Urgent Help Needed - A 35-year old planning a Career Change

[Gary Johnston]

Can anyone help...
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I am 35 years old and am on the verge of giving up work to start Flight training. I have sold my house to free up the capital required to pay for the training, and am now looking to simply get my act together and get started....
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I am starting to get overloaded with the choice of formats (Integrated vs Modular) and flying schools (Oxford, Cabair, etc). I have been up to Cabair's open day, and am starting to consider visiting Oxford and maybe Jerez...
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As a mature student, I am better placed going Integrated, or does it really matter if I go Modular but within the same 12-18 month time frame?
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Ideally, I would like to stay close to West London due family committments - but, if this is a disadvantage, am willing to look elsewhere - even overseas ???
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Can anyone suggest the best route... and maybe offer some tips to a 'mature' entrant looking to qualify, land a job and get flying as soon as possible...
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Finally, am I being realistic / naive / brave in thinking this career change can actually happen ??
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Thanks, in advance
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Gary
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[Gillespie]

If I were you, I'd definately go down the modular route and still try and stick to the 18month(ish) time frame.

Also (just a suggestion) don't give in to the major schools' marketing campaigns. Yeah they print nice glossy brochures but do they have a good instructor to student ratio? are they one of course that 'apparently' seem to prioritise their students giving preference to those that are on a 'flagship course'?

At the end of the day all you need (theoretically) is a piece of paper saying fATPL CPL/IR on it. As long as you train at an approved FTO it doesn't matter where you train. This way you could save 10's of thousands - literally.

I'm not going to lie to you, it's not going to be easy becuase you are a late starter. Most airlines seem to turn their noses up at very low houred pilots over 26.

Some rough stats for you, every year there about 400 pilot jobs going. Each year there are about 2,000 qualified pilots graduating (rough figures, but I believe I'm in the correct ball park).

Think long and hard before you make this enormous decision. But at the same time if you decide to take the plunge and you have perseverance you'll make it one day.

Good luck.

[Biscuit]

Hi Gary,

If you go down the modular route, the cash you save will pay for most of a type rating. This may help job prospects if you are an older applicant - although it wont make you any friends on these forums!!

Also, you may want to just commit to a PPL to begin with as you may discover flying is not want you want to do all day every day.

If you're in London, you can do your ground school at London Met (I commuted in from West London). Choose ground school wisely, as my experience shows that if this part goes pair shaped some serious time delays can develop as often you are unable to re-sit exams for two months.

Cheers,

Biscuit

[High Wing Drifter]

If I read the SRG stats right, that is 145 new IRs last year. What makes that interesting is that there were 866 CPL issues. Either way, not anywhere near 2000.

http://www.caa.co.uk/docs/175/srg_fc...es_2003_04.pdf

[Gary Johnston]

Hello Everyone (Again)
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Thanks for your quick responses - I really appreciate it.. and feel like I have some support at last since finding this website. Until now, all I had were marketing experts at the schools themselves...
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One more questions (extended!!) for Gillespie and Biscuit (and others if you wish...)
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You suggest going Modular. Do you mean my own personal modular route with diiferent companies / providers ? i.e. PPL at one school, Ground School at another, and then CPL. IR elsewhere ??
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Also, to go for the 12/18 month target I would still need to give up work - is this what you meant ?? ...or is part-time training / study an option ??
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My initial thoughts were as follows...
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(i) Intense 21 day PPL utilising my outstanding leave / holiday for this year.
(ii) Come back to work, and if I'm still happy with my decision, plan to leave work permanently.
(iii) Commence full-time Flight school lasting 6 months (??)
(iv) ...and onwards from there
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Thanks again
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Gary
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[Gillespie]

I think you're definitely on the right track with your plans for a ppl during your work leave. You can only really make a judgement on weather this is in fact what you want do or not. If you don't, then you still have an income to return to.

With regards to your choice of schools etc, I'd recomment getting the ground school out of the way first as this seems to be a major hurdle in terms of time scale . Should you choose to do a distance learning course (my personnal choice of actions) then you can indeed carry on with a day job and work in the evening and weekends. This should take about 1 year to complete and it will bugger your social life but at least you can put bread on the table.

Once this is complete then start to worry about the flying. I'd recommed doing your CPL/IR at the same school allowing you to build a rappor with an instructor.

