What are newbees supposed to do?
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What are newbees supposed to do?
It is becoming more and more tough for Newbees who have a CPL,multi IFRs to get into any flying jobs these days. After having to spend so much its a from pillar to post situation. Every airline wants Experience. So, Ok- but How can one get that Experience without getting a chance to get it?
Is there any airline that feels -OK lets set up a department and recruit LOw-Time pilots give them a stipend and let them build hours so they can have the minium requirement to enable them to be hired.
In my opinion this should now be made into a mandatory rule for all airlines in all countries to absorb their budding aspiring pilots to feel wanted and have confidence that they are a part of the pilot community and not shunted out like panhandlers. JUST BECAUSE they, due to no fault of theirs do not have the necessary hours or experience ( yeah it is a very idealistic way of thinking) but what the heck! why should they not be helped.
After all flying training schools are charging the earth, moon & stars and are dishing out pilots but what is the use of that piece of paper?
I think it is time these youngsters should be absorbed somewhere. afer all they have proved their abilities this far and have a legal rating.
They can have a tough selection board to weed out the chaff from the wheat so to speak, maybe ask them to put up some kind of security bond, whatever something should be done and FAST.
Maybe some retired Ex-pilots/ Instructor guys can start up such companies and help them out.
PPrune readers think about it, mull over it, give suggestions, and do something worthwhile.
Is there any airline that feels -OK lets set up a department and recruit LOw-Time pilots give them a stipend and let them build hours so they can have the minium requirement to enable them to be hired.
In my opinion this should now be made into a mandatory rule for all airlines in all countries to absorb their budding aspiring pilots to feel wanted and have confidence that they are a part of the pilot community and not shunted out like panhandlers. JUST BECAUSE they, due to no fault of theirs do not have the necessary hours or experience ( yeah it is a very idealistic way of thinking) but what the heck! why should they not be helped.
After all flying training schools are charging the earth, moon & stars and are dishing out pilots but what is the use of that piece of paper?
I think it is time these youngsters should be absorbed somewhere. afer all they have proved their abilities this far and have a legal rating.
They can have a tough selection board to weed out the chaff from the wheat so to speak, maybe ask them to put up some kind of security bond, whatever something should be done and FAST.
Maybe some retired Ex-pilots/ Instructor guys can start up such companies and help them out.
PPrune readers think about it, mull over it, give suggestions, and do something worthwhile.
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Recruiting
Whilst I am not without sympathy for your plight, you are, at the end of the day, dealing with market forces where the simple truth is that supply v demand is at work. The big bad world.
I think you will find that some UK turbo prop operators are recruiting, and for the more capable newly qualified pilot, jet operators are also recruiting - GB Air have some ex-Jerez customers in training as we speak.
Unless some form of training subsidy is paid by HMG, how can any trading company be forced through statute to provide training for pilots where an economic need does not exist?
Your training is in essence a selection board, which may result in the FTO recommending you to an airline. The airline in turn have their own selection process. At the moment, only the more capable are being taken on.
This was not always the case. Reason - supply v demand . Customers were walking out of Oxford in 1986, with a choice of employer to choose from. I saw it in action.
At the end of the day, there is very little regulation requiring FTO to "select" their customers. If they have the finances, and meet the minimum standards they, the customers are issued with a licence. The FTOs are there like any business to provide a service, and make a profit for their shareholders.
The bottom line is simple market forces with elastic and non elastic supply and demand curves. Anyway that is what Dr. Reekie taught me in Economics at Newcastle many moons ago.
The way forward would be for you as a newly qualified pilot to contact your MP and persuade him/her of your case. This process is effective. You only have to look at the SIMPSON PROPOSAL for duty hours etc where speaking to your local MP has started to have an impact upon the proposal.
If Easy do proceed as advertised with significant expansion, then the food chain at the buttom will provide for the newly qualified, as the FOs with some experience move up in turn.
The next few years could well prove to be interesting.
I think you will find that some UK turbo prop operators are recruiting, and for the more capable newly qualified pilot, jet operators are also recruiting - GB Air have some ex-Jerez customers in training as we speak.
Unless some form of training subsidy is paid by HMG, how can any trading company be forced through statute to provide training for pilots where an economic need does not exist?
Your training is in essence a selection board, which may result in the FTO recommending you to an airline. The airline in turn have their own selection process. At the moment, only the more capable are being taken on.
