Multi Crew Co-operation Course (MCC)
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: UK
Posts: 97
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
MCC Providers
Firstly, apologies to the Mods as I know the MCC topic has been done many many times but I've tried the search engine in both basic and advanced format and amazingly it keeps coming back with no trace of 'MCC' or the companies below!
I've narrowed (I think) the choice of MCC provider down to 3: Jetlinx, Multiflight and European Aviation. My ideal requirements would be a MCC no longer than 8 days, back to back, full motion, glass cockpit sim. None of the above quite meet all those requirements and there is a wide range of costs from GBP2400 - 3550. So, does anyone have first hand experience of any of these companies and would you recommend them?
Finally, anyone looking for a MCC partner in early May 07?
I've narrowed (I think) the choice of MCC provider down to 3: Jetlinx, Multiflight and European Aviation. My ideal requirements would be a MCC no longer than 8 days, back to back, full motion, glass cockpit sim. None of the above quite meet all those requirements and there is a wide range of costs from GBP2400 - 3550. So, does anyone have first hand experience of any of these companies and would you recommend them?
Finally, anyone looking for a MCC partner in early May 07?
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: Midlands
Posts: 178
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Jetlinx
Hi Rob's Dad,
I did the Jetlinx course in June last year on the B757-200 at Cranebank. Overall I would say it was well run and organised, the instructors were experienced, 3 were from BA and the other 2 flew for Monarch.
I did the ground school over a weekend in Gloucester and then went into the sim the following week for 5 evenings.
It was relaxed and pretty informal, to be honest the MCC is a tick in the box and you will get out of it what you put into it. On the ground school they give you a manual, if you go through that and learn the procedures and where all the buttons are, it will save time in the sim and allow more time to fly rather than the instrutor explaining where things are.
My only slight gripe was that they were quite into automation so you actually got quite limited experience of hand flying bar take off and the last 3-4 miles on the ILS. It is a very different beast when you turn the Auto Throttle / Flight directors off as you will if you go for a sim assessment for a job. There is however a session at the end after the last flight if time permits where you maybe get 45mins to practice hand flying, but I would have enjoyed more of this personally. For example Parc aviation in Dublin dont touch the autopilot on their course, it is all raw data by hand, which is good practice when it comes to getting a job.
To sum up, I would recommend Jetlinx, it was hugely enjoyable flying in the 757 for a week. However be aware doing it on a jet is not going to help you get a job over doing it on an ATR or a King Air etc...So if you are short of cash save the £1,000 and use that for sim preparation when you get that 1st interview.
Hope that helps
Dan98
I did the Jetlinx course in June last year on the B757-200 at Cranebank. Overall I would say it was well run and organised, the instructors were experienced, 3 were from BA and the other 2 flew for Monarch.
I did the ground school over a weekend in Gloucester and then went into the sim the following week for 5 evenings.
It was relaxed and pretty informal, to be honest the MCC is a tick in the box and you will get out of it what you put into it. On the ground school they give you a manual, if you go through that and learn the procedures and where all the buttons are, it will save time in the sim and allow more time to fly rather than the instrutor explaining where things are.
My only slight gripe was that they were quite into automation so you actually got quite limited experience of hand flying bar take off and the last 3-4 miles on the ILS. It is a very different beast when you turn the Auto Throttle / Flight directors off as you will if you go for a sim assessment for a job. There is however a session at the end after the last flight if time permits where you maybe get 45mins to practice hand flying, but I would have enjoyed more of this personally. For example Parc aviation in Dublin dont touch the autopilot on their course, it is all raw data by hand, which is good practice when it comes to getting a job.
To sum up, I would recommend Jetlinx, it was hugely enjoyable flying in the 757 for a week. However be aware doing it on a jet is not going to help you get a job over doing it on an ATR or a King Air etc...So if you are short of cash save the £1,000 and use that for sim preparation when you get that 1st interview.
Hope that helps
Dan98
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: shoreham
Age: 36
Posts: 7
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Which school would be the best for the mcc course as I know of one in the north where I am actually working that have a 737 but i feel that i may go back down south to maybe cranebank as I prefer the A320 or the 757 for the MCC. Maybe I am being fussy i'm not sure as the quality can vary with each school.
Logic tells me that when raw data hand flying and OEI in a jet sim, the point of the MCC is more pertinant than ever.
The object of the MCC course is to teach, in a benign environment, the non-technical skills relating to being a part of a multi-pilot crew. The application of those skills in more exacting scenarios (such as raw data, hand flying and OEI) is a matter for later training, such as the MPA type rating, CRM course and line training. To confuse the MCC course with later training is to completely misunderstand the whole concept.
It may give one a pleasantly warm feeling to hand fly a jet aeroplane simulator during the MCC course but then so does pissing ones pants, which is about as relevant in the great scheme of things!
Incidentally, I am intrigued to know how cross-wind knows that European Aviation runs such a good MCC course, since the course in question does not yet have JAA approval, and no course has yet been run. Nobody can have experienced the course and so this looks like a cynical piece of cheap (actually free) marketing on the part of EAAC. Naughty!!
Guest
Posts: n/a
cross-wind,
This looks like the one: http://www.eaac.co.uk/flight_training/mcc_courses.jsp
This looks like the one: http://www.eaac.co.uk/flight_training/mcc_courses.jsp
Join Date: May 2005
Location: Stuttgart
Age: 55
Posts: 20
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
MCC Course - How to prepare (using books & open sources)
Hello,
how can one prepare for a MCC Course (preferably using books or sources available on the internet). Since my training starts in april, my training provider has not yet sent any material, though I have some time available and would like to read/learn a bit in advance. I still possess some Human Perf. knowledge from the ATPL sylabus.
