Do you really Want to Do This...??
PPRuNe Handmaiden
We all know why we started it. You really do have to love flying or else you just wouldn't bother. Yeah, the view is nice and I enjoy the flying but as the aircraft get bigger the less flying I do. (ie autopilot etc). The most fun I had flying was tootling around in bugsmashers in the Australian bush. (Aka GAFA). WHy didn't I stay? A$20,000 isn't enough to survive and plan a life. YOu just have to get onto the bigger toys just to ensure you'll have enough cash to retire on.
Flying passengers these days is just how PPT described it. Locked doors, no contact with the people and not much contact with the FA's. Every thing is done at a rapid pace and there's little time when on the ground to stretch your legs, let alone have a look at where you are. You'd better get used to sitting in squishy cramped flight decks. When you go to work you are treated as a potential threat every time you sign on. ie scanned, bags x-rayed, security checks that go back even further these days.
Now, that assumes you're flying something reasonable.
What if the best you can do at the moment is fly a "tired" old freighter? You've paid for that priviledge and your income is pretty poor. Heating? What's that? It's 2am, -20 OAT and not much better inside. Hungry? Tough. Nothing's open and Ops just rang to tell you about the 2 extra sectors you're now going to do.
Sleep? Forget it. Need to go to the toilet? Good luck. Every thing's shut.
Want to move on? Well, a few employers look at your instructing/turboprop experience with suspicion. Oh, you've flown turboprops, can't fly jets then. Gee, that's a lot of instructing you've done, couldn't get a charter job? Now you have to start watching the age v experience curve too.
Ahh, brilliant, got the good job at last. Oh no, recession and your seniority number just isn't high enough. Off you go, good luck.
No worries, you think, I'll do something else to tide me over. As many in Ansett found out, just what skills can an airline pilot bring to another industry. You got it, none. Better have some savings (haha) or another skill.
How's the health? Better keep it good for 40+ years. Don't get cancer and don't have a heart attack. Have a bad day in the sim and fail a check. Better not fail the next one or else you're out. No pressure hey?
Most of the time you'll find that the crew you work with are great. It's management that will wear you down. Just about every one I speak to will agree with me on that one.
So, some of you don't like what the experienced folk are saying. Listen carefully and weigh it all up. These days, I just want my pay to turn up on time, allowances paid in a reasonable time and a stable roster.
I feel I am one of the lucky ones. I have had a varied and interesting career so far. I have flown in some of the most amazing places and seen stuff that next to no one will see. I would hate to have gone straight from flight school into a jet. I would have missed out on too much fun and learning. Am I rich? No. Spent the lot converting my Australian ATPL to a JAR one. Would I do it again? Possibly, but certainly I would do things in a different way.
Note, the flying schools will not tell you this.
Good luck, caveat emptor.
Flying passengers these days is just how PPT described it. Locked doors, no contact with the people and not much contact with the FA's. Every thing is done at a rapid pace and there's little time when on the ground to stretch your legs, let alone have a look at where you are. You'd better get used to sitting in squishy cramped flight decks. When you go to work you are treated as a potential threat every time you sign on. ie scanned, bags x-rayed, security checks that go back even further these days.
Now, that assumes you're flying something reasonable.
What if the best you can do at the moment is fly a "tired" old freighter? You've paid for that priviledge and your income is pretty poor. Heating? What's that? It's 2am, -20 OAT and not much better inside. Hungry? Tough. Nothing's open and Ops just rang to tell you about the 2 extra sectors you're now going to do.
Sleep? Forget it. Need to go to the toilet? Good luck. Every thing's shut.
Want to move on? Well, a few employers look at your instructing/turboprop experience with suspicion. Oh, you've flown turboprops, can't fly jets then. Gee, that's a lot of instructing you've done, couldn't get a charter job? Now you have to start watching the age v experience curve too.
Ahh, brilliant, got the good job at last. Oh no, recession and your seniority number just isn't high enough. Off you go, good luck.
No worries, you think, I'll do something else to tide me over. As many in Ansett found out, just what skills can an airline pilot bring to another industry. You got it, none. Better have some savings (haha) or another skill.
