Wannabe a pilot! (And I'm too damn lazy to do a search)

[BitMoreRightRudder]

Ritzer

Try not to worry about the debate you started. Mod.v Intergrated will be argued out on these forums long after we are all departed (if RYR haven't forced Danny out of business). You need to choose a school and location that is right for YOUR personal circumstances. If you want to be near family and friends for support then find somewhere near your home. If you want to train in a 'club' atmosphere then choose a small airfield/school. If you would like somewhere warm with a beach then it's abroad, or Bournemouth failing that . Point is it's no use signing up to something like Oxford thinking it will improve your job prospects and then finding it doesn't suit you, and you are unhappy there.

To avoid this firstly read the sticky at the top of the page as was offered to you, if you haven't already. Secondly when it becomes time to look at various training establishments make sure you travel to look at each one. I mean go visit, have a look at their facilities, have a look at the aircraft and have a look at the area nearby if you plan living there. Talk to the instructors there, the support staff, but most importantly talk to some of the current students, they will the best sourse of information and will tell you what the school is really like to train at. Ignore any brochures you are sent/pick up - all they are useful for is telling you how much you would be paying, if you got through the course in minimum hours and didn't need to eat or have the occassional beer.

When you have carefully chosen the school that best matches your requirements, you can then worry about whether you will be on an integrated or modular course. The only 'fact' I will offer you regarding that debate is that despite what Oxford et al may want you to believe, modular guys get jobs just the same as integrated guys get jobs. The problem is getting your foot in the door, and there is no evidence - despite what has been said on this thread by some - that conclusively prooves an integrated course will get you that first airline job quicker. The majority of guys I fly with either got their initial training through the forces or paid as they went on a modular course, and used several different schools. I'm not offering that as a scientific survey result, just what I've noticed from talking to fellow pilots in my airline.

Pprune is a good source of info but you have to sort through the threads and establish the good info/advice from the bad, and that takes a bit of time. I can't stress enough; don't let what you read on here have too much of an influence on your decision as to where or how you undertake your basic licence training.Where you train is important, so you are wise to seek the advice of others, just be aware of the limitations of asking such a generic question on this forum! Having read your posts I'm sure like the vast majority of us you can most likely only afford one shot at basic training, so just make sure it is your decision.

Good Luck

[RITZER82]

Thanks guys again a very interesting debate been argued here, like I say I shall be definately training in the UK as I need to be close with my parents as they are both disabled, but I am thinking of going to New Zealand for a holiday with my family and checking out a few flight schools there, and the question whether I should do the integrated or the modular approach still is an issue that I need to decide and establish.

I suppose if you come out of flight school having successfully passed the course whether being the modular or the integrated route, hours will still be lowand as RYR has commented that there are a lot of pilots with low hours out there you can always add more hours by taking block flying time such as going to the states where it provides cheap hour building flights.

further views will be always appreciated on this thread, thanks

[da come back kid]

Advice on becoming a pilot (merged)

Hello people,as you might gather,im new to this and what buch of people you seem like,from my earliest time think i think ive always wannted to become a pilot but numereous factors,academic and finance's have hindered me,im 27 and am seriously considering doing it in 2007 in the fall.would I be considered too old to do so for abinito training and if not which flight school would be the better choice? oxford or jerez? thanks guys.

[Leezyjet]

Try running a search in the wannabe's section. All your questions and ones you hadn't even thought of will be answered there.

[scroggs]

All together now: Archive Reference Threads - READ BEFORE YOU POST A QUESTION

Scroggs

[JAG3]

HOW?

Ive been interested for years in the raf and applying for WSO but in the last few weeks i have been wondering about a civilian airline pilot. I know all the requirements for the raf aircrew but dont know much for a civi pilot.
I was wondering if anyone could post some advice about:-
What the educational requirements?
Medical requirements?
Way of life eg. hours, travel and culture?
How to join?
Do you need a PPL?
RAF or Commercial?

Sorry guys just realised this is probably the wrong forum!
You dont have to reply

Thanks for your advice?

[thirtysomething]

Meat bomb becoming a pilot ?

Hi,

Im 29 and have about 50 hours flying time.. in freefall . I have done a bit of unnoficial right hand seat stuff in our pilatus pc6 ( odd plane to fly i am told but i make a reasonable job of it ) . I am thinking about rekindling a childhood ambition and hope this is the correct forum section. If not I apologise in advance and ask to be " moved "

I can afford about 50,000 stg training fees without a bond due to my financial postion and am aged 29. I live in Madrid. I read here there is some training operation in Jerez but the buzz seems to be about oxford.

