Education: What A Levels and Degree (if any)?!(Apr '09)
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How advisable is a degree?
Hi,
Im a college wannabe doing A-Levels and also PPL at the weekends.
At the moment I am doing AS Physics, Electronics, Geogrophy and English Literature. Like a lot of people here, I have been a very keen wannabe since a very young age.
Being in a very fortunate position where my dad would possibly finance my training, I am planning to do my ATPLs streight after I finish my A2's, which gives full A-Levels (2004). After I get my commercial pilot license (2006) I plan to get a flying job but if this is not possible (perheps bush is plannig more wars) I intend to go back home and fly regionally, turboprops/small jets to build some valuable experience.
About the degree issue: having spoken to a senior teacher at college, I have fallen in a bit of concern if I will be taking the right decision not taking a degree. She said she knows a friend who is also a pilot and working for an airline, he recently went back to uni to get himself a degree. She didnt give any specific reason.
Having a degree is oboviously very useful, but I just cant wait that long
what do you think?
this is why i am asking for your advise.
I would be greatful for your replies.
P16
Im a college wannabe doing A-Levels and also PPL at the weekends.
At the moment I am doing AS Physics, Electronics, Geogrophy and English Literature. Like a lot of people here, I have been a very keen wannabe since a very young age.
Being in a very fortunate position where my dad would possibly finance my training, I am planning to do my ATPLs streight after I finish my A2's, which gives full A-Levels (2004). After I get my commercial pilot license (2006) I plan to get a flying job but if this is not possible (perheps bush is plannig more wars) I intend to go back home and fly regionally, turboprops/small jets to build some valuable experience.
About the degree issue: having spoken to a senior teacher at college, I have fallen in a bit of concern if I will be taking the right decision not taking a degree. She said she knows a friend who is also a pilot and working for an airline, he recently went back to uni to get himself a degree. She didnt give any specific reason.
Having a degree is oboviously very useful, but I just cant wait that long
what do you think?this is why i am asking for your advise.
I would be greatful for your replies.
P16
Last edited by Pilot16; 8th Jan 2003 at 20:20.
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Hey, how's it goin?
I'm over here in Toronto, Canada and I'm in your situation. I can't decide if I should pursue a degree or not? I'm getting mixed opinions from many different pilots. I'm so confused!!
I'm over here in Toronto, Canada and I'm in your situation. I can't decide if I should pursue a degree or not? I'm getting mixed opinions from many different pilots. I'm so confused!!
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To Degree or not To Degree
It's a tuff question. Both approaches do have their pro and cons.
Then again you have got to look at your own situation:
Where do you what to go?
How far do you want to go?
Have you got the cash to pay for Uni aswell?
European airlines will not turn their noses up when you lack a degree. They are more interested in if you can handle the position of manager, Oh and can you fly the silver thing!!
From what I have heard from flight schools, it is not always the Uni grads at the top of the class.
Degrees are great for when the sh$t hits the fan. But then again, you want to be a pilot, so CONCENTRATE ON IT.
You can always go later!!!
Good Luck
Then again you have got to look at your own situation:
Where do you what to go?
How far do you want to go?
Have you got the cash to pay for Uni aswell?
European airlines will not turn their noses up when you lack a degree. They are more interested in if you can handle the position of manager, Oh and can you fly the silver thing!!
From what I have heard from flight schools, it is not always the Uni grads at the top of the class.
Degrees are great for when the sh$t hits the fan. But then again, you want to be a pilot, so CONCENTRATE ON IT.
You can always go later!!!
Good Luck
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Post in wannabes if you want the lowdown, and take a look at the past queries along a similar vein in 'search'.
It all depends what you are capable of as a person - if you can get a good degree from a good university, then go for it (subject to cost etc).
If you go to a poor university, you are only wasting your time.
Take a look at www.dur.ac.uk/nuas for all about UASs - a good thing to have a look at while at uni, and especially if you want to fly in the RAF, and hence get free training.
Major plus is that a backup career can be pursued if you lose your licence medically, there are few jobs in flying (as at the moment for newly qualified pilots), or you can fund your own training better, especially if you end up earning loads post-uni (and if there are jobs in city areas etc!)
It all depends what you are capable of as a person - if you can get a good degree from a good university, then go for it (subject to cost etc).
If you go to a poor university, you are only wasting your time.
Take a look at www.dur.ac.uk/nuas for all about UASs - a good thing to have a look at while at uni, and especially if you want to fly in the RAF, and hence get free training.
