Multi Crew Co-operation Course (MCC)
You can put in your logbook anything you like, it is after all your personal record. However, the hours of the MCC course will not count towards the minimum requirements for the issue of any licence or rating.
By all means put MCC hrs in the back of your logbook in a seperate section - anything else will look like "padding" out. An MCC does not teach you to operate an aircraft merely to wok as a crew. If it was allowable sim time then you could knock 20 hrs off a type-rating but you can't for obious reasons.
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The sim hours (FNPTII or better) do count towards licence issue. You can use upto 100hrs sim time in your ATPL upgrade; that just leaves 1400 to fly yourself!
IMHO the MCC course that gives you the most hand-flying will help you when it comes to a Sim assessment, unless you also plan to pay for a JOC.
HOWEVER this is a short term view, it will help you get the job(as long as the sim ride is in the three months after your MCC), it will not help you in the longer term. As professionals with safety being at the core of every decision you make I would suggest that you take the longer-term view and do yourselves and your passengers a favour.
You've got the licence and you have already proved what you are capable of, nothing is more of a true test of skill than the UK IR. You will ALL get that elusive job in the end. Take the opportunity to get the very most out of what will be one of the few extensive MCC/CRM courses you will ever do in your career. Human factors is the biggest threat to aviation, spend some time learning skills and techniques that you can fall back on when the need arises.
IMHO the MCC course that gives you the most hand-flying will help you when it comes to a Sim assessment, unless you also plan to pay for a JOC.
HOWEVER this is a short term view, it will help you get the job(as long as the sim ride is in the three months after your MCC), it will not help you in the longer term. As professionals with safety being at the core of every decision you make I would suggest that you take the longer-term view and do yourselves and your passengers a favour.
You've got the licence and you have already proved what you are capable of, nothing is more of a true test of skill than the UK IR. You will ALL get that elusive job in the end. Take the opportunity to get the very most out of what will be one of the few extensive MCC/CRM courses you will ever do in your career. Human factors is the biggest threat to aviation, spend some time learning skills and techniques that you can fall back on when the need arises.
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Be careful about recording the sim time for an MCC in your logbook. Afterall if you go and do it on a 737 or medium jet and then turn up for a sim ride the expectations of the trainers might be somewhat higher than what they might have been if you had not thrust it to their attention that you were fresh off a 20 hour MCC in a 737 doing hand flown NDB approaches etc...
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Ryanair MCC
Just read that Ryanair is now offering an MCC course. Is it a worthwhile course to take with them (qualtity of training versus price)? Has anyone followed Ryanair's MCC course? Any information would be greatly appreciated as I need to complete my MCC ASAP.
Thanks!
Thanks!
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MCC in A320 simulator
Hello guys.
Anyone who has done in Europe the MCC course in A320 simulator?
What are the prices in schools around europe?
Eventhough it is not supposed to be a type rating do you think it is better to do MCC in a simulator like this or in a simple FNTP sim?
Thank you in advance for your opinions.
Anyone who has done in Europe the MCC course in A320 simulator?
What are the prices in schools around europe?
Eventhough it is not supposed to be a type rating do you think it is better to do MCC in a simulator like this or in a simple FNTP sim?
Thank you in advance for your opinions.
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Hi
having done the MCC i'll give a brief description of the process.
For OAT students we do Groundschool for it on thurs & fri. I not 100% but i think some of the external students may have to come in for a few days before that for CRM training etc.
On thurs your given a large folder containing all the notes you will need for completion of the MCC. The day mainly consists of getting used to the layout, learning the checks and the standard calls.
Friday is pretty much the same as regards learning checks etc with your flight partner. Also you will learn here about perfromance and cover some other aspects.
You then usually have the weekend to assimilate all the info and the checks.
MCC1-5 then run usually mon-fri although this can be tues-sat if maintenance is due on the monday.
The typical day lasts for around 7-8hrs.
An example would be - 1st sim session booked for 8am. Therefore turn up at 7am for briefing etc. 8-10am is the sim session following a flight profile shown in the manual. Typically manual handling and ILS for MCC1 followed by the integration of automatics then routes as you progress each day.
At 10am you leave the sim and are de-briefed. This may take between 30mins-1hr. 2hrs after the first sim your in for the second 2hr slot - This will be 12pm midday in this example. The same profile is flown but with role reversal. If you were pilot flying (PF) for the 1st sim session you will be Pilot non flying (PNF) for the second session and learn that role.
