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Training in Spain

Old 4th Sep 2007, 23:26
  #341 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: Hunched over a keyboard
Posts: 1,190
Bertie Bassett - I could perhaps have phrased that better! Sorry! Let me try again.

The Spanish IR is NOT well regarded within the UK industry, either by employers, FTOs or the CAA. In general, the standard of training falls well short of that expected at/by a UK FTO and the CAA. That is the reason that FTE remains under UK stewardship with UK examiners - moving over to the Spanish DGAC would be perceived as a retrograde step and a lowering of standards. They would lose customers if they did take such a step as their UK approval is one pf their major selling points.

It IS fair to say that all of the Spanish trained people we have had through here for renewals have found it hard work due to not having a solid enough grounding in basic principles and procedures. Please note that I'm not including you in this as you did not do your IR renewal with us! However, I must reiterate in the interests of honesty that the Spanish trained IR renewal customers who've come to us have found it demanding and have needed remedial work.

This is not a reflection upon the quality of the pilot but a reflection upon the quality of the FTO and examination system that sold them short in the first place. The students attitude and application is very important - flying training is one of those "you get out what you put in" processes, but the FTO does matter and it matters greatly (in my opinion).

Last edited by moggiee; 4th Sep 2007 at 23:56.
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Old 5th Sep 2007, 04:25
  #342 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: California
Posts: 70
Thanks for your sharing your opinion.
It's quite the same my uncle (ex-pilot) has told me:

A pilot training program is dependent on the quality of the ground and flight instruction the student receives.

He added that the beginning student pilot will, most probably, attempt to imitate their flight instructor during training.


So i am fully aware of all that.
Spain is not a must for me, i might choose portugal, sweden or even switzerland.

It all depends on the impressions and contacts i will make during my european visits starting next week.


BeautifulClouds
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Old 5th Sep 2007, 08:43
  #343 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Oct 2004
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Originally Posted by BClouds View Post
It all depends on the impressions and contacts i will make during my european visits starting next week.
BeautifulClouds
That's the way to do it - don't be too impressed by websites and brochures but go there, speak to students and try to get a real feel for the place.

My brother walked out on a visit to a well known UK FTO which has a good reputation and very polished brochures, websites, literature etc. after seeing the way that they treated their modular students. The atmosphere and the opinions of students count for a lot.

Remember, the school needs YOU more than you need THEM - without your money they go out of business.
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Old 5th Sep 2007, 18:17
  #344 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: California
Posts: 70
Hello again!

So I have a quick question about aeromadrid:

Which airlines are aeromadrid with?
In other words, at the end of the ATPL course, where will we be able to apply via Aeromadrid?

Good day
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Old 6th Sep 2007, 15:23
  #345 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: May 2006
Location: 3 NM on final!
Posts: 225
So I have a quick question about aeromadrid:

Which airlines are aeromadrid with?
In other words, at the end of the ATPL course, where will we be able to apply via Aeromadrid
Aeromadrid does not have any agreement with any airline. They used to have one with Swiftair in the past... but not any longer.

I would suggest you to stay away from AEM by the moment. They are suffering a huge crisis. They have over 30 aircrafts and more than 90% of them are U/S. I don't think AEM will stay alive for a long time... so be careful about your decision.
DC-8 is offline  
Old 6th Sep 2007, 15:28
  #346 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: California
Posts: 70
Thank you, adios aeromadrid
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Old 7th Sep 2007, 00:27
  #347 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Oct 2002
Location: In my seat
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Moggiee,

Sorry my man, but I do NOT agree with you.
I studied at Airmed in 2001/2002. all my classmates of my promotion got a job within the year flying jets, and this without any retraining. Moreover, I sometimes am surprised how basic the knowledge of some newly graduated Oxford/Cabair/etc. students is, even not knowing how to calculate a direct routing, not being able to force direct or teardrop entries, not being able to tell 2 different ways how to make sure the DME-arc is accurately flown,... never practiced REAL engine failures during twin-training ( I mean stopped engine, not just retarding).
The UK is full of "procedures", but tell you what, that DOES NOT make you a good pilot.