Major plus is that a backup career can be pursued if you lose your licence medically, there are few jobs in flying (as at the moment for newly qualified pilots), or you can fund your own training better, especially if you end up earning loads post-uni (and if there are jobs in city areas etc!)
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Advisable degree?
(posted this on the Quesitons forum but didnt get a good response)
How advisable is a degree?
Hi,
Im a college wannabe doing A-Levels and also PPL at the weekends.
At the moment I am doing AS Physics, Electronics, Geogrophy and English Literature. Like a lot of people here, I have been a very keen wannabe since a very young age.
Being in a very fortunate position where my dad would possibly finance my training, I am planning to do my ATPLs streight after I finish my A2's, which gives full A-Levels (2004). After I get my commercial pilot license (2006) I plan to get a flying job but if this is not possible (perheps bush is plannig more wars) I intend to go back home and fly regionally, turboprops/small jets to build some valuable experience.
About the degree issue: having spoken to a senior teacher at college, I have fallen in a bit of concern if I will be taking the right decision not taking a degree. She said she knows a friend who is also a pilot and working for an airline, he recently went back to uni to get himself a degree. She didnt give any specific reason why.
Having a degree is oboviously very useful, but I just cant wait that long what do you think? is it really worth the time? money? If yes, what is the most advisable one? aeronautical degree? Air Transport Operations (by City Uni: combines ATPL with degree[lot of money though])?
this is why i am asking for your advise.
I would be greatful for your replies.
PS. I know this one comes up a lot,
appologies for it again :-/
P16
How advisable is a degree?
Hi,
Im a college wannabe doing A-Levels and also PPL at the weekends.
At the moment I am doing AS Physics, Electronics, Geogrophy and English Literature. Like a lot of people here, I have been a very keen wannabe since a very young age.
Being in a very fortunate position where my dad would possibly finance my training, I am planning to do my ATPLs streight after I finish my A2's, which gives full A-Levels (2004). After I get my commercial pilot license (2006) I plan to get a flying job but if this is not possible (perheps bush is plannig more wars) I intend to go back home and fly regionally, turboprops/small jets to build some valuable experience.
About the degree issue: having spoken to a senior teacher at college, I have fallen in a bit of concern if I will be taking the right decision not taking a degree. She said she knows a friend who is also a pilot and working for an airline, he recently went back to uni to get himself a degree. She didnt give any specific reason why.
Having a degree is oboviously very useful, but I just cant wait that long what do you think? is it really worth the time? money? If yes, what is the most advisable one? aeronautical degree? Air Transport Operations (by City Uni: combines ATPL with degree[lot of money though])?
this is why i am asking for your advise.
I would be greatful for your replies.
PS. I know this one comes up a lot,
appologies for it again :-/
P16
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First, my position: Have a good degree and a 'normal' job, realised at the age of 26 that I wanted to fly. Bit of a late vocation.
Two years ago, if I knew what I know now, I'd have said age is on your side, focus on getting airline sponsorship & get yourself ATPL'ed as soon as possible.
Right now, alas, the job market's depressed. If I were in your position, I'd look at wethering the storm. AeroEng isn't an easy degree but it would put you in strong position for ATPL theory. I'd suggest you go for the degree. Hopefully by the time you don the gown, things will be rosier and there'll be more opportunities to build a flying career - with much less risk. You'll be in your early twenties, pretty marketable, and with something to fall back on if things don't take off - pun intended.
I'm now 29 and will start ATPL Distance Learning pretty soon, after which I'll pack in the dayjob to take things further. I'd prefer to wait a couple of years but age is starting to count against me. Aww, cue the violins - and pass my zimmer!!
Two years ago, if I knew what I know now, I'd have said age is on your side, focus on getting airline sponsorship & get yourself ATPL'ed as soon as possible.
Right now, alas, the job market's depressed. If I were in your position, I'd look at wethering the storm. AeroEng isn't an easy degree but it would put you in strong position for ATPL theory. I'd suggest you go for the degree. Hopefully by the time you don the gown, things will be rosier and there'll be more opportunities to build a flying career - with much less risk. You'll be in your early twenties, pretty marketable, and with something to fall back on if things don't take off - pun intended.
I'm now 29 and will start ATPL Distance Learning pretty soon, after which I'll pack in the dayjob to take things further. I'd prefer to wait a couple of years but age is starting to count against me. Aww, cue the violins - and pass my zimmer!!
