Progress tests and failing them
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Progress test's and failing them
Hello,
I feel I have to post and ask, not even ask, just share my pain at the mountain I, indeed we all have to climb that is the ATPL's.
Open book progress test with BGS, getting around 75% sometimes more sometimes less. I feel I should be getting at least 85-90% open book?
Very concerned about remembering all the variables like CAS, RAS what will happen to the ASI if this or that, there seem jsut a huge amount of variables to remember.
The same with Met and lapse rates, cloud formation etc.
I used to like Met
Any tips on how to get your head around these subjects where your looking at a quesiton and it offers answers that require you to hold a tonne of information in your head and see it all at once? Mine doesnt like doing that too much 
Do you know what I mean? I hope someone does!
Would be great to hear from anyone in the same boat,
Good luck to all those who are on the road, its not about the destination, but the journey....right?
Buster
I feel I have to post and ask, not even ask, just share my pain at the mountain I, indeed we all have to climb that is the ATPL's.
Open book progress test with BGS, getting around 75% sometimes more sometimes less. I feel I should be getting at least 85-90% open book?
Very concerned about remembering all the variables like CAS, RAS what will happen to the ASI if this or that, there seem jsut a huge amount of variables to remember.
The same with Met and lapse rates, cloud formation etc.
I used to like Met
Any tips on how to get your head around these subjects where your looking at a quesiton and it offers answers that require you to hold a tonne of information in your head and see it all at once? Mine doesnt like doing that too much Do you know what I mean? I hope someone does!
Would be great to hear from anyone in the same boat,
Good luck to all those who are on the road, its not about the destination, but the journey....right?
Buster
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Hi Buster,
You will need to find those little tricks people use to remember the key facts. Ask most in yr flight school or those on here, the list is endless. Often there are crazy Mneumonics (sp?) to help remember the order or sequences.
A few other tips that spring to mind:
CTM Graphs to see relationship between CAS TAS Mach No. with increasing alt.
There are more but my head has gone blank now. Hope it helps
You will need to find those little tricks people use to remember the key facts. Ask most in yr flight school or those on here, the list is endless. Often there are crazy Mneumonics (sp?) to help remember the order or sequences.
A few other tips that spring to mind:
CTM Graphs to see relationship between CAS TAS Mach No. with increasing alt.
There are more but my head has gone blank now. Hope it helps
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Hi Buster,
Hopefully I can put your mind at rest a little. I am half way through Module 2 with BGS and thought I'd try and offer you some reassurance.
The most important thing is to get through all of the course material and try and get a reasonable understanding of it all. Don’t worry about trying to remember every detailed fact as otherwise it will take you forever to cover the subjects. As long as you have some understanding, the brush-up will bring the knowledge out of you. Alex, Baz, Tom, Ken and Co. are truly brilliant at their jobs and in the two weeks will load your brain up with every graph, mnemonic, and tip you need to get through the exams. (As well as some bad jokes, amusing anecdotes and dodgy GPWS impressions!)
You say you are worried about remembering Met figures and variables such as RAS and EAS. Do not panic! Once you have finished your two week drilling in Cheddar you will be ready to tackle the exams. I felt I had done reasonably well in my progress tests, but a couple of weeks before the brush-up I felt I was starting to forget everything.
The first week there is tough and I felt I wasn’t making much progress, but come week two all the jigsaw pieces were nicely slotting into place.
The ATPL’s are a bit of a mountain as you say but the rewards will be worth it. I can’t wait for the September brush-up so I can get the last few exams out of the way and then on with some more serious flying.
Good luck and keep on at it,
Matt.
Hopefully I can put your mind at rest a little. I am half way through Module 2 with BGS and thought I'd try and offer you some reassurance.
The most important thing is to get through all of the course material and try and get a reasonable understanding of it all. Don’t worry about trying to remember every detailed fact as otherwise it will take you forever to cover the subjects. As long as you have some understanding, the brush-up will bring the knowledge out of you. Alex, Baz, Tom, Ken and Co. are truly brilliant at their jobs and in the two weeks will load your brain up with every graph, mnemonic, and tip you need to get through the exams. (As well as some bad jokes, amusing anecdotes and dodgy GPWS impressions!)