This was not always the case. Reason - supply v demand . Customers were walking out of Oxford in 1986, with a choice of employer to choose from. I saw it in action.
At the end of the day, there is very little regulation requiring FTO to "select" their customers. If they have the finances, and meet the minimum standards they, the customers are issued with a licence. The FTOs are there like any business to provide a service, and make a profit for their shareholders.
The bottom line is simple market forces with elastic and non elastic supply and demand curves. Anyway that is what Dr. Reekie taught me in Economics at Newcastle many moons ago.
The way forward would be for you as a newly qualified pilot to contact your MP and persuade him/her of your case. This process is effective. You only have to look at the SIMPSON PROPOSAL for duty hours etc where speaking to your local MP has started to have an impact upon the proposal.
If Easy do proceed as advertised with significant expansion, then the food chain at the buttom will provide for the newly qualified, as the FOs with some experience move up in turn.
The next few years could well prove to be interesting.
Last edited by ecj; 16th Sep 2003 at 16:30.
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Who was it who told you that the world owed you a living ? Because they were wrong ! Others have done it before you. It should be made a mandatory rule that airlines cosset their aspiring pilots should it ? Yes well good luck.
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Good idea
Good Idea,
I'm all for a new law making the airlines recruit low hour guy's.
But I would like to make one amendment to it.
"All the airlines in Europe have to provide me with an offer of
employment when I finish my training, or to be more fair, within 10 days of it"
Well, to be realistic, no ever told me it was going to be a fair and easy ride
I'm all for a new law making the airlines recruit low hour guy's.
But I would like to make one amendment to it.
"All the airlines in Europe have to provide me with an offer of
employment when I finish my training, or to be more fair, within 10 days of it"
Well, to be realistic, no ever told me it was going to be a fair and easy ride
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Is there any chance that when someone posts something on this site, in desperation and frustration about the lack of jobs for young pilots who have shelled out £40,000+ to sit on their arse and write letters and open , when airlines can be bothered sending them, rejection letters and try to speak to people on the phone for advice or online for advice as to where to go next, is there any chance that people could be realistic and pleasant. I am sick of reading on these forums, cocky answers, put downs, nasty responses and alike from ponses already in a position, spare a thought, if you can for those of us who are trying to get to where you are. What we need is advi
Why do it if it's not fun?
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Smarcol,
The majority of us on the Wannabes forum are not "already in a position" - otherwise we wouldn't be on the Wannabes forum. We are either researching or in the process of training, or else looking for a job.
However, the vast majority of us have done enough research to understand the risks involved. And when we find ourselves being rejected time after time, we don't (or won't, for those of us for whom this is in the future) complain about the fact that we're in a situation which was entirely predictable, and which we decided was a fair price to pay given our personal circumstances. Instead, we will persevere, knowing that those who want it the most, and who persevere the most, will get it eventually, even though it won't be an easy road.
Those of us who have put this much thought into the process have very little sympathy for others who, apparently, have in the order of £30-£60K to spend without feeling it necessary to do any prior research, or who have chosen to ignore the results of their research and then seem surprised by what they find at the end of the road.
FFF
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The majority of us on the Wannabes forum are not "already in a position" - otherwise we wouldn't be on the Wannabes forum. We are either researching or in the process of training, or else looking for a job.
However, the vast majority of us have done enough research to understand the risks involved. And when we find ourselves being rejected time after time, we don't (or won't, for those of us for whom this is in the future) complain about the fact that we're in a situation which was entirely predictable, and which we decided was a fair price to pay given our personal circumstances. Instead, we will persevere, knowing that those who want it the most, and who persevere the most, will get it eventually, even though it won't be an easy road.
Those of us who have put this much thought into the process have very little sympathy for others who, apparently, have in the order of £30-£60K to spend without feeling it necessary to do any prior research, or who have chosen to ignore the results of their research and then seem surprised by what they find at the end of the road.
FFF
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I'm in full agreement with FFF. I understand that it's easy to lose your sense of humour in this game, but it was our decision to do this...never forget that. There is obviously an over supply of pilots at the moment, a situation that is likely to change.
I qualified earlier in the year and now work in the industry, paying the bills but sadly not flying yet. Sitting less patiently now, as I can see first hand the market for pilots improving, which is surely good news for all of us.