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As you say, this question comes up a hell of a lot. It's a simple matter to do a search on Wannabes, so I strongly advise you to spend an afternoon looking at what has been said before. The advice hasn't changed.
However, just to put you on the right lines, do not attempt an Aeronautical Engineering degree because someone tells you it'll help your ATPL theory! That, in a word, is crap. Oh, sure, you'll cruise the tech and PoF theory - if you've completed the degree, but this is the worst possible reason for choosing this subject. It's a bit like doing a degree in Shakespear because you've got an English GCSE coming up!
If you have no intention of being an aeronautical engineer, and the idea of doing this subject at universtity for three or four years isn't your abiding wish, then be sensible: do whatever degree most interests you - if you decide to go to uni. Employers prefer people who have completed their degrees, whatever the subject, rather than those who've dropped out of a degree they couldn't cope with.
Of course, if aeronautical engineering is (or could be) your main interest, then go do it - whether or not you intend to use it in the world of work!
Scroggs
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However, just to put you on the right lines, do not attempt an Aeronautical Engineering degree because someone tells you it'll help your ATPL theory! That, in a word, is crap. Oh, sure, you'll cruise the tech and PoF theory - if you've completed the degree, but this is the worst possible reason for choosing this subject. It's a bit like doing a degree in Shakespear because you've got an English GCSE coming up!
If you have no intention of being an aeronautical engineer, and the idea of doing this subject at universtity for three or four years isn't your abiding wish, then be sensible: do whatever degree most interests you - if you decide to go to uni. Employers prefer people who have completed their degrees, whatever the subject, rather than those who've dropped out of a degree they couldn't cope with.
Of course, if aeronautical engineering is (or could be) your main interest, then go do it - whether or not you intend to use it in the world of work!
Scroggs
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Thanks very much Crepello and especially Scroggs for your reply. It was very helpful.
I was wondering (while researching different courses) why an Aeronautical Engineering degree opens up so many non-aviation related jobs!
P16
I was wondering (while researching different courses) why an Aeronautical Engineering degree opens up so many non-aviation related jobs!
P16
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If you want to get sponsored, I'd suggest a degree as an extra 'feather for the cap'.
I was fortunate enough to get sponsored a couple of years ago, and everyone had degrees as well as PPL's.
I was fortunate enough to get sponsored a couple of years ago, and everyone had degrees as well as PPL's.
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Fair enough, my link between AeroEng and ATPL was overstated. But any engineering degree would provide skills useful for ATPLs, e.g. numeracy, reasoning, managing a heavy workload... 
If you can hack it, it'd be a damn sight more useful than Media Studies etc., but Scroggs' third paragraph is spot on.
My main point was that IMHO, it's far better to have a degree than to have not.
If you can hack it, it'd be a damn sight more useful than Media Studies etc., but Scroggs' third paragraph is spot on.My main point was that IMHO, it's far better to have a degree than to have not.
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I found that a Physics A-Level was more than enough to see me through my ATPL Theory of Flight. If you like Aero Eng or can see an alternative career in that discipline then go for it. However, you are better off having a good degree in a subject you enjoy, than a poor degree in Aero Eng.
As for your initial question of whether to do a degree or not, I would say do it. As has been mentioned, the market for pilots is now quite depressed and will hopefully improve by the time you emerge from uni. Most of the airlines who sponsor seem to prefer graduates and even if they do start recruiting for cadets and you get accepted, then you can always drop out of uni. Should the pilot career not work out (and there are reasons beyond your control why it shouldn't) then you will have had a great 3 years and be well qualified to get a proper (ie well-paid!) job.
Finally, and people often forget this on this sort of thread, uni is great fun! 3 or more years of being treated like an adult with none of the responsibilities. You'll make good friends, drink far too much and emerge a much more well-rounded individual than when you went in.
As for your initial question of whether to do a degree or not, I would say do it. As has been mentioned, the market for pilots is now quite depressed and will hopefully improve by the time you emerge from uni. Most of the airlines who sponsor seem to prefer graduates and even if they do start recruiting for cadets and you get accepted, then you can always drop out of uni. Should the pilot career not work out (and there are reasons beyond your control why it shouldn't) then you will have had a great 3 years and be well qualified to get a proper (ie well-paid!) job.
Finally, and people often forget this on this sort of thread, uni is great fun! 3 or more years of being treated like an adult with none of the responsibilities. You'll make good friends, drink far too much and emerge a much more well-rounded individual than when you went in.