You say you are worried about remembering Met figures and variables such as RAS and EAS. Do not panic! Once you have finished your two week drilling in Cheddar you will be ready to tackle the exams. I felt I had done reasonably well in my progress tests, but a couple of weeks before the brush-up I felt I was starting to forget everything.
The first week there is tough and I felt I wasn’t making much progress, but come week two all the jigsaw pieces were nicely slotting into place. The ATPL’s are a bit of a mountain as you say but the rewards will be worth it. I can’t wait for the September brush-up so I can get the last few exams out of the way and then on with some more serious flying.
Good luck and keep on at it,
Matt.
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Buster,
I think you are suffering from pre exam nerves as we all do. If you havent done your brush up course, then remember there will be a number things that will crop up and most likely answer most of your outstanding questions. Another thing you should remember is as this stage you are still learning and hopefully you will peak just before your exams.
Must admit I struggle to remember all the little sayings, but a few srping to mind like Cadbury's Dairy Milk very Tasty for instrument problems (True, Magnetic, Compass headings etc) and Chicken Tikka Massala for the CTM graphs as discussed by Boeing Bus.
With regard to met, I found this exam quite tricky, however, the thing that made tricky were the way some of the questions were worded. Read them very carefully. I seem to recall about 6 alimetry questions, worded in such a way to make your head explode. After spending some time breaking them down and drawing a little picture, it turns out they are actually quite straight forward, so be careful. If fact that goes for most of the JAR exams.
Just keep plugging away, you should be fine.
I think you are suffering from pre exam nerves as we all do. If you havent done your brush up course, then remember there will be a number things that will crop up and most likely answer most of your outstanding questions. Another thing you should remember is as this stage you are still learning and hopefully you will peak just before your exams.
Must admit I struggle to remember all the little sayings, but a few srping to mind like Cadbury's Dairy Milk very Tasty for instrument problems (True, Magnetic, Compass headings etc) and Chicken Tikka Massala for the CTM graphs as discussed by Boeing Bus.
With regard to met, I found this exam quite tricky, however, the thing that made tricky were the way some of the questions were worded. Read them very carefully. I seem to recall about 6 alimetry questions, worded in such a way to make your head explode. After spending some time breaking them down and drawing a little picture, it turns out they are actually quite straight forward, so be careful. If fact that goes for most of the JAR exams.
Just keep plugging away, you should be fine.
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Hi Buster,
I've completed Mod 1 with BGS, and am now on Mod 2. (Only 2 months left...Hurrah!!)
The progress tests should be done from memory, not from looking through your notes, unless you really don't know something. (I'm not sure if your open-book comment means you are using notes to answer each question. If you are, I would say stop it, and try to pass the tests without reference).
I tend to do each frame, and aim to get 75% on my first attempt. Most of the time I get this, but a few have fallen short. If this happens, I go back over the notes again, and try once more. If you are getting below 50% all the time, then you clearly need to do a more in-depth look at the notes.
The nearer the brush up comes, the worse you may feel. I couldn't recall the vast amount of data for the earlier frames, although I did make sure I understood stuff. There is a big difference between memorising data and knowing it. Make sure the concepts of Gen Nav, Met, Instruments are familiar.
As Matt mentions, it is a hellish couple of weeks, but you will be prepared for the exams.
I've completed Mod 1 with BGS, and am now on Mod 2. (Only 2 months left...Hurrah!!)
The progress tests should be done from memory, not from looking through your notes, unless you really don't know something. (I'm not sure if your open-book comment means you are using notes to answer each question. If you are, I would say stop it, and try to pass the tests without reference).
I tend to do each frame, and aim to get 75% on my first attempt. Most of the time I get this, but a few have fallen short. If this happens, I go back over the notes again, and try once more. If you are getting below 50% all the time, then you clearly need to do a more in-depth look at the notes.