The advice that I have been given so far, and I don't mean to preach, is to network as much as you can! Also, do anything flying/aviation related as it may open the door. Go the extra mile (quite literally) to fly in locations or aircraft that the majority may not consider. Put yourself out. If you really want it, you'll make it happen. I have seen the most flexible, canny and determined pilots succeed. Good luck!
I qualified earlier in the year and now work in the industry, paying the bills but sadly not flying yet. Sitting less patiently now, as I can see first hand the market for pilots improving, which is surely good news for all of us.
The advice that I have been given so far, and I don't mean to preach, is to network as much as you can! Also, do anything flying/aviation related as it may open the door. Go the extra mile (quite literally) to fly in locations or aircraft that the majority may not consider. Put yourself out. If you really want it, you'll make it happen. I have seen the most flexible, canny and determined pilots succeed. Good luck!
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Smartcol- Thanks.-- as for the rest of you thanks as well for your very NEGATIVE posts. Seems none of you were ever in that situation the way your posts read- insensitive and crude maybe you had some grand daddys to take care and get you where you are today & to those who were so quick to jump and think it was a new wannabe who had posted the topic, U R very wrong. The same goes for the poster Flying for fun- Read the post again before responding in future.
It was seeing, the plight of so many youngsters who are going through the catch 22 that made me think. and put my thoughts on this message board.
The fraternity of pilots unlike other professionals used to be that of helping, guiding, advising, encouraging lot and not throwing a wet rag on them., guess those were the days when we had them and those who are still around have yet to read the post.
Surely if those of you who had no worthwhile contribution to add, your professionalism should have kept your fingers away from the keyboard.
It was seeing, the plight of so many youngsters who are going through the catch 22 that made me think. and put my thoughts on this message board.
The fraternity of pilots unlike other professionals used to be that of helping, guiding, advising, encouraging lot and not throwing a wet rag on them., guess those were the days when we had them and those who are still around have yet to read the post.
Surely if those of you who had no worthwhile contribution to add, your professionalism should have kept your fingers away from the keyboard.
Why do it if it's not fun?
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Moonraker,
You are, as is everyone else, entitled to your opinion. It just happens to be different to most other posters so far on this thread.
I'm not quite sure why you've singled me out for a special mention. If it was because what I said in my second post on this thread doesn't fit your personal circumstances, then perhaps you should note that the post in question was actually a reply to Smartcol, not you. Smartcol raised some issues which were different (although related) to those that you raised, and my reply was entirely appropriate (and not directed at anyone in particular - especially not at Smartcol nor you). Perhaps you should follow your own advice when you say: "Read the post again before responding in future".
As for "those who were so quick to jump and think it was a new wannabe who had posted the topic", maybe you should make life easier for us. Your profile doesn't reveal anything about your flying experience. When you say things like "The fraternity of pilots unlike other professionals used to be that of....", and talking about "the plight of so many youngsters", you sound like an old pro. Which is a little strange, since just 6 months ago you described yourself as "Pilot from Canada seeking employment... 300 hrs. TT" I assume you've since found yourself work? It's a tough world out there, and if you've made it then congratulations are in order.
I wish you good luck in your quest to help Wannabes. But please forgive me if I'm more inclined to rely on my hard work than your idealistic views to get me a job.
FFF
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You are, as is everyone else, entitled to your opinion. It just happens to be different to most other posters so far on this thread.
I'm not quite sure why you've singled me out for a special mention. If it was because what I said in my second post on this thread doesn't fit your personal circumstances, then perhaps you should note that the post in question was actually a reply to Smartcol, not you. Smartcol raised some issues which were different (although related) to those that you raised, and my reply was entirely appropriate (and not directed at anyone in particular - especially not at Smartcol nor you). Perhaps you should follow your own advice when you say: "Read the post again before responding in future".
As for "those who were so quick to jump and think it was a new wannabe who had posted the topic", maybe you should make life easier for us. Your profile doesn't reveal anything about your flying experience. When you say things like "The fraternity of pilots unlike other professionals used to be that of....", and talking about "the plight of so many youngsters", you sound like an old pro. Which is a little strange, since just 6 months ago you described yourself as "Pilot from Canada seeking employment... 300 hrs. TT" I assume you've since found yourself work? It's a tough world out there, and if you've made it then congratulations are in order.
I wish you good luck in your quest to help Wannabes. But please forgive me if I'm more inclined to rely on my hard work than your idealistic views to get me a job.
FFF
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How can one get that Experience without getting a chance to get it?