Thanks in advancve for your answers.
Cole
how can one prepare for a MCC Course (preferably using books or sources available on the internet). Since my training starts in april, my training provider has not yet sent any material, though I have some time available and would like to read/learn a bit in advance. I still possess some Human Perf. knowledge from the ATPL sylabus.
Thanks in advancve for your answers.
Cole
Last edited by ColeTrickle; 16th Jan 2007 at 10:34.
Join Date: May 2003
Location: warwickshire
Age: 43
Posts: 38
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I really wouldn't be too bothered. Maybe if you can have a look at some of the profiles or the sim layout (depends on type) you may get more from the sim sessions. Otherwise just relax! Its an interesting course not an ATPL subject lesson, and most of all it is NOT a type rating. Just enjoy it after all the hard work that you have put in to date.
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: Hunched over a keyboard
Posts: 1,193
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
A look around the net for information on:
Personality types,
the Myers-Briggs Type Indicator test (MBTI),
decision making,
situational awareness,
conflict resolution
should give you a bit of a stater.
However, all the above should be covered on the course (we do).
On the more practical side, if you can find info on the SOPs used by people like MyTravel, First Choice, Easyjet etc that may help you as well.
Google would be a good start.
Personality types,
the Myers-Briggs Type Indicator test (MBTI),
decision making,
situational awareness,
conflict resolution
should give you a bit of a stater.
However, all the above should be covered on the course (we do).
On the more practical side, if you can find info on the SOPs used by people like MyTravel, First Choice, Easyjet etc that may help you as well.
Google would be a good start.
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Europe
Posts: 39
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
www.bfsaa.se
Their MCC is in a F28 jet FFS and it IS AN ACTUAL Ryanair assessment (no need to fumble in the darkness with the 737-200). I did it myself before it was turned into a Ryanair course (and it was the best part of my training so far) but the content is basically still the same.
Their MCC is in a F28 jet FFS and it IS AN ACTUAL Ryanair assessment (no need to fumble in the darkness with the 737-200). I did it myself before it was turned into a Ryanair course (and it was the best part of my training so far) but the content is basically still the same.
Join Date: Nov 2003
Location: Location Location
Age: 48
Posts: 62
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
King Air vs B737 MCC?????
Scroggs,
I've been through the pp search engine and i'm reasonably sure i'm not about to open a debate that's already well trodden... unless I've missed something?
Low hrs pilot, about to finish modular fATPL course, looking for an MCC that will appeal to a prospective 1st employer.
Two main options:
1. FNPTII King Air sim. £2300
2. B737 sim. £2900
My questions are - will an employer care about/notice the type of sim my MCC training was carried out on and will experience in a jet sim operating in a 2 pilot environment (for example) be of much benefit for sim assessments?
All constructive inputs welcomed, esp from the chaps/chapesses that actually read the CVs!
Cheers
r2unit
I've been through the pp search engine and i'm reasonably sure i'm not about to open a debate that's already well trodden... unless I've missed something?
Low hrs pilot, about to finish modular fATPL course, looking for an MCC that will appeal to a prospective 1st employer.
Two main options:
1. FNPTII King Air sim. £2300
2. B737 sim. £2900
My questions are - will an employer care about/notice the type of sim my MCC training was carried out on and will experience in a jet sim operating in a 2 pilot environment (for example) be of much benefit for sim assessments?
All constructive inputs welcomed, esp from the chaps/chapesses that actually read the CVs!
Cheers
r2unit
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: UK
Posts: 1,164
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Im in the same boat as you mate, been looking at MCC courses but at a bit of a loss what to do. Im hoping to book something for end of next month but unsure whether to do the king air(cheap) or 73(expensive) option. I was thinking perhaps multiflight or aft, mainly due to cost but a jet sim also tempts me(unfortunately!). Anyone any suggestions?? Are airlines really bothered or is it just a tick in the box for them??
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: france
Posts: 304
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
One day i have seen an application form where it was asked "where did you do your MCC ?" but for the CPL/IR they do not care. They just asked what is the country of the licence issue. Not school.
So if I were you I should do the MCC on Full flight 737 or other jet.
it can help you for any selection for example.
and the price's difference between mcc king air or 737 is not important.
We do the CPL/IR on propellers aricrafts... so why don't train on jet afer all ?
737 is heavier than king air, don't forget if you can the plus you can the less...
So if I were you I should do the MCC on Full flight 737 or other jet.
it can help you for any selection for example.
and the price's difference between mcc king air or 737 is not important.
We do the CPL/IR on propellers aricrafts... so why don't train on jet afer all ?
737 is heavier than king air, don't forget if you can the plus you can the less...
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: UK
Posts: 1,164
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Perhaps a daft question here and as a slight aside, can the MCC sim hours be counted towards my total flying time?? I see the course is 20 hours sim time, is that total to you or split between you and sim partner??
Join Date: Nov 2003
Location: Location Location
Age: 48
Posts: 62
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
MIKECR,
Sounds like we're in similar situations mate. The 2 prices i quoted were for Multiflight and Oxford and both include VAT. The difference is £600 which (whilst it would certainly buy A LOT of Mars Bars) is not a tremendous amount in comparison to what we've both spent so far - i'm thinking Oxford might be the way forward...?
r2unit
Sounds like we're in similar situations mate. The 2 prices i quoted were for Multiflight and Oxford and both include VAT. The difference is £600 which (whilst it would certainly buy A LOT of Mars Bars) is not a tremendous amount in comparison to what we've both spent so far - i'm thinking Oxford might be the way forward...?
r2unit