Obviously the first thing to do is get your medical!!!!

[flaps to 60]

Gary

Before you decide which way to go in term of Modular or Intergrated and God knows its a toughie.

Ring your target airlines and ask them which way they would suggest. Also attend the Balpa EOC conference as you may get an insight into which way and even if you should at this time.

Good luck and it will be all worth it when you get there.

[Biscuit]

Gary,

Yep, just do the modules at whichever school suits you for whatever reason e.g. cost/location/reputation... Once you've done your PPL you can the begin the ground school. It's fairly demanding and getting the ATPL writtens out the way before you complete any more expensive flight training is prudent in case you decide to stop along the way. I've seen people drop out despite giving it the big one about how keen they are at the start!!

Cheers,

Biscuit


PS Getting the PPL in 21 days doesn't always happen so be prepared to finish up when you get back if you run out of time. I assume you'd be going State side? When I did my PPL at a well known US school, not many completed within 21 days. However, it was during the summer and the weather in Florida isn't always as perfect as they make out.

[Flypuppy]

Gary,

Get a nice big mug of tea and couple of ginger snaps, sit yerself down and have good read of the Archived threads

For those of us “of a certain age” (over 30) then self funded training is the only option. Age is not really a huge barrier, obviously the career path is going to be slightly more limited, but there is nothing preventing anyone up to their mid/late forties studying and getting a job as an airline pilot. You must of course be aware that the chances of getting a very high paying salary are likely to be somewhat less the older you get. On saying that I do know of one 747 TRE/TRI and a Training Captain who started their flying careers when they were in their 30's

If you are married it is important to keep the significant other fully informed and let them know what is happening. If you can spare some cash, pamper the wife. It will reap dividends later on. Trust me on this one. The other question you must ask yourself is can you and your family cope with the enforced absences while training and the stress during training. A.I.D.S. (Aviation Induced Divorce Syndrome) is a very real risk. Is becoming a pilot worth the risk of trashing your family for? Be very careful with this. You must be a very good time manager. Don’t start this project without the support and backing of your partner.

[flaps to 60]

Obviously the first thing to do is get your medical!!!!

One chap started on my 509 course and after a couple of months had to give up because he couldn't get the medical......and wasted several £1000's doing so. Let alone tasting some of the dream and then having to walk away.

Good advice Gillespie

[Gary Johnston]

Thanks again everyone...
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...I think I'm slowly getting there...
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With regard to early stages of the flight training on the modular route, (especially if completing the course via distance learning), how does the 6/12 month groundschool create a problem with the flying element of the training? I assume that after 40+ hours flying on the PPL, to then go for an extended period of time with no flying while you cover the theory to be a bit tough....
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Additionally, can anyone recommend a fastrack PPL in the UK or US...
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Thanks again
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Gary
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[High Wing Drifter]

Get this book: http://www.ppl-atpl.demon.co.uk/

[Mordacai]

Be VERY careful if looking at fast track PPL's.

It's basically impossible to do a PPL in 21 days in the UK, and even in Florida 21 days is pushing it a bit, but it can be done if you work your nuts off.

If you go stateside, get all the ground exams done before you leave, this greatly reduces the pressure you will be under, leaving you some 'playtime'. Use the search function to find the recommended schools, and feel free to PM me if you want details of stateside flying.

Good Luck
M (33 very soon)

[Flypuppy]

Just in case you missed my list of Do's and Dont's


Some Do's and Don'ts

DO

• Do make up your own mind. This must be something that you want to do.
• Do buy a copy of Clive Hughes' excellent guide to getting a professional licence.
• Do make sure you like flying. Take a 30/45/60 minute trial flying lesson. Explain to the instructor what you are planning.
• Do get a Class One Medical as soon as practically possible. It costs approx 400 quid, but you arent going to do any flying without it...
• Do talk to current and ex-pupils from the schools you are interested in. (Make sure the marketing people are not around).
• Do consider Modular over Integrated.
• Do a search on PPRuNe for the schools you are considering
• Do build at least a 20% contingency into any financial plan you come up with.

DON'T

• Don't go into this without a back up plan if it all goes wrong.
• Don't base your choice solely on the glossy brochures and glib promises of marketing men/women.
• Don't base your choice solely on the opinions of posters on PPRuNe.
• Don't pay for anything up front. Ever.
• Don't expect things to go exactly according to plan.
• Don't expect a job straight after finishing training. Have that back up plan ready.
• Don't expect to get through the training without at least one episode of major frustration and/or depression.