Is there any airline that feels -OK lets set up a department and recruit LOw-Time pilots give them a stipend and let them build hours so they can have the minium requirement to enable them to be hired.
In my opinion this should now be made into a mandatory rule for all airlines in all countries to absorb their budding aspiring pilots to feel wanted and have confidence that they are a part of the pilot community and not shunted out like panhandlers.
JUST BECAUSE they, due to no fault of theirs do not have the necessary hours or experience ( yeah it is a very idealistic way of thinking) but what the heck! why should they not be helped.
After all flying training schools are charging the earth, moon & stars and are dishing out pilots but what is the use of that piece of paper?
I think it is time these youngsters should be absorbed somewhere. afer all they have proved their abilities this far and have a legal rating.
They can have a tough selection board to weed out the chaff from the wheat so to speak, maybe ask them to put up some kind of security bond, whatever something should be done and FAST.
Maybe some retired Ex-pilots/ Instructor guys can start up such companies and help them out.
PPrune readers think about it, mull over it, give suggestions, and do something worthwhile.
So Moonraker, don't take offence, I have given my thoughts to your ideas as you solicited. However, I am not surprised at some of the remarks that have been posted. I think most people on here saw your ideas as a little niaive, however well intentioned. It all comes down to economics. If you really want to do something then make sure the idea is refreshing and allows for maximum gain for minimal outlay, for the AIRLINES and you will become the next GURU of all Wannabes!
PP
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Just my two pennies worth.
It is all very well arguing about supply and demand, market forces, etc. However, I am of the firm belief that there are fewer people trying to get into aviation because it is so indifferent to trainees. This will surely result in another skills vacuum in the not too distant future. Some might think that is good for their prospects, it will be, for about three to ten years before you face redunancy.
These airline induced oscilations that have been evident for the last 20-30 years are partly down to how difficult it is to respond to the need for pilots when the demand is there and how remote such a career seems when there is no demand.
These organisations need to aid and bring on those people they see as being of the right character and ability with a view to creating a stable industry. This boom and bust mentality is no good for anybody in the industry, never mind the pilots.
It is all very well arguing about supply and demand, market forces, etc. However, I am of the firm belief that there are fewer people trying to get into aviation because it is so indifferent to trainees. This will surely result in another skills vacuum in the not too distant future. Some might think that is good for their prospects, it will be, for about three to ten years before you face redunancy.
These airline induced oscilations that have been evident for the last 20-30 years are partly down to how difficult it is to respond to the need for pilots when the demand is there and how remote such a career seems when there is no demand.
These organisations need to aid and bring on those people they see as being of the right character and ability with a view to creating a stable industry. This boom and bust mentality is no good for anybody in the industry, never mind the pilots.
Good lord - Smartcol back again. I'm still not convinced that you aren't a wind up merchant.
++ Is there any chance that when someone posts something on this site, in desperation and frustration about the lack of jobs for young pilots
Umm, we've all been there and got the T Shirt - thanks. Want to see a stack of rejection letters and failed sponsorship applications? I've got dozens and so have most pilots. And why should we sympathise with young pilots - its the middle ages Wannabes with family commitment who warrant the greatest sympathy. Arguably.
++who have shelled out £40,000+ to sit on their arse and write letters and open , when airlines can be bothered sending them, rejection letters
Well frankly if the sum of your job seeking attempts is sitting on your backside firing off a stream of mail merged covering letters then you don't deserve and won't get a sniff of a job under the present, or indeed, past climates. If airlines don't advertise for 200hr Frzn ATPL pilots then don't expect them to employ someone to deal with their applications and buy stamps to send letters of apology.
++ and try to speak to people on the phone for advice or online for advice as to where to go next, is there any chance that people could be realistic and pleasant.
Realistic, yes, pleasant - maybe depending on mood. People on the other end of the phone are at work, with bosses, deadlines and a stack of work to be getting on with. Unsolicited applications come WAY down the priority list. As for here - hell - 5 years ago there was no here and Wannabes were in a deep dark hole with nobody to talk to. Which is why PPRuNe Wannabe became such a major part of PPRuNe. Be grateful and don't be precious.
++I am sick of reading on these forums, cocky answers, put downs, nasty responses and alike from ponses already in a position
Well you ain't enjoying this post then are you? And if you want to call people ponses then make sure you never bump into them in the future.
