Wannabe a pilot! (And I'm too damn lazy to do a search)

[Mooney12]

http://www.ctcaviation.com/wings

Have a look there...If you want to come out of training and straight into employment in a jet, without having to go through all the stress and hassle of job hunting, then try that.

[RITZER82]

Very nice Mooney but isnt it extremely tough to get a place in CTC, thanks.

[captwannabe]

RITZER82,

Have a look at the following for JAA training:
Flight Training Europe - www.flighttrainingeurope.com
Sigmar/43 Air School - www.sigmaraviation.com / www.43airschool.com
Oxford Aviation Training - www.oxfordaviation.net
Atlantic Flight Training - www.flyaft.com
Stapleford Flight Centre - www.flysfc.com
Cabair - www.cabair.com
Scandinavian Aviation Academy - www.bfsaa.se
Aerofan - www.aerofanfto.com
Global Aviation - www.globalaviation.gr/en/
Malaysia Flying School - www.hmaerospace.com
Western Australian Aviation College - www.waaviationcollege.com.au

For flight training in NZ and OZ, have a look at the Dunnunda & Godzone forums. There's a lot of helpful people and information there, and the state of the industry there.

Do a search for these FTOs on these forums to find more info. You could be reading them a while.

Good luck!

[Lucifer]

If you think that as it is 'hard' CTC is not worth trying, then why bother wasting your money at all when you will up against such highly trained guys at futuer job interviews? Look at the link I have reposted at the bottom of my prior reply.

You can't enter this profession on a whim - do you know what you are up against if you think CTC is hard?!

[RITZER82]

Now dont get me wrong Im not saying becoming an airline pilot is going to be a doddle I just meant that I dont reach CTC's minimun requiremnt of A levels in Maths and Physics which I have a GNVQ in Business and Finance and it clearly states not to bother applying if you do not meet the minimum requirement. I think they have every rights to be picky as there are more people applying for the course than there is places and therefore they will be looking at people with more then the minimum required qualifications, and isnt it true that the airline is picking up once again not just in Europe but in particular Asia and the middle east where I am hoping to get an airline pilots job there and once I have built enough hours I shall hopefully return to good old England and apply to English airlines, thanks.

[MonarchA330]

RITZER82,

Not sure if you read the CTC requirements properley, but there is no requirement to have A Levels in Maths and Physics.

There is a requirement to have a GCSE in Maths and A science subject (plus the need of 3 other GCSE's), but not A Levels in them.

M330

[RYR-738-JOCKEY]

Lucifer...DITTO! I couldn't agree more..To all of you wannabees who consider to have flying as a profession, don't do the mistake and think about costcutting. I have many friends who did that and where are they now? Flipping burgers on McDonald's. Quality costs. I've talked to many who did their training through the local flying club and who think they had their time of their life...BUT, very few of them are working for major airlines now. If you're happy with a future as an instructor on SEP or fire watch in a C-172, then be my guest. But if you have higher ambitions, go for quality such as Oxford, Cabair and the like.

[mcgoo]

what a load of bull! I am as ambitious as the next man and I don't see how spending more than double what I will be paying on training will make me any more ambitious or skillful, i will still be passing the same skills tests etc.

[The African Dude]

if you have higher ambitions, go for quality such as Oxford, Cabair and the like

That's personal opinon, a gross generalisation and overlooks the fact that a) RITZER82 said it's way over his budget and b) this isn't an integrated vs. modular thread.

[Lucifer]

As you will not be under the same intensive learning - pure and simple - see the last comment on my point (b) below.

When you sit in the sim for the first time at any airline, do you think they want someone who is proven to have passed a course that puts them under pressure to achieve results in the minimum time, or someone who has achieved - but there is no evidence either way of whether or not they are capable of achieving in the minimum time?

If you answer is "yes siree, let's waste the shareholders' money", then I am afraid you have chosen incorrectly.


mcgoo - from your perspective - do you view saving as the cash saving on the course, or do you include lost earnings through longer times training, time spent waiting for interview, time spent waiting for integrated guys to be recruited ahead of you etc?

African Dude - he/she asked "Hi I wonder if anyone can kindly advice me on what you think will be the best course of action to take in order to become a fully qualified commercial airline pilot." You would be naive to suggest that debate is not part and parcel of such.

[mcgoo]

lucifer

my training will not take longer at all, i did my ppl in november last year, i'vew just done mod 1 of atpl exams and have mod 2 booked for september with hour building in november with multi and cpl and then IR and MCC early next year, all this while working 10-12 hours a day full time, if that's not an intensive high pressure learning environment then i don't know what is, and money wise, i will complete all my training for about 25-30k, an integrated course will cost about 70k all in plus my loss of earnings, so i will be saving about 70k doing it my way rather than integrated and for that sort of money no i dont mind having to get off my backside and go the extra mile knocking on doors and tracking the right people down to get my interviews

also surely getting a job comes down the person at the end of the day, you think people who have been on an integrated course and been offered an interview will automatically get the job, i think not

[The African Dude]

Lucifer: Wrong.