I am fed up by some British, thinking that the UK is the Mecca of Aviation. It is far from it. Your levels are way below what is standard in for example Belgium. (yes, I am Belgian).
I flew in my previous airline with mostly ex. BA/BMI etc. guys. Guess what, they were afraid the moment you dare to mention raw-data. NEVER did I see them putting off the flight-director. And that is NOT "the way it should be done". not at all.
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Old 7th Sep 2007, 13:15
  #348 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Oct 2004
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A couple of points (OK, 5!):

One - we can all have our opinions. Mine is based on seeing pilots who hold an IR and have trained in the UK, Spain, Denmark, USA, Australia, New Zealand, Turkey, Cyprus, France, Malta, Iceland, the RAF, Belgium etc. etc. etc.

Two - most people believe that they trained at a great school - because most people only have experience of being an IR student at one school so have no comparative frame of reference.

Three - BA pilots are not scared of raw data flying - they do plenty of it. The Ops Manual even suggests that they practice doing such a thing in order to keep skills levels up.

Four - there are good pilots and bad pilots from all over the place. Some will remember what they were taught during their IR and some will not. For the record, one of the worst I've ever had to work with was a Belgian - but that is a reflection upon him and his attitude more than anything else!

Five - well, I would make point five but it's not polite to quote an IR renewal customer without his permission and it would only upset those who think they got good a high standard of training when doing an IR in Spain.
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Old 8th Sep 2007, 15:45
  #349 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: at home
Age: 39
Posts: 8
aero fan madrid

does any one have any views about doing a cpl ir at aerofan madrid,views would be well appreciated from past or present students.
emerald wings is offline  
Old 8th Sep 2007, 23:44
  #350 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: Spain/UK
Posts: 126
Aerofan

I did IR conversion there. You'll get in done on time and in budget.

Friendly, helpful staff and they geniunely want to see you pass in minimum time.

However, the standard of training is not as high as some northern european countries. So if you're doing an IR for the first time don't be surprise if you'll require some retraining on a future check ride. The examiner will mark you to JAR standard, but I know that some of the things you might get away with you wouldn't in the UK, for example.

My advice would be to go and visit and decide for yourself.
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Old 13th Sep 2007, 20:28
  #351 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: at home
Age: 39
Posts: 8
Smile

Thanks a lot light heart iam still trying to figure out if its worth my while doing the multi ir for the first time in spain.
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Old 18th Sep 2007, 20:13
  #352 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: sweden
Posts: 26
Integrated

Whats the price for the Integrated or ATPL course ...
Fabbe_Far is offline  
Old 25th Oct 2007, 20:53
  #353 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jun 2003
Location: SPAIN
Posts: 46
Quote from Lightheart

"You have to do the CPL test in country of issue. So if you want a UK CAA CPL then you did to do it in UK."

Wrong. How do FTE cope then?????

Yes why don't you read lasors Lightheart.
unowho is offline  
Old 25th Oct 2007, 21:50
  #354 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: Spain/UK
Posts: 126
FTE

For the benefit of our FTE instructor...

My quote is still generally correct. If you have done your exams in the UK you have to do the CPL skills test in the UK. However, there are some FTOs based outside the UK like FTE and Cabair (in US) where you can do skills test. This is because they are CAA approved to do so (more the exception rather than the norm).

But generally speaking you CANNOT go to a non-CAA approved school and do a CPL skills test to receive a UK issued licence when you have completed the exams in the UK. Some states like Greece accept the UK exams but Spain does NOT. If it were possible I would have done so.
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Old 25th Oct 2007, 21:53
  #355 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: Spain/UK
Posts: 126
Greece...

...I want to clarify. You cannot do the ATPL writtens in the UK, then go to Greece do a CPL skills test and get a CAA issued licence. You will get a greek licence which you will then have to apply to the CAA to convert to the UK one.
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Old 25th Oct 2007, 23:05
  #356 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: england
Age: 41
Posts: 39
and whats the problem with that?

its a matter of paperwork and a token fee.
davidathomas42 is offline  
Old 26th Oct 2007, 07:47
  #357 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Mar 2003
Location: UK
Posts: 438
What's wrong with it is that if you have written your ATPL exams in the UK, you are required (with the couple of exceptions) to do your CPL skills test in the UK, as Lightheart stated. No point b**gering off to Greece because you will not be able to get the licence...period.
Finals19 is offline  
Old 26th Oct 2007, 17:40
  #358 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: england
Age: 41
Posts: 39
you are full of it! I did mine in greece and my exams in england as did a few of my aviation friends, no hasssle, just paperwork! what the hell are you talking about numpty, stop giving wrong advice.
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