How's the health? Better keep it good for 40+ years. Don't get cancer and don't have a heart attack. Have a bad day in the sim and fail a check. Better not fail the next one or else you're out. No pressure hey?
Most of the time you'll find that the crew you work with are great. It's management that will wear you down. Just about every one I speak to will agree with me on that one.
So, some of you don't like what the experienced folk are saying. Listen carefully and weigh it all up. These days, I just want my pay to turn up on time, allowances paid in a reasonable time and a stable roster.
I feel I am one of the lucky ones. I have had a varied and interesting career so far. I have flown in some of the most amazing places and seen stuff that next to no one will see. I would hate to have gone straight from flight school into a jet. I would have missed out on too much fun and learning. Am I rich? No. Spent the lot converting my Australian ATPL to a JAR one. Would I do it again? Possibly, but certainly I would do things in a different way.
Note, the flying schools will not tell you this.
Good luck, caveat emptor.
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Iīd like to reiterate a few of the posts above. The job HAS changed, and for the worse. When you are starting out, life IS rosy. WOW! People are paying ME to fly!! After a few years. the enthusiasm starts to wane, for whatever reason. A lot of us still get a kick out of doing a walkround and as for "poling it", well, fantastic!.
However, the long time away from home , constantly degrading terms and conditions , security and general hassle donīt cut it anymore. Look at a lot of pilots in BA or other big airlines, and a lot of us work the minimum or close to it. Basically, weīre trapped. The job is what you make of it, but 9/11 was the final straw. It is very difficult to get out of the F/D nowadays, and as for meeting new people (i.e pax or cabin crew).... forget it. There just isnīt the time. The job isnīt what it was 15 yrs ago when I joined, and I was hearing the same thing then from the old-timers....
However, the long time away from home , constantly degrading terms and conditions , security and general hassle donīt cut it anymore. Look at a lot of pilots in BA or other big airlines, and a lot of us work the minimum or close to it. Basically, weīre trapped. The job is what you make of it, but 9/11 was the final straw. It is very difficult to get out of the F/D nowadays, and as for meeting new people (i.e pax or cabin crew).... forget it. There just isnīt the time. The job isnīt what it was 15 yrs ago when I joined, and I was hearing the same thing then from the old-timers....
PPRuNe Handmaiden
no sponsor,
A lot of what I would do differently pertains to Oz because that's where I started from.
Firstly, I wouldn't have worked as a lab tech in biology. I would have got an apprenticeship or similar to get engineering (maintenance) experience/quals. This would have made me a lot more employable much earlier on. Not many out of work maintenance engineers. I would have gone to a different school, that error alone cost ~$15,000.
I wouldn't have stayed bush flying/VFR flying for as long as I did. I think that cost me dearly. After I got out of bush flying things went reasonably well.
Regarding this JAR thing? I got caught by a rule change and that cost me a few quid. In hind sight I probably should have stayed at home and done it distance learning. I and no one predicted the WTC Sept 11 disaster.
20/20 hindsight is a beautiful thing. If I was 38 and starting off, I would seriously reconsider that idea.
A lot of what I would do differently pertains to Oz because that's where I started from.
Firstly, I wouldn't have worked as a lab tech in biology. I would have got an apprenticeship or similar to get engineering (maintenance) experience/quals. This would have made me a lot more employable much earlier on. Not many out of work maintenance engineers. I would have gone to a different school, that error alone cost ~$15,000.
I wouldn't have stayed bush flying/VFR flying for as long as I did. I think that cost me dearly. After I got out of bush flying things went reasonably well.
Regarding this JAR thing? I got caught by a rule change and that cost me a few quid. In hind sight I probably should have stayed at home and done it distance learning. I and no one predicted the WTC Sept 11 disaster.
20/20 hindsight is a beautiful thing. If I was 38 and starting off, I would seriously reconsider that idea.
PPRuNe Knight in Shining Armour
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How did you know I've just turned 38 reds? 
Let's face it, no one enjoys any job all of the time. I just believe that the percentage will be highest if I was flying for a living!
Let's face it, no one enjoys any job all of the time. I just believe that the percentage will be highest if I was flying for a living!