Does my age ( i see a lot of 21 year old people talking about Oxford and im only thinking about it ) count against me in reality ?

I can do the PPL here at our skydiving centre quite cheaply , but ( and perhaps its just marketing ) Oxford say on their website its better to do everything with them. Is a PPL a PPL no matter where its done UK / US / Spain ?

One thought for myself to hour build is to work towards being an instructor ( currently im a skydiving instructor aswell as the MD of the school ) , what are the minimum hours required to become an instructor?

Lastly ( and if you have got this far I thank you for your patience ) could somebody direct me to a good website with a clear breakdown of whats required / involved in the various ratings ?

Thank you

David

[scroggs]

Archive Reference Threads - READ BEFORE YOU POST A QUESTION

Scroggs

[balhambob]

THirtysomething,

I find myself in a pretty similar position to you.

I'm 30 years old and a chartered accountant but am considering taking the plunge in the next 6 months. I have about 70 grand saved up. I have done quite a bit of reseach but still have alot to find out.

Try looking on www.gapan.org for an article called 'so you want to be a pliot'

I get the feeling its gonna be a hard road ahead but the end result would be an amazing career if all went to plan.

Some initial thoughts I have (others please feel free to shoot me down if you think I'm wrong):

• I am 30 and would like to get quilified ASAP so will be prob go for an intergrated course with one of the big flight schools. This will be quickest route to frozen ATPL
• Take what the flights schools say with a large pinch of sale. I had a long chat recently with OAT and they told me the market was buoyant and that 95% of grads were gaining employment within a year - I find that hard to believe when looking at the threads been posted on this site
• Cabair seems to offer pretty much the same package as OAT but at 10 grand cheaper.
• Stapleford in Essex seems to be about another 10 grand cheaper than Cabair
• If I can get qualified at 32 I dont think age would count against me. I'm sure I could put a positive spin on it and work it to my advantage over other candidates when applying to airlines.

Would be interested to hear how you get on/progress with your plans

Also would like to know more about type ratings:

• How do you decide which one to do?
• Does it vastly improve your chances of landing a job?

Good Luck

Rob

[thirtysomething]

Hi Rob,

Im glad to hear from you. I took the advice in the other reply and have been sobered but not dettered. I live in Madrid so im also looking at Jerez ( great weather ). In terms of the age i have reached the same conclusion as you, i have my advantages in the sense that i have taken a few knocks and had my share of success. I think at 19 i would not have been ready to do it , thinking life owed me something.


I am gonna enrol for a PPL on Monday and see that I really do like flying and dont struggle too much with that. During that I plan to do the GAPEN tests which are mandatory in any case to be accepted onto the Integrated course.

David

[AeroEng]

Advice on becoming a pilot

Like many of you out there i am a wanabee pilot. I have one year left at uni after which i will begin focusing all my energy on becoming a pilot.

What i am looking for is some good advice on the different routes to becoming an airline pilot and any experiences people may have had.

I dont what this to become like the other threads on this wanabee forum with people like myself looking for advice and being met with the usual negative attitude of how becoming a pilot is too difficult and how theres not enough jobs and so on....

I accept that this is a competitive industry and that it can be difficult to get started but when you want something enough there is always a way.

Cheers

[mcgoo]

start here mate, this will keep you busy for a few hours!

http://www.pprune.org/forums/showthread.php?t=131649

[VFE]

What i am looking for is some good advice on the different routes to becoming an airline pilot and any experiences people may have had.

If I could 'do it all again' the route I'd choose would be modular unless part-sponsorship is still a possibility?

I would do the PPL and CPL in the USA with the ATPL groundschool at Bristol. I'd even consider FAA PPL if it were cheaper. You only need an ICAO PPL and 150 hours to start the JAA CPL.

For the IR I'd choose BCFT at Bournemouth.

MCC? Cheapest available.

I would also factor for the flying instructor rating at the end - screw the self funded type rating 'option' - ethically it's amoral, shows financial immaturity to potential employers, and most importantly it's too much money for the slight increase in job prospects it provides.... IMHO, of course. However, if you landed a job on the basis of paying for your type rating I'd forget about the FIC.

Take one step at a time. Don't be afraid to spend time on your training - aeroplanes will still need pilots by the time you qualify and the longer it takes the more you'll be able to evaluate whether the career is definately for you. People admire someone who has 'come up through the system' as it were, as opposed to integrated guys (sorry integrated guys!).