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From a graduate non-aviators perspective,
If you want to gain a degree in a subject that interests you, and you enjoy parties, booze etc, then go for it.
Do NOT waste those three years away though. There will undoubtedly be thousands of others doing the same thing and, if you do go, you need to make sure that you partake in some kind of activity that looks good on the CV.
It's so easy to do the typical student thing and become a daytime-TV guru and anybody who is interviewing you for a job will work on the assumption that you are a Bargain Hunt and Columbo expert. It's down to you to do something and if it is relevant to your intended career path then that's even better. If you can get to a UAS, give it a look. I had a couple of friends who used to dash off at weekends and do loads of flying and I envied them for it. I think the beer was cheap too!
Graduates are ten-a-penny these days so do not work on the assumption that a degree from any Uni will sort you out. Uni is an experience but it is not the real world. You will meet loads of new friends and many will last you a lifetime, but when it is all over you will look back and think of it as a phase in your life that you have passed through.
Best of luck.
If you want to gain a degree in a subject that interests you, and you enjoy parties, booze etc, then go for it.
Do NOT waste those three years away though. There will undoubtedly be thousands of others doing the same thing and, if you do go, you need to make sure that you partake in some kind of activity that looks good on the CV.
It's so easy to do the typical student thing and become a daytime-TV guru and anybody who is interviewing you for a job will work on the assumption that you are a Bargain Hunt and Columbo expert. It's down to you to do something and if it is relevant to your intended career path then that's even better. If you can get to a UAS, give it a look. I had a couple of friends who used to dash off at weekends and do loads of flying and I envied them for it. I think the beer was cheap too!
Graduates are ten-a-penny these days so do not work on the assumption that a degree from any Uni will sort you out. Uni is an experience but it is not the real world. You will meet loads of new friends and many will last you a lifetime, but when it is all over you will look back and think of it as a phase in your life that you have passed through.
Best of luck.
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tO have a degree is better than none...fact.
Having said that there is no point going to Uni if there is zero
motivation or desire for the subjects to be studied.
If you start flight training and go on to geta job you can always study your degree by correspondence.
Airlines are increasingly looking at pilot employees who do have a higher education.
Why not take a year out and travel which seems very common
among the poms.
Some life skills are better learnt at a younger age away from the aviation enviroment.
Having said all that only the lucky people inlife know what they really want to do and if the opportunity is there to start on your
chosen career then go for it.....lucky you.
Having said that there is no point going to Uni if there is zero
motivation or desire for the subjects to be studied.
If you start flight training and go on to geta job you can always study your degree by correspondence.
Airlines are increasingly looking at pilot employees who do have a higher education.
Why not take a year out and travel which seems very common
among the poms.
Some life skills are better learnt at a younger age away from the aviation enviroment.
Having said all that only the lucky people inlife know what they really want to do and if the opportunity is there to start on your
chosen career then go for it.....lucky you.
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I'm drawing to the end of my flying career, and I have put 3 kids through Uni. If you are interested, here are some of my observations so far:
Uni is great fun, but dare I say it, not always completely practical. The legions of 'Media Studies', 'Sociology', 'Philosophy', 'Politics & Economics', 'Sports Sciences whatever' graduates will have greatly enjoyed themselves and had an all round good time, but won't particularly have equiped themselves to be valuable employees. Subjects have to be useful to others to make you attractive. By all means go to Uni if you want to, but.......
My experience in BA is that Uni cost the individuals 3+ years on the seniority scale that for some has meant delaying promotion 10 or 12 years (due to cyclical effects), and unfortunately restricted pension prospects for some- and the benefits are hard to identify apart from maybe personal satisfaction. In this context, I think Uni and flying are not mutually compatible. If you want to fly, and trust your money earning career to 6 monthly health checks, then Uni is a waste of valuable time. If you are determined to fly, get the degree later.
As for the fabled 'year out'-beware! All 3 of my children have done the trail to Thailand and the Antipodes. I find the 'education' possibilities limited, it seems to me it is largely a way of staving off the time a long term student has to get into a career market- the longer it goes on the harder it seems to be! IMO, a complete waste of time unless spent on something valuable and personnally rewarding rather than staying on a Vietnamese beach for 3 months and living like a peasant with a local family! You are probably too full of initiative to waste time like this, although it may sound superficially attractive.
That's how I see it! No arguments at me please. I'm 53 and I've had (and lived with) the experience!