++spare a thought, if you can for those of us who are trying to get to where you are. What we need is advi
What the hell do you think the dozens of worthy contributors to this forum do ever week year in year out?!? You can get a lot of help and advice from PPRuNe. You just have to take a very different approach from the one you seem to take, slagging off your flying instructors, slagging off the airlines and slagging off the pilots who contribute to this forum.
Anyway, good luck,
WWW
++ Is there any chance that when someone posts something on this site, in desperation and frustration about the lack of jobs for young pilots
Umm, we've all been there and got the T Shirt - thanks. Want to see a stack of rejection letters and failed sponsorship applications? I've got dozens and so have most pilots. And why should we sympathise with young pilots - its the middle ages Wannabes with family commitment who warrant the greatest sympathy. Arguably.
++who have shelled out £40,000+ to sit on their arse and write letters and open , when airlines can be bothered sending them, rejection letters
Well frankly if the sum of your job seeking attempts is sitting on your backside firing off a stream of mail merged covering letters then you don't deserve and won't get a sniff of a job under the present, or indeed, past climates. If airlines don't advertise for 200hr Frzn ATPL pilots then don't expect them to employ someone to deal with their applications and buy stamps to send letters of apology.
++ and try to speak to people on the phone for advice or online for advice as to where to go next, is there any chance that people could be realistic and pleasant.
Realistic, yes, pleasant - maybe depending on mood. People on the other end of the phone are at work, with bosses, deadlines and a stack of work to be getting on with. Unsolicited applications come WAY down the priority list. As for here - hell - 5 years ago there was no here and Wannabes were in a deep dark hole with nobody to talk to. Which is why PPRuNe Wannabe became such a major part of PPRuNe. Be grateful and don't be precious.
++I am sick of reading on these forums, cocky answers, put downs, nasty responses and alike from ponses already in a position
Well you ain't enjoying this post then are you? And if you want to call people ponses then make sure you never bump into them in the future.
++spare a thought, if you can for those of us who are trying to get to where you are. What we need is advi
What the hell do you think the dozens of worthy contributors to this forum do ever week year in year out?!? You can get a lot of help and advice from PPRuNe. You just have to take a very different approach from the one you seem to take, slagging off your flying instructors, slagging off the airlines and slagging off the pilots who contribute to this forum.
Anyway, good luck,
WWW
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Round and round we go....
Is it me or is every other thread on Wannabees now "Boo, hoo airlines won't give me a job", "Sob, sob I spent loads of money", "Blah, blah is it worth it?" etcetera, etbloodycetara. Even sensible and well thought out replies from eg, FFF are given short shrift.
It's very very simple. If you want to make money, work for yourself. If you want to fly, do what it takes, using an educated guess as to what the market will be like when you've finished your training. All the information is out there on the Electric super motorway, read the sensible posts on PPrune and work it out for yourself. In some ways I hope you do make it to the selection process with me, because whiny children are not going to be difficult to beat.
Lord have mercy.
Is it me or is every other thread on Wannabees now "Boo, hoo airlines won't give me a job", "Sob, sob I spent loads of money", "Blah, blah is it worth it?" etcetera, etbloodycetara. Even sensible and well thought out replies from eg, FFF are given short shrift.
It's very very simple. If you want to make money, work for yourself. If you want to fly, do what it takes, using an educated guess as to what the market will be like when you've finished your training. All the information is out there on the Electric super motorway, read the sensible posts on PPrune and work it out for yourself. In some ways I hope you do make it to the selection process with me, because whiny children are not going to be difficult to beat.
Lord have mercy.
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WWW.
Yet again you manage to surpass all other statements of sheer arrogance with your own gleaming version.
I am well aware of the current predicament, and I am well aware of what you need to do and what you need not do in the present climate.
I also understand that airlines have their own priorities and quite frankly that is not us, the low time pilot looking for a start. Which, in my opinion is their right. However there is a way about things. The way you treat people affects many things, when you speak to someone they are representing that company, it does not make marketable sense to be as disinterested as some airlines are. All it takes is some courtesey, thanks but no thanks. Piss off is not all that pleasant.
Also, when I or any other colleagues post something on this site, we are posting in order to gain advice from the likes of you and others who know better than us. I do not prophess to know better than anyone else, hence why I ask those who may know and I share my ideas. I do not expect to be blasted just because someone else has heard it before or they think I am wrong and they are right. I haven't heard it before !
As far as your nonsense about calling people ponses and not bumping into them in future, grow up.
Yet again you manage to surpass all other statements of sheer arrogance with your own gleaming version.