Best of luck.

[Desk-pilot]

Mid thirties

Gary,

I gave up full time work at 33 to pursue the dream, signed up at OATS for integrated training and am now doing the IR/twin flying. I'd agree with much of the advice given above and choosing your route modular or integrated comes down to personal choice with pro's and cons to both approaches.

I think it's particularly worth emphasizing that your partner will be suffering alongside you every step of the way and you must ensure you are both fully prepared to accept the dramatic changes in your life this course will engender. I have never known any course be so all consuming, demanding, frustrating and exhausting. It is an absolute rollercoaster ride of highs and lows and I think all of us go through moments when we long to be back behind a desk being well paid in our old career not worrying about the next set of crucial tests. If you go into this expecting the worst you won't be disappointed. It's particularly difficult I think for older chaps who have previously reached a certain level of respect and capability in their previous career to suddenly feel incompetent again as they try their hand at something completely new - and there's seemingly something completely new every day especially in the flying phases!

Not trying to put you off, but an Aer Lingus FO once said to me 'it's a fantastic year I would never ever want to have to repeat again' which I think sums up the way I feel about it!

Whatever you decide, good luck - you'll enjoy the flying when it goes well and hate it when you're not on top of it.

Best wishes,

Desk-pilot

[Deanyboy]

Career change like Gary

Hi Everyone,

I have a major dilema like Gary. I am 30 year of age and i have been speaking to several companies in the UK and USA for advice.

My end game if all going well is to be a airline pilot but the problem i have is everyone just wants to sell me a course.

I have spoken to Phoenix east aviation in Daytona, Delta Connections in Orlando, CTC McAlpine UK, CabAir, etc etc.

The problem i have encountered is FAA/JAA. Most of the US courses are FAA exept Delta who offer JAA over a 14 month period at a vastly reduced cost compared to the UK.

Can someone please advise me on the qualifications i should be looking to gain and what your feeling are on US courses.

Many thanks,

The confused one.

[Straightandlevel80kt]

Slow down!

Gary

I have three things to say:

1) Slow down
2) Slow down
3) Slow down

This sort of dilemma has been covered a thousand times on here.

Forget medicals and airline careers for now, and don't quit your day job.

The very first thing you need to do is get down to your local windswept airfield and have a few lessons in a clapped out old Cessna 152, to see if you like flying.

Don't underestimate the value of taking your time to do your PPL. You will learn much more and gain valuable experience - not least of different weather conditions - by doing it over the course of 6 months to a year. And most importantly, a PPL should be, and is, enormous fun when you just relax and take your time.

Get to know your instructor(s), have lots of chats with them and people at your club and you'll really start to get a flavour for the industry, different training routes and options, and become a miserable old cynic like the rest of us! :-)

I think you asked if you were being naive (sorry if I've confused you with someone else!). With respect, you sound as though you did what I and countless others have done, and got swept along with the hurried sales patter of those who will gladly part you with your cash.

Whether you choose to ignore the above or not, my advice is stay in the UK, fly from a club/ school near London and in the long term go modular.

All the best, whatever you decide.

[Dan 98]

Gary,
I have PM you, if you live in West London you should really check out Stapleford, they seem to have a good reputation and you could do the Ground school in London or distance learning. You could even do your PPL there although I have heard there C152's are a bit old but fine for PPL, that way you could see what they were like.
All the best

Dan

[Biscuit]

Gary,

I totally agree with Straightandlevel80kt's comments above and wish I had done my PPL that way. HOWEVER, if you're career minded and want to go for the airlines I'd strongly recommend to just get moving asap by the fastest means possible!! If you spend another whole year getting you PPL, time's not going to be standing still...

If you do want to do your PPL in the UK there are plently of flying clubs to the west of London. Don't have to trek east to Stapleford.

Biscuit

[Megaton]

1. Make sure you enjoy flying: have a trial lesson or two.
2. Get a Class 1 medical from the CAA.
3. Buy Clive Hughes' book (http://www.ppl-atpl.demon.co.uk/ ).
4. PPL
5. Build hours.
6. Distane Learning ATPL exams.
7. Give up work.
8. CPL
9. IR
10. Visit Job Centre