The nearer the brush up comes, the worse you may feel. I couldn't recall the vast amount of data for the earlier frames, although I did make sure I understood stuff. There is a big difference between memorising data and knowing it. Make sure the concepts of Gen Nav, Met, Instruments are familiar.
As Matt mentions, it is a hellish couple of weeks, but you will be prepared for the exams.
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Buster,
first off keep your head down and you'll pass the ATPL's. I had difficultys with some subjects but 1 year later I'm flying a B737 for a European Low cost carrier. Its hard work but you'll get there.
Two things to remember are
" Instrument rated examineers are truly picked "
IAS
Pressure
Instrument
RAS
Compressibillity
EAS
Density
TAS
first off keep your head down and you'll pass the ATPL's. I had difficultys with some subjects but 1 year later I'm flying a B737 for a European Low cost carrier. Its hard work but you'll get there.
Two things to remember are
" Instrument rated examineers are truly picked "
IAS
Pressure
Instrument
RAS
Compressibillity
EAS
Density
TAS
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You seem to be experiencing the same nerves that just about everybody sitting ATPL exams feels.
Did my ATPL's about 2 years ago with BGS and felt exactly the same way throughout the studying.
As has been said it all comes together in the brush up courses that are two of the hardest weeks (per module) you'll ever undertake.
Have faith in BGS and the equal efforts put in by the guys (and gals) that are just as passionate about passes.
If you put the work in and try to remember as much as you can and work towards getting a good overall understanding of the topics rather than relying too heavily on feedback you will be fine.
Know its hard to believe given the volumes currently sat before you, but I sat mine on a heli hybrid course that was predominately fixed wing based and got 14 first time passes. No degree, poor A level results but willing to work my bits off to achieve my dream.
Still don't know what an aileron does!
But now living my dream
Best of luck
Did my ATPL's about 2 years ago with BGS and felt exactly the same way throughout the studying.
As has been said it all comes together in the brush up courses that are two of the hardest weeks (per module) you'll ever undertake.
Have faith in BGS and the equal efforts put in by the guys (and gals) that are just as passionate about passes.
If you put the work in and try to remember as much as you can and work towards getting a good overall understanding of the topics rather than relying too heavily on feedback you will be fine.
Know its hard to believe given the volumes currently sat before you, but I sat mine on a heli hybrid course that was predominately fixed wing based and got 14 first time passes. No degree, poor A level results but willing to work my bits off to achieve my dream.
Still don't know what an aileron does!
But now living my dream
Best of luck
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Thank you,
boeingbus2002, mattd2k, CAT3C AUTOLAND, no sponsor, Bail out, Flingingwings
It’s great to hear of other peoples experiences whilst doing the ATPL’s and a few success storied with jobs afterward. A great pick me up just having a few of the team (wannabe’s/been there done it) pat you on the back and say chin up, look at us we all did it.
I am absolutely committed to passing these exams and fully expect this course of study to be the hardest I have ever undertaken. I have a huge loan riding on this as well as a life times ambition, and without them of course I can go no further. The thing is my close friends say I am worrying too much, getting too worked up about not getting great marks in the progress tests. It makes me wonder perhaps I need to slow down, trying to do a frame a week may be too much. Its just if I’m not on the November brush up I wont be sitting the exams until February and that just seems too far way.
Certainly, no sponsor if I were to follow your advice then it would take me a lot longer than a week to get 75% in the progress tests from memory. Everyone else I have spoken to works through them open book, perhaps your method is right, or perhaps different people work in different ways. I haven’t seen a firm recommendation in the notes to suggest either way? I would love to be able to get 75% from memory at this point but feel I would take forever to get through the stuff. Is that just what it takes or as you progress and do more examples over and over it all just starts to fall into place. Mattd2k, I hope your right
Those with flying jobs a year on, congratulations, that’s just inspiring to hear and I look forward to the day I can write on these pages to some poor guy or girl in my shoes and say that yes, even I, who panicked 4 frames in got through with the help and support of the guys and girls on PPRune and BGS. I have been on these forums for a few years now and I’m only just starting to get where I want to be. I have posted many times for help and I doubt this will be my last post looking for tips or perhaps a different perspective on a subject.
