vacancies in that area anyway and the hours gained don't necessarily improve your chances with an airline, or buy a type rating which might turn out to be an almighty gamble, or might just get your foot in the door of an airline.
It's a very tough call to make. However you seem, as I am trying to do, to be considering all eventualities, so more power to you, mate.
As was put very succinctly by Hamrah at the wannabes seminar on Friday, in the current economic environment, no airline wants to type-rate a new hire if it can get away with it. It is simply too risky for them to splash out £20,000+ on someone who may struggle or even fail. That is why the likes of Ryanair and Easyjet are hoovering up the supply of already-rated pilots, whereas the bottom-feeding TP companies are insisting that you buy a Shed/F27 rating before you get a look in. This will change over time with market forces as the outlook improves, however currently it is the case.
So what do you do? Sit waiting watching your skills go off the boil, pursue the instructing route to hours to find that there are few vacancies in that area anyway and the hours gained don't necessarily improve your chances with an airline, or buy a type rating which might turn out to be an almighty gamble, or might just get your foot in the door of an airline.
It's a very tough call to make. However you seem, as I am trying to do, to be considering all eventualities, so more power to you, mate.
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In Spain AeroMadrid has installed a FFS Level D of Airbus 320 and they are going to offer Type Rating including Base Training for over 21.000 Euros (to be confirmed)
As far as I know - I am thinking to do this - there is a queue list of people waiting for the final approval as TRTO (begining of 2003).
I have not found other option for Type Rating.
Dennisb
As far as I know - I am thinking to do this - there is a queue list of people waiting for the final approval as TRTO (begining of 2003).
I have not found other option for Type Rating.
Dennisb
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In principle I am against self-sponsored type ratings. Having said that I fully understand the situation for desperate wannabes. I have been searching for that first job since September and whilst I am not totally desperate yet, that day may one day come.
I am about to embark on the flight instructor route, in the hope that this will be a step in the right direction. This is more expense but I see no real alternative. If I had the hours I would probably apply for the EasyJet scheme but with factoring I am well short. Catch 22 really, I have to speculate to accumulate!
I am about to embark on the flight instructor route, in the hope that this will be a step in the right direction. This is more expense but I see no real alternative. If I had the hours I would probably apply for the EasyJet scheme but with factoring I am well short. Catch 22 really, I have to speculate to accumulate!
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Worzel
A point I should have made earlier - most of those Ppruners who've obtained a job shift their focus from Wannabes to other forums. You might like to post this question in Terms and Endearments or Questions to get the feedback from those who've succeeded.
Obviously, those who haven't (yet) will still be here!
A point I should have made earlier - most of those Ppruners who've obtained a job shift their focus from Wannabes to other forums. You might like to post this question in Terms and Endearments or Questions to get the feedback from those who've succeeded.
Obviously, those who haven't (yet) will still be here!
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Paying for a type ratng is sheer madness, is if we haven't forked out enough already! As soon as airlines pick up on others doing this then everyone will be paying for there own. Its the people who decide to do this that push the others down and make it harder than it all ready is.
As for airlines making you pay to get experience, thats just a big p*** take if you ask me, it needs putting an end to fast before it gets out of hand. If no-one paid for thier rating without a job guarantee the airlines woul be up s*** creek!
I'm sure they'll be laughing at YOU all the way to the bank!!!!!!!!
As for airlines making you pay to get experience, thats just a big p*** take if you ask me, it needs putting an end to fast before it gets out of hand. If no-one paid for thier rating without a job guarantee the airlines woul be up s*** creek!
I'm sure they'll be laughing at YOU all the way to the bank!!!!!!!!