Thread Starter
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No guys I aint a troll, and this isnt a wind up
.I fly wide bodies around the world, I havent been replying to posts because that is what I have been doing, If that upsets you then think how my wife feels
This is/was one of the best jobs in the world.....My point is that providing you don't mind a high level of insecurity in your life...watching incompetent management destroying what is left of this industry, and accepting the status of Taxi Driver, this should work for you. I was one of the most enthusiastic guys at the start of all this.... But frankly my 8 year old son could do a better job than most of the overpaid so-called managers this industry has.
Our enthusiasm is quite frankly used against us....and our lifestyle has suffered as a result.
Bear in mind that in later years there are more individuals to consider than yourself. Wives have a habit of finding many aspects of this job difficult to deal with ....to the cost, very often, of the marriage. Perhaps it is a general problem most face in society today...... Perhaps I should start my own airline.......( Fat chance) the money to get that up and running is astronomical....and the paperwork........
No, Im not trying to put you all off.....Just be aware of what you are letting yourselves in for...
This is/was one of the best jobs in the world.....My point is that providing you don't mind a high level of insecurity in your life...watching incompetent management destroying what is left of this industry, and accepting the status of Taxi Driver, this should work for you. I was one of the most enthusiastic guys at the start of all this.... But frankly my 8 year old son could do a better job than most of the overpaid so-called managers this industry has.
Our enthusiasm is quite frankly used against us....and our lifestyle has suffered as a result.
Bear in mind that in later years there are more individuals to consider than yourself. Wives have a habit of finding many aspects of this job difficult to deal with ....to the cost, very often, of the marriage. Perhaps it is a general problem most face in society today...... Perhaps I should start my own airline.......( Fat chance) the money to get that up and running is astronomical....and the paperwork........
No, Im not trying to put you all off.....Just be aware of what you are letting yourselves in for...
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deathcruzer, I suspect that your description of management could be applied to most industries today. It certainly is the case where I work now. But that is not why I'm training to leave this industry and join the aviation one. There's nothing here now that I'm trying to run away from, incompetent managers included. It's my enthusiasm towards all things related to aviation that is drawing me towards your industry. So thanks for the warning but it's no different to what was expected. This is the age where budget management is more important than people management.
Regards
Stoney X
Regards
Stoney X
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Artificial Horizon,
Im sorry to hear that, but Im convinced you need to disregard all the negatives associated with this profession if you really want to succeed and be happy. Of course, with a wife to please, its not always feasible.
You almost need to put the rest of your life on hold until you reach the ideal situation i.e. for you perhaps an airline job with fewer sectors/higher pay or leaving the airlines completely for another flying job .scenic flights for tourists in New Zealand?
So, sacrifices have to be made all every stage from the wannabe who would sell his/her mother to get into the RHS to the overworked Capt who wants quality of life.
Anyway, make sure you look after No.1, after all, if you stress too much you could fail the next medical.
Could you go back to your previous profession if you chose to? Maybe fly at weekends for fun
K2
Im sorry to hear that, but Im convinced you need to disregard all the negatives associated with this profession if you really want to succeed and be happy. Of course, with a wife to please, its not always feasible.
You almost need to put the rest of your life on hold until you reach the ideal situation i.e. for you perhaps an airline job with fewer sectors/higher pay or leaving the airlines completely for another flying job .scenic flights for tourists in New Zealand?
So, sacrifices have to be made all every stage from the wannabe who would sell his/her mother to get into the RHS to the overworked Capt who wants quality of life.
Anyway, make sure you look after No.1, after all, if you stress too much you could fail the next medical.
Could you go back to your previous profession if you chose to? Maybe fly at weekends for fun
K2
Why do it if it's not fun?
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Master Yoda,
I would guess that, to most of the people on these forums, the positives of being a pilot are bl00dy obvious. And those people to whom they are not bl00dy obvious would probably be best looking for another career, rather than putting up with all the negatives when you can't see the positives.
I'm sure you fit into the category who can see the positivies without any help!
FFF
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I would guess that, to most of the people on these forums, the positives of being a pilot are bl00dy obvious. And those people to whom they are not bl00dy obvious would probably be best looking for another career, rather than putting up with all the negatives when you can't see the positives.
I'm sure you fit into the category who can see the positivies without any help!