I hope you don’t mind, and in my mind that’s what this forum is all about.
Thanks again for your tips and support. I have arranged to meet with a FO who flies for a local TP operator as well who’s going to try and sort me out. I need all the help I can get...clearly
Having got this far and secured a loan to fund my training if anyone would like any information on how I did it, the first hurdle for many there is a post but feel free to PM me for any extra's
All the best and good luck to the others studying away who like me might need some inspiration along the way.
Many thanks again
Regards,
Buster
boeingbus2002, mattd2k, CAT3C AUTOLAND, no sponsor, Bail out, Flingingwings
It’s great to hear of other peoples experiences whilst doing the ATPL’s and a few success storied with jobs afterward. A great pick me up just having a few of the team (wannabe’s/been there done it) pat you on the back and say chin up, look at us we all did it.
I am absolutely committed to passing these exams and fully expect this course of study to be the hardest I have ever undertaken. I have a huge loan riding on this as well as a life times ambition, and without them of course I can go no further. The thing is my close friends say I am worrying too much, getting too worked up about not getting great marks in the progress tests. It makes me wonder perhaps I need to slow down, trying to do a frame a week may be too much. Its just if I’m not on the November brush up I wont be sitting the exams until February and that just seems too far way.
Certainly, no sponsor if I were to follow your advice then it would take me a lot longer than a week to get 75% in the progress tests from memory. Everyone else I have spoken to works through them open book, perhaps your method is right, or perhaps different people work in different ways. I haven’t seen a firm recommendation in the notes to suggest either way? I would love to be able to get 75% from memory at this point but feel I would take forever to get through the stuff. Is that just what it takes or as you progress and do more examples over and over it all just starts to fall into place. Mattd2k, I hope your right
Those with flying jobs a year on, congratulations, that’s just inspiring to hear and I look forward to the day I can write on these pages to some poor guy or girl in my shoes and say that yes, even I, who panicked 4 frames in got through with the help and support of the guys and girls on PPRune and BGS. I have been on these forums for a few years now and I’m only just starting to get where I want to be. I have posted many times for help and I doubt this will be my last post looking for tips or perhaps a different perspective on a subject.
I hope you don’t mind, and in my mind that’s what this forum is all about.
Thanks again for your tips and support. I have arranged to meet with a FO who flies for a local TP operator as well who’s going to try and sort me out. I need all the help I can get...clearly
Having got this far and secured a loan to fund my training if anyone would like any information on how I did it, the first hurdle for many there is a post but feel free to PM me for any extra's
All the best and good luck to the others studying away who like me might need some inspiration along the way.
Many thanks again
Regards,
Buster
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Hi Buster,
Like you i initially found all that info a bit overwhelming so I used to make up little rhymes, stories, pictures, etc. To give you one small example:
In Nav (and planning) - point of equal time / point of no return.
I always used to get these mixed up. So i made a mental picture of 2 animals (please stay with me on this one)
PNR:
PNR stands for panier which is worn by the donkey. The donkey says, "e-oh"
hence:
PNR = EOH
------
O+H
....now this method seems ridiculous, and it is, but if it works...
Everyone in my class who came out of the Nav exam [having previously mocked my technique] said they remembered the equation because of the donkey.
The other one is PET
the pet is a dog which lives in the Dog House
hence:
PET = DH
-----
O+H
The more ludicrous the picture, the more likely you are to remember it. Try it, it may work for you. If there is anything specific you are having dificulty with, PM me and I will try my best to help.
HG
Like you i initially found all that info a bit overwhelming so I used to make up little rhymes, stories, pictures, etc. To give you one small example:
In Nav (and planning) - point of equal time / point of no return.