Lastly, I'd be prepared for disappointment at the end - those who give up the dream are roughly a silent 45% of the total who qualify.

Good luck!

VFE.

[bishop99]

I can see this turning into a modular Vs Intergrated debate again.

[VFE]

Well if that helps the kids looking at jumping through the hoops today then so be it!

VFE.

[hardcase]

i would choose PAT in Bournemouth over BCFT for your IR

similar aircraft with fantastic instructors

[CAT3C AUTOLAND]

Aero Eng,

You will find all sorts of opinions here, and take some with a pinch of salt, as alot of people, myself included will promote 'the way they did it' to be the best way, however, that may not suit you. You can get a flavour from PPRUNE on what it is all about, but visit these places and get a feel for yourself.

I must admit, from reading VFE's post, I found the whole post quite depressing. You already know it is going to be hard work, and may take a while to get where you want to be, however, with hard work and determination you will reach your goal.

From experience of my own and from flying with people who have done PPL and commercial courses in the USA, I would complete all professional flight training in the UK if you can afford it. Flying an aeroplane is flying an aeroplane, but for the ease of becoming comfortable and confident flying in UK airpspace for you IR, I would do your CPL in the UK.

With regard to type ratings, well, its an option. I have no first hand experience, due to the fact I do not have the money to pay for one, however, everyone I know who has done one, has landed a job flying the aircraft they are rated on.

All the best with it, as we know its hard work, however, enjoy it!

[VFE]

Yes PAT are great too - the Mollisons know their stuff alright. They were my first choice 6 years ago when I was looking at routes/options, a top outfit.

I am probably one of the only guys around here who have experienced both modular and integrated routes so therefore (dons big head) I like to think I know my stuff.

On balance, integrated was too much money for too little. Granted, I started an integrated school just after 911 and not long after the inception of the JAA so ground instructors and us students both had our work cut out. What I disliked was the 'subordinate' mentality of the establishment at the particular school I was paying (they have since sold out, changed heads etc..). When you are paying big bucks, the last thing you need is to be made to feel like a schoolkid, it is not only patronising but very demoralising, not to mention bloody annoying seeing as your money is financing their lifestyle - there was no consumer sensibility whatsoever and that is the biggest problem with training providers of the larger variety. That was my main gripe - plus the fact the groundschool notes were crap and I failed three out of my first six exams and wasn't 'allowed' to start flying training despite the fact my money had been nestling in their bank account and making them interest for nigh on 3 months at least...

Modular suited me far more and therefore that is the route I'll naturally advocate because that is when I gained control of my destiny and started to succeed so CAT3C Autoland is quite right on that score. One doesn't like to sound depressing but some reality is always required on these pages from time to time. PPRuNe will not get you through the training - hard graft, motivation and an inner conviction that you are fundamentally right in your aim is the key to getting through (and that can often spell 'selfishness' to those you love) but the last thing you need is problems with your training provider. It is a tough ole trip so apologies if I sound depressing but I'm a realist now and from briefly looking around wannabe's this week for the first time in yonks, there aren't too many of us posting these days.

You pays your money and you takes your choice/gamble. The only irrefutable peice of advice out there is that you should never pay up front - no matter how good the deal, in fact that should ring even bigger alarm bells. And if you want a tip from me: factor in an instructor rating at the end, register for tax before commencing your PPL training and claim back all your VAT at the end because you can be classed as 'self-employed instructor'. Now, had someone told me that at the start I'd be about £10K better off! Be warned you only have six months after 'purchasing your services' to register and claim back the VAT. So do it before you start your training.

The VAT on your training, maps, pens, clothing, you name it... can all be claimed back. The Inland Revenue may need to see a business plan regarding your self-employed status but apart from adding VAT to your fee's when you instruct you'll just need to keep all your invoices. Start being sensible about your money from the very beginning and you'll notice that your attention for small detail on the training side is increased because you're already becoming accustomed to the pilots mentality of analysing the finer points and looking after yourself. Self preservation is a key instinct in becoming a pilot and that works on more than a primary survival level.

Remember: it is Commercial aviation so, leave the heart out when making decisions.

VFE.

[sicky]

Can you only claim back the VAT if you go on to instruct?

[VFE]

Well the Inland Revenue will probably want to know some further details of your business so therefore I guess you'll only manage that if you're self employed instructor or self employed commercial pilot.

Many chopper CPL's do it but for some reason fixed wing don't bother, probably because they didn't realise, like me!

VFE.