Copied from the original post, he asks:

"Oxford (OAT) and Cabair has proved to be very costly and way over my budget and the last thing I want will be to take up a loan in order to help me finance the flying course ......
"..... Can anyone advice me on what good flight schools I can go to ......bear in mind the total cost of the course"

Modular vs. Integrated has been debated ad infinitum, it's a waste of Danny's bandwidth to say anything other than "do a search for mod vs. integrated if you can't decide between them".

As for the intensity of the learning - where does one stand if doing a Modular course whilst working? It would be naive to suggest that Bristol Groundschool students who do the course over a long period of time do not do as well as those who do it in minimum time.

And finally, "puts them under pressure to achieve results in the minimum time" - I beleive flying schools make money from students who have to buy extra hours over the legal minimum. Not with unneccesary training either - I would doubt that the minimum time pressure is anything but a function of the students state of mind and wallet, both of which have a limit somewhere!


Edit to add: as for Modular "longer times training, time spent waiting for interview, time spent waiting for integrated guys to be recruited ahead of you" - well I think you should really back up what you say with evidence unless you want to lose credibility!

[Lucifer]

I neither suggested you are lazy nor that anyone automatically gets any job. Rather that one is viewed and proven in companies as a lower training risk than another.

Those are facts in the industry, not a matter of personal judgement over anyone's particular choices.

Am I wrong or are you trying to convince yourself you are right? I wonder.

[mcgoo]

you can wonder what you like lucifer, i don't need to convince myself of anything, if i don't get a job, i don't simple as that, i wont have lost anything, if i do get a job, then i will be over the moon and without having a huge debt or staking my parents house on the gamble.

[The African Dude]

"Those are facts in the industry" - May I see them please? I read the mod vs integrated thread but never saw them
Note that I did at no point advocate Modular over Integrated - once again, it has been debated over and over again on here. RITZER82, make your choice on the basis that with a frozen ATPL and minimum hours getting a job will be down to luck and contacts, and when you have lots of experience it will be irrelevant where you trained anyway. Good luck!

[RITZER82]

Very interesting comments guys thanks, but this has left me very confused indeed, I still want to definately push my career as an airline pilot but now I cant decide if I want to go for a Modular or an integrated course as everyone has a mixed feeling about it on this thread and else where, but I have at last decided that I shall do my training in the UK rather then abroad such as with OAT or Cabair which I am about to book a seminer with Cabair very soon. My uncle who is a Captain for Qatar airways done his modular training with Cabair and recommended them. By the way what do flight schools test you on for their assessment process and I just want to know what topics to concetrate on in Maths and Physics as I have just pulled out my dusty GCSE text books which I used 7 years ago, thanks.

[Pilot Ginj]

Originally Posted by RITZER82

... I dont reach CTC's minimun requiremnt of A levels in Maths and Physics which I have a GNVQ in Business and Finance a....

Ritzer I agree with some of the other guys.. would it not be worth giving CTC a shot? I have a GNVQ in Engineering, no A-Levels and am half way through the course... Don't be put off by requirements laid down on websites etc.. Its always worth giving it a shot regardless

Regards homesickness, this aint the sort of career where your home at 5pm everynight, get used to the travelling

[RITZER82]

Unfortunately I have a D in Maths and Science even in my GCSE level as the reason why I had poor GCSE grades was because I had family issues and had to move right in my final years of my GCSE therefore by going to a different high school they had different GCSE syllabus, sucks doesnt it.

[RYR-738-JOCKEY]

Being under pressure in the sence that you have to work, and because of that you cannot give the training your full attention....that's impressing, however it won't make you a better pilot. It should take two years, 100% focus, to get a fATPL. If you don't have the money or the time, then you have to aim accordingly, carreer-wise. There are thousands of lowtimers out there, you need to stand out of the crowd.

[XL5]

I'll play devil's advocate on this one.

From Lucifer

As you will not be under the same intensive learning - pure and simple

Sometimes this intensive learning achieves little, it can in fact prove counter productive. True that it's a vehicle for rapidly hauling someone up to pass standard but the trip to examination proficiency unfortunately allows little time for the assimilation and consolidation of that which has been learned. The end product is that of the monkey see monkey do variety rather than one having any depth of ability.

For push-button aircraft though a monkey works just fine, so perhaps the banana route is the way to go. And after all, any practice that saves the shareholders money (you did bring that up somewhere) must be a good and noble thing, right?

In the training environment I've encountered those having type ratings acquired rapidly with no time on type. All goes well until the script departs from that which has been rehearsed, things then fall apart because there's no reservoir of competency attained by experience from which to draw.

Successful navigation through the obstacle course for today's airline employment may well require some form of integrated training, but your stated competency and suitability advantages of such training are completely duff.