I always used to get these mixed up. So i made a mental picture of 2 animals (please stay with me on this one)
PNR:
PNR stands for panier which is worn by the donkey. The donkey says, "e-oh"
hence:
PNR = EOH
------
O+H
....now this method seems ridiculous, and it is, but if it works...
Everyone in my class who came out of the Nav exam [having previously mocked my technique] said they remembered the equation because of the donkey.
The other one is PET
the pet is a dog which lives in the Dog House
hence:
PET = DH
-----
O+H
The more ludicrous the picture, the more likely you are to remember it. Try it, it may work for you. If there is anything specific you are having dificulty with, PM me and I will try my best to help.
HG
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Hello,
I just wanna know if you guys at Bristol have the chance to study the questions in advance of the Progress Checks?
I'm currently involved in a similar distant learning course, and we have a Question Data Bank which we can use to prepare for the PC´s, thus we know already the questions. Of course it's a lot easier to score high !
What about you?
I just wanna know if you guys at Bristol have the chance to study the questions in advance of the Progress Checks?
I'm currently involved in a similar distant learning course, and we have a Question Data Bank which we can use to prepare for the PC´s, thus we know already the questions. Of course it's a lot easier to score high !
What about you?
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HandspringGuy, Subsidence & HWD
Thanks for your replies. I have started creating little things as you say to help remember and it’s starting to work.
I have a friend who plays golf and he said when he was learning the 18 (I think its 18) rules of the air he pictured each hole of his local course and little notice at each hole with the correct rule.
It worked for him and I can see it working for me to
Cheers for the continued help and support.
Having failed the first instrument progress test and redoing it a couple of times I am finding the info is just starting to stick. I can see how doing thousands of feedback papers will make the facts and figures go in and of course we just have to know how to use the correct formula's. Its looking do-able though I’m not counting my chickens until February!
Thanks again,
Regards,
Buster
Thanks for your replies. I have started creating little things as you say to help remember and it’s starting to work.
I have a friend who plays golf and he said when he was learning the 18 (I think its 18) rules of the air he pictured each hole of his local course and little notice at each hole with the correct rule.
It worked for him and I can see it working for me to
Cheers for the continued help and support.
Having failed the first instrument progress test and redoing it a couple of times I am finding the info is just starting to stick. I can see how doing thousands of feedback papers will make the facts and figures go in and of course we just have to know how to use the correct formula's. Its looking do-able
though I’m not counting my chickens until February!Thanks again,
Regards,
Buster
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When you do the crammer course, BGS will teach you all the tricks to remember things like the 18 Annexes that you mentioned. Honestly, you will be slick. But you must enter the crammer course with enough spare capacity to refine your existing knowledge, if you understand what I mean.
Good luck!
HWD.
Good luck!
HWD.
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Buster,
One tip if you are using both the Notes and the PCMS from BGS.
Try doing all the Progress tests as I do, closed book long hand via the notes progress tests.
Make good notes as to why you came to that decision.
Then if you are truelly worried go to the PCMS and use your already worked out answers and do that open book.
You will have had to work hard to get the answers you did long hand, and the PCMS and the open book method will help you see where you went wrong.
However it is most important to do it Closed book to start with.
You remember much more from spending hours getting something wrong than minutes getting ti right :-)
Regards
Nick Partridge ( BGS Module 1 Oct 2004 ) [ Yikes ]
One tip if you are using both the Notes and the PCMS from BGS.
Try doing all the Progress tests as I do, closed book long hand via the notes progress tests.
Make good notes as to why you came to that decision.
Then if you are truelly worried go to the PCMS and use your already worked out answers and do that open book.
You will have had to work hard to get the answers you did long hand, and the PCMS and the open book method will help you see where you went wrong.
However it is most important to do it Closed book to start with.
You remember much more from spending hours getting something wrong than minutes getting ti right :-)
Regards
Nick Partridge ( BGS Module 1 Oct 2004 ) [ Yikes ]
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I'm currently studying Mod 1 with Bristol. I found the best way (for me at least) was to go through all the frames as in the manual, do the progress tests closed-book, and then go back through each individual subject in its entirity. Everything seems to then fall into place! First time round, progress test results were between 55% and 100%(comms!), when doing the individual subjects everything seems clearer as I was more focussed. Consistently getting 85-100%.