Uni is great fun, but dare I say it, not always completely practical. The legions of 'Media Studies', 'Sociology', 'Philosophy', 'Politics & Economics', 'Sports Sciences whatever' graduates will have greatly enjoyed themselves and had an all round good time, but won't particularly have equiped themselves to be valuable employees. Subjects have to be useful to others to make you attractive. By all means go to Uni if you want to, but.......
My experience in BA is that Uni cost the individuals 3+ years on the seniority scale that for some has meant delaying promotion 10 or 12 years (due to cyclical effects), and unfortunately restricted pension prospects for some- and the benefits are hard to identify apart from maybe personal satisfaction. In this context, I think Uni and flying are not mutually compatible. If you want to fly, and trust your money earning career to 6 monthly health checks, then Uni is a waste of valuable time. If you are determined to fly, get the degree later.
As for the fabled 'year out'-beware! All 3 of my children have done the trail to Thailand and the Antipodes. I find the 'education' possibilities limited, it seems to me it is largely a way of staving off the time a long term student has to get into a career market- the longer it goes on the harder it seems to be! IMO, a complete waste of time unless spent on something valuable and personnally rewarding rather than staying on a Vietnamese beach for 3 months and living like a peasant with a local family! You are probably too full of initiative to waste time like this, although it may sound superficially attractive.
That's how I see it! No arguments at me please. I'm 53 and I've had (and lived with) the experience!
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NotSo - you can cope with arguments, trust me I'm sure your kids will agree with me!
Seriously, I take issure with your politics and economics comment in particular. That degree in itself eqipped me with the most beneficial skills I could possibly have for any type of work at all. In my position (just out of univerisity) I am in no bad position whatsoever, since BA are not recruiting, and it is costing me no seniority whatsoever - many recruited while I wa at uni were over graduation age. So it may be that I am simply a lucky person at the right time, but take a look at the pages the BA courses produced on the internet - the people recruited either had degees or were experienced in the world of work and looking for a career change (sponsorship I mean)
Uni and flying did work for me - being a UAS member and in my final year a paying member of a flying club when I decided RAF wa not for me.
I am now equipped with an education that means that I can understand what sort of business situation BA is in at the moment, I had great fun at uni, I got a very good degree from the third oldest univeristy in England, and quite frankly believe I am in a better position because of it.
My account is only proof that you should listen to neither mine nor NotSoFantasic's advice in itself, but follow the route that is best sutied to YOU. Because in actual fact we are both right for different people.
Seriously, I take issure with your politics and economics comment in particular. That degree in itself eqipped me with the most beneficial skills I could possibly have for any type of work at all. In my position (just out of univerisity) I am in no bad position whatsoever, since BA are not recruiting, and it is costing me no seniority whatsoever - many recruited while I wa at uni were over graduation age. So it may be that I am simply a lucky person at the right time, but take a look at the pages the BA courses produced on the internet - the people recruited either had degees or were experienced in the world of work and looking for a career change (sponsorship I mean)
Uni and flying did work for me - being a UAS member and in my final year a paying member of a flying club when I decided RAF wa not for me.
I am now equipped with an education that means that I can understand what sort of business situation BA is in at the moment, I had great fun at uni, I got a very good degree from the third oldest univeristy in England, and quite frankly believe I am in a better position because of it.
My account is only proof that you should listen to neither mine nor NotSoFantasic's advice in itself, but follow the route that is best sutied to YOU. Because in actual fact we are both right for different people.
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Yes but nowadays it is not just a case of what is ENOUGH to see you through, but what is MORE that everyone else who also watns that job.
To be perfectly honest even being simply a graduate is not enough for many companies these days. How depressing
To be perfectly honest even being simply a graduate is not enough for many companies these days. How depressing
My experience was that a degree cost me £9,000 and 3 years. Had I not gone to Uni then I would be have become a flying instructor 3 years earlier, joined an airline 3 years earlier and be a Captain right now. The IR would have been free which would have helped.
A degree doesn't really 'help' in any demonstrable way and a gap year is nothing more than a holiday in 99% of cases.
No sponsorships require a degree.
If you get excellent A-level grades then that more or less spells out clearly your fundamental academic ability.
WWW
A degree doesn't really 'help' in any demonstrable way and a gap year is nothing more than a holiday in 99% of cases.
No sponsorships require a degree.
If you get excellent A-level grades then that more or less spells out clearly your fundamental academic ability.
WWW