The sim will then finish at 2pm and another debrief will follow again maybe about 30mins. Your day therefore starts at 7am finishing at 2.30pm ish.
You then can write out your performance cards for the next day then go home and brush up on what you have done, struggled on and need to know for the next sim session.
Hope this helps
adj
having done the MCC i'll give a brief description of the process.
For OAT students we do Groundschool for it on thurs & fri. I not 100% but i think some of the external students may have to come in for a few days before that for CRM training etc.
On thurs your given a large folder containing all the notes you will need for completion of the MCC. The day mainly consists of getting used to the layout, learning the checks and the standard calls.
Friday is pretty much the same as regards learning checks etc with your flight partner. Also you will learn here about perfromance and cover some other aspects.
You then usually have the weekend to assimilate all the info and the checks.
MCC1-5 then run usually mon-fri although this can be tues-sat if maintenance is due on the monday.
The typical day lasts for around 7-8hrs.
An example would be - 1st sim session booked for 8am. Therefore turn up at 7am for briefing etc. 8-10am is the sim session following a flight profile shown in the manual. Typically manual handling and ILS for MCC1 followed by the integration of automatics then routes as you progress each day.
At 10am you leave the sim and are de-briefed. This may take between 30mins-1hr. 2hrs after the first sim your in for the second 2hr slot - This will be 12pm midday in this example. The same profile is flown but with role reversal. If you were pilot flying (PF) for the 1st sim session you will be Pilot non flying (PNF) for the second session and learn that role.
The sim will then finish at 2pm and another debrief will follow again maybe about 30mins. Your day therefore starts at 7am finishing at 2.30pm ish.
You then can write out your performance cards for the next day then go home and brush up on what you have done, struggled on and need to know for the next sim session.
Hope this helps
adj
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Is the oxford MCC recommended by anyone? Are the sim good, I have heard they are a bit slow or something along those lines. Also does anybody recommend doing the JOC with an MCC, does this help alot for sim checks etc? Any info much appreciated.
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A few easyjet pilots have been in the sim when i was there and their comments were pretty positive. They said the sim was much the same and handled the same as the real a/c they fly. The only slight difference they felt was the flight controls being slightly heavier.
Obv being a former OAT student i would recommend the MCC. After coming out with 40hrs MCC/JOC then going onto do a sim check a few weeks later on a 747-400 sim, i felt well prepared with what i needed to do after and thought the Jet course was invaluable to my efforts in acheiveing employment.
For me this was the best and most enjoyable part of my whole experience.
adj
Obv being a former OAT student i would recommend the MCC. After coming out with 40hrs MCC/JOC then going onto do a sim check a few weeks later on a 747-400 sim, i felt well prepared with what i needed to do after and thought the Jet course was invaluable to my efforts in acheiveing employment.
For me this was the best and most enjoyable part of my whole experience.
adj
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Mcc - Eac
This is my first post on PPRUNE, I usually sit on the sidelines reading all of your posts.
However having just completed my MCC at European Aviation Charter in Bournemouth I was so pleased with the course I had to put pen to paper, so to speak.
The course is over 8 days, 3 days ground school and 5 days in the Tristar L1011 simulator.
The ground school is very laid back without loosing its structure and value.
The 3rd day of ground school is type specific on the Tristar, this is the only day spent on learning the specifics of the Tristar as this is an MCC course not a type rating a fact that a lot of people loose site of when choosing a school with maybe a 737 or A320 sim, having said that EAC have just taken deliver of a 737-200 sim which should be online very soon.
The focus is getting you to work together as a team in the flight deck whilst operating a jet aircraft which is not as easy as it sounds not forgetting you have spent the last 250 hours plus as single pilot operations.
Most of the flying is carried out on autopilot as they are not trying to test your flying skills, you have already proved them when you did your CPL/IR, but to get you and the person next to you working together to keep ahead of this aircraft, which believe me is literally twice as quick as anything you may have flown before.
The five days in the sim are by far the best flying I have done to date. In the minimum 20 hours they cover everything from basic radar vector circuits to emergency drills, fire drills culminating on the final day in a route with SIDs STARs etc.
Tony and Dave the two instructors are very experienced airline pilots with thousands of hours between them. With all their knowledge and experience they have seen all the scenarios you can expect to come across in an airline sim check and although not part of the MCC syllabus will run you through them time permitting of course.