I found Met to be the real ba***rd, so I bought the Oxford CD-ROM, and that's doing the trick for me.
Nick, see you at Bristol in October!!!
Cheers,
FT
I found Met to be the real ba***rd, so I bought the Oxford CD-ROM, and that's doing the trick for me.
Nick, see you at Bristol in October!!!
Cheers,
FT
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Just do what most folks do and learn the feedback. Most folks are lying if they say they learn the subject properly, as ask them about something a few weeks after an exam and they have not got a clue.
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hi guys,
sorry to diverse a little, has anyone got any tricks for the JAR Perf exam...?
I failed it first time around and have to pass it this time!!
Having gone through all the past papers from bristol gs and achieving on average 95% everytime, how did i walk away not passing the exam...!!
Any help be much appreciated!
D
sorry to diverse a little, has anyone got any tricks for the JAR Perf exam...?
I failed it first time around and have to pass it this time!!
Having gone through all the past papers from bristol gs and achieving on average 95% everytime, how did i walk away not passing the exam...!!
Any help be much appreciated!
D
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Thanks again to those who have posted hints and tips.
I can see that it will come together with time and I recall from my PPL that I seem to learn better by doing the tests, failing them and then working through them again. I did this with the PPL confuser and learnt the material this way, not just for the exams because most of it has stuck afterward.
I have amended my timescale now and due to the Christmas break I will have about 2 months to go over the material again in its entirety and do as many past papers (feedback) as possible.
This way I can see from the exam questions where any weakness lies and get up to speed before the brush up, as recommended. Thank you.
This way I can give Alex and the team a fighting chance of getting me through and not messing up the very impressive history BGS has earned
Thanks again and DSP, I hope you get the answers your looking for. All the best for your Performance exam
Regards,
Buster
I can see that it will come together with time and I recall from my PPL that I seem to learn better by doing the tests, failing them and then working through them again. I did this with the PPL confuser and learnt the material this way, not just for the exams because most of it has stuck afterward.
I have amended my timescale now and due to the Christmas break I will have about 2 months to go over the material again in its entirety and do as many past papers (feedback) as possible.
This way I can see from the exam questions where any weakness lies and get up to speed before the brush up, as recommended. Thank you.
This way I can give Alex and the team a fighting chance of getting me through
and not messing up the very impressive history BGS has earned Thanks again and DSP, I hope you get the answers your looking for. All the best for your Performance exam
Regards,
Buster
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Very lucious maidens have very useful sex equipment for VLF, LF, MF, HF, VHF, UHF, SHF, EHF.
Cadburys dairy milk is very tasty fo Compass, Deviation, Magnectic, Variation, True
One day after hogmanay very ill again scotty for Omega, Decca, ADF, HF, VHF, ILS, A (cant remember that one) surveillance radar.
Not sure if this is still relevant to the new JAA exams but sure helped me.
Ps the four rules of meteorology.
1)Hot air rises
2)Hot air holds more moisture than cold
3)In the norther hemisphere corriolis turns right
4)Pressure moves from high to low
If you rememeber those four the rest should fall into place.
Good luck and try not to get wound up about them they're only exams and can be taken again.
Cadburys dairy milk is very tasty fo Compass, Deviation, Magnectic, Variation, True
One day after hogmanay very ill again scotty for Omega, Decca, ADF, HF, VHF, ILS, A (cant remember that one) surveillance radar.
Not sure if this is still relevant to the new JAA exams but sure helped me.
Ps the four rules of meteorology.
1)Hot air rises
2)Hot air holds more moisture than cold
3)In the norther hemisphere corriolis turns right
4)Pressure moves from high to low
If you rememeber those four the rest should fall into place.
Good luck and try not to get wound up about them they're only exams and can be taken again.