FFF
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Sure I know the positives, but list what benefits you get from being an Airline Pilot, what do you get with the job: (benefits/perks, what airlines offer their Pilots I'm talking), rather than focusing on the 'stuck in a tin can' thing or just loving being behind the controls.
(i.e. paid car hire? company credit card? etc etc)
(i.e. paid car hire? company credit card? etc etc)
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Cant talk about other airlines...but my lot give us b
r all.......crew travel..all standby.
You do get 100 pounds / year service off company flights.Doesn't save much though.Cant even get family on the f/d jumpseats now.....(not the fault of the airline that one)
r all.......crew travel..all standby.You do get 100 pounds / year service off company flights.Doesn't save much though.Cant even get family on the f/d jumpseats now.....(not the fault of the airline that one)
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Master Yoda this is the wrong thread to be discussing the finer points of employers' terms and conditions - that's what the Terms and Endearments forum is for. This discussion is about what drives people to join or leave the flying profession. Perks and benefits are not likely to have any influence on someone's decision to take up flying; they are really only relevant to which employer you may wish to work for. And that point is discussed interminably over on T&E.
I have to say that if women, hire cars and credit cards are your principal motivation for aiming at airlines, wouldn't you be better off doing an MBA and joining the city rat race? You'll end up with more money and perks - and maybe a better lifestyle.
Scroggs
I have to say that if women, hire cars and credit cards are your principal motivation for aiming at airlines, wouldn't you be better off doing an MBA and joining the city rat race? You'll end up with more money and perks - and maybe a better lifestyle.
Scroggs
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Well, you don't get Pprune and you don't get me. If I say you're diverging from the topic, it's because you are - and you are diluting the usefulness of this thread. If you want to know about individual airlines' contracts, go to T&E. 
Scroggs
Scroggs
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Airline flying is stressful, noisy, boring and subject to incredible pressures from beancounters, schedules, ATC, and the dreaded management.
If it wasn't in my blood i would have given it up. But it is in my blood, I've known all my life this is what I wanted to do. The dream of it is very different to the reality - in many ways worse, but in most ways simply different.
But there's something about the adrenaline rush as you pound down the runway in 150tons of metal, the flush of pleasure as you grease it down after a textbook approach, the feeling of omniscience as you look down on an entire country at night, the crystal clear starry nights, shooting stars, rainbows and bursting from murky overcast into glorious sunshine at 6.00am that stirs you inside like nothing else. And this on a daily basis!
I can live with early dark morning starts, long delays, CBs, windshear, tech problems, premenstrual hosties, psychotic passengers and erratic Spanish ATC because at the end of the day I AM AN AIRLINE PILOT and I've grafted all my life to get there. I may jump ship, but I'm not dumping this career! As long as nobody takes it away from me, I'm not going to give it up myself.
Do I really want to do this job? Hell yes!! And if anyone had told me how bleak the situation was when i started training, I still would have done it. As a wise man said, if the odds are a million to one, there's still a chance. And I'm damn glad I took it. And if you're reading this and wondering whether to go for it - well, go figure!
If it wasn't in my blood i would have given it up. But it is in my blood, I've known all my life this is what I wanted to do. The dream of it is very different to the reality - in many ways worse, but in most ways simply different.
But there's something about the adrenaline rush as you pound down the runway in 150tons of metal, the flush of pleasure as you grease it down after a textbook approach, the feeling of omniscience as you look down on an entire country at night, the crystal clear starry nights, shooting stars, rainbows and bursting from murky overcast into glorious sunshine at 6.00am that stirs you inside like nothing else. And this on a daily basis!
I can live with early dark morning starts, long delays, CBs, windshear, tech problems, premenstrual hosties, psychotic passengers and erratic Spanish ATC because at the end of the day I AM AN AIRLINE PILOT and I've grafted all my life to get there. I may jump ship, but I'm not dumping this career! As long as nobody takes it away from me, I'm not going to give it up myself.
Do I really want to do this job? Hell yes!! And if anyone had told me how bleak the situation was when i started training, I still would have done it. As a wise man said, if the odds are a million to one, there's still a chance. And I'm damn glad I took it. And if you're reading this and wondering whether to go for it - well, go figure!