Which leads me onto another big plus, as EAC own all the simulators if the sim isn’t booked once you have finished your lessons for the day we where able to stay in the sim to practice circuits etc until the engineers went home.
It doesn’t all end after the MCC when you get that first interview they will give you a free hour in the sim before your interview.
A most enjoyable and productive course all for a very reasonable £2399.
Should anybody wish to contact me for any further feedback please do not hesitate to contact me.
And no I do not work for the company.
However having just completed my MCC at European Aviation Charter in Bournemouth I was so pleased with the course I had to put pen to paper, so to speak.
The course is over 8 days, 3 days ground school and 5 days in the Tristar L1011 simulator.
The ground school is very laid back without loosing its structure and value.
The 3rd day of ground school is type specific on the Tristar, this is the only day spent on learning the specifics of the Tristar as this is an MCC course not a type rating a fact that a lot of people loose site of when choosing a school with maybe a 737 or A320 sim, having said that EAC have just taken deliver of a 737-200 sim which should be online very soon.
The focus is getting you to work together as a team in the flight deck whilst operating a jet aircraft which is not as easy as it sounds not forgetting you have spent the last 250 hours plus as single pilot operations.
Most of the flying is carried out on autopilot as they are not trying to test your flying skills, you have already proved them when you did your CPL/IR, but to get you and the person next to you working together to keep ahead of this aircraft, which believe me is literally twice as quick as anything you may have flown before.
The five days in the sim are by far the best flying I have done to date. In the minimum 20 hours they cover everything from basic radar vector circuits to emergency drills, fire drills culminating on the final day in a route with SIDs STARs etc.
Tony and Dave the two instructors are very experienced airline pilots with thousands of hours between them. With all their knowledge and experience they have seen all the scenarios you can expect to come across in an airline sim check and although not part of the MCC syllabus will run you through them time permitting of course.
Which leads me onto another big plus, as EAC own all the simulators if the sim isn’t booked once you have finished your lessons for the day we where able to stay in the sim to practice circuits etc until the engineers went home.
It doesn’t all end after the MCC when you get that first interview they will give you a free hour in the sim before your interview.
A most enjoyable and productive course all for a very reasonable £2399.
Should anybody wish to contact me for any further feedback please do not hesitate to contact me.
And no I do not work for the company.
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Jetlinx MCC
Having just completed the MCC with Jetlinx, I'd like to report back to PPruNe that the course was absolutely top notch. I'd have no hesitation on recommending the course.
I know the objective of the MCC is to learn about the multi-crew cockpit environment, but to be able to do that in a full motion B757 at BA Cranebank really made the whole experience a lot more enjoyable. I know the cost is a tad more than other courses, but IMO it was worth every penny.
3 of the instructors that taught us were all ex-RAF with a vast amount of experience in both military and civilian flying and I felt they pushed us above and beyond the MCC syllabus.
If anyone is considering training with Jetlinx, give me a pm with any questions you might have and I'll try my best to give honest and accurate answers.
I know the objective of the MCC is to learn about the multi-crew cockpit environment, but to be able to do that in a full motion B757 at BA Cranebank really made the whole experience a lot more enjoyable. I know the cost is a tad more than other courses, but IMO it was worth every penny.
3 of the instructors that taught us were all ex-RAF with a vast amount of experience in both military and civilian flying and I felt they pushed us above and beyond the MCC syllabus.
If anyone is considering training with Jetlinx, give me a pm with any questions you might have and I'll try my best to give honest and accurate answers.
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Mcc At European
Hey all you people looking to do an MCC, I have just completed mine and would recomend it to anyone. I did it in Bournemouth at european, it was great, not only did we learn alot about multi crew but also learnt alot about jet flying. Despite the fact that you have to do the 3 days ground school, it's worth the wait as the 5 days in the 6 axis full motion TriStar Sim is the best flying experiance I've had in all my training. So for all of you whao are looking to do a MCC go do it at bournemouth.... You will really enjoy it, I did. I think their web adress is www.euroav.com, their price is really cheap as well. Ask to speak to Tony or Mandy.... Tony is great, reall good laugh and great way of giving instruction. Hope this helps you guys who are looking for a place to do a MCC. Good luck!!!!
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Don't shoot yourselves in the foot guys. There are a lot of MCC courses that can get you a foot in the door to an airline and are run by current training captains. I was told that my course is running at something like 90% of guys getting jobs. It cost me a lot more but is well worth it as I started my type rating 2 weeks ago.