I am well aware of the current predicament, and I am well aware of what you need to do and what you need not do in the present climate.
I also understand that airlines have their own priorities and quite frankly that is not us, the low time pilot looking for a start. Which, in my opinion is their right. However there is a way about things. The way you treat people affects many things, when you speak to someone they are representing that company, it does not make marketable sense to be as disinterested as some airlines are. All it takes is some courtesey, thanks but no thanks. Piss off is not all that pleasant.
Also, when I or any other colleagues post something on this site, we are posting in order to gain advice from the likes of you and others who know better than us. I do not prophess to know better than anyone else, hence why I ask those who may know and I share my ideas. I do not expect to be blasted just because someone else has heard it before or they think I am wrong and they are right. I haven't heard it before !
As far as your nonsense about calling people ponses and not bumping into them in future, grow up.
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Thread's such as this always amaze me. There seems to be no end to Wannabe's posting about how unfair it is that they can't get a job as a low hours commercial pilot.
I am a Wannabe, but I have to say my expectations are entirely different to some that demonstrate their angst.
Having taken 10 years to raise the capital to start flying training, I do not feel that anyone within or any part of the system owes me anything. I could have invested the money elsewhere, but it is my decision to pursue my ambitions, and I am fully aware that I am most certainly not alone. In some respects, I feel quite privileged (spelling?) as there are millions of others who will never have the chance to reach their aspirations.
Furthermore, commercial aviation is one of the most cutthroat businesses around and invariably it is run by accountants and investors. It has no guilt, or emotion, just the eternal drive to survive and compete. The only way to achieve this is to ensure that it is competative, not likely if it is in-efficient. The lure of aviation is that there will always be more pilots or aspiring pilots than jobs. I would hazard a guess that the last thing an airline really wants is hunderds or even thousands of CV's on the doorstep every month, particularly when it is not recruiting. Unfair it may be, but it would occupy too much of a valuable empolyee's time to even read them to be efficient. To put it another way, there are a lot of people out there who dedicated their youth to football and will proudly declare they had trials with X,Y or Z. I have yet to meet one who believes that the clubs "owed" them a living.
I have no expectations concerning employment. My expectations are that I will spend £30k+ in attaining my licences and that at the moment I stand no chance of an airline job. That is why I am looking to instructing in order to fly, gain experience and make contacts. I like the idea of air taxi work, but again I don't expect anyone to give me a job just on the basis of having a licence. There are jobs out there, just in the less glamorous side of aviation and in the current climate the most sought after requisite is experience which these jobs can provide.
Personally I feel that my approach is realistic, whereas I wonder how many people are influenced by the glossy brochures and sales techniques of the major training providers.
Obs cop
I am a Wannabe, but I have to say my expectations are entirely different to some that demonstrate their angst.
Having taken 10 years to raise the capital to start flying training, I do not feel that anyone within or any part of the system owes me anything. I could have invested the money elsewhere, but it is my decision to pursue my ambitions, and I am fully aware that I am most certainly not alone. In some respects, I feel quite privileged (spelling?) as there are millions of others who will never have the chance to reach their aspirations.
Furthermore, commercial aviation is one of the most cutthroat businesses around and invariably it is run by accountants and investors. It has no guilt, or emotion, just the eternal drive to survive and compete. The only way to achieve this is to ensure that it is competative, not likely if it is in-efficient. The lure of aviation is that there will always be more pilots or aspiring pilots than jobs. I would hazard a guess that the last thing an airline really wants is hunderds or even thousands of CV's on the doorstep every month, particularly when it is not recruiting. Unfair it may be, but it would occupy too much of a valuable empolyee's time to even read them to be efficient. To put it another way, there are a lot of people out there who dedicated their youth to football and will proudly declare they had trials with X,Y or Z. I have yet to meet one who believes that the clubs "owed" them a living.
I have no expectations concerning employment. My expectations are that I will spend £30k+ in attaining my licences and that at the moment I stand no chance of an airline job. That is why I am looking to instructing in order to fly, gain experience and make contacts. I like the idea of air taxi work, but again I don't expect anyone to give me a job just on the basis of having a licence. There are jobs out there, just in the less glamorous side of aviation and in the current climate the most sought after requisite is experience which these jobs can provide.
Personally I feel that my approach is realistic, whereas I wonder how many people are influenced by the glossy brochures and sales techniques of the major training providers.
Obs cop