NOTAM site 'upgrade'
 

Access to the plain text NOTAM files on the AIS website has been cut off today in favour of their new, and rather complex, web interface.

That means no simple list of NOTAMs which can be printed off for the notice board or the cockpit, and it also means that the wonderful NOTAMplot no longer works, since it relied on these files.

Apparently the address to register your views on the 'upgrade' is [email protected]

This change has been done with very little warning as far as I can see. This afternoon, just when I needed urgent access to NOTAMS, it won't let me in until my registration has been accepted. What a wonderful contribution to flight safety.:confused:

I have written to NATS to ask why they did not continue the old service until we have had a chance to sign up to the new one. The Met Office did this when they recently upgraded their website.

Is this the attitude we can expect to users of NATS services? :mad:

Maybe they should have issued a Notam :D

There was a link on the old website telling you all about the new one for a couple of months at least! I used the new one last weekend and thought it was pretty good, especially the route planning bit (sorry, too busy to find the links)

It would also appear that the registration server can only cope with five applicants at a time - Jx can't get in either:(

I fould this nugget yesterday - don't get too excited when you finally get in either. Getting an en route notam list is too much of a hassle to be worth it. The form it wants filled in is flaky and too complicated. I just went to my copy of NOTAMPlot and got the info I needed in a fraction of the time.

If ever there was an award for contributions to flight safety, my vote would go to this excellent piece of software - this is no commercial plug 'cos its free and everyone should use it.

bcfc sadly NotamPlot won't work anymore as the underlying text files are not available from AIS.

Have this on reasonably good authority -- the author ;)

Sorry to p1ss on your chips.

Oh b*****ks!

It work yesterday, now it doesn't . Thanks NATS, another leap backwards in flight safety.

Now, back to my soggy chips :eek:

And now this disclaimer
 

I have noticed today they have snuck into the FAQ a descripition on how to use the new site. I have read it and at least it answers some of the questions and does help to explain what to do- altough I agree with the problem of rapid turn off of the old delivery mechanism espically as on the Flyer forum someone is suggesting there are flaws in the delivery of the data.

Given that, how can they put this up?
If they are not responsible for the accuracy of their publications then who is????

I asked about compatability with NOTAMplot;

Got

"I cannot comment on third party products"

From

[email protected].

This is a major step backwards. There are some European and American sites which had the old style, anyone know of a good one? It may be posible to get NOTAMplot to work with them and kick Nats out!

Rod1

Rod1

Try:

http://ippc.nais.luftfartsverket.no/...erodrome1.html

I can't take credit for this pointer, someone on FlyerList posted it today... (If they're here they'll know who they are) ;)

That disclaimer's not just an idle threat either - they really do miss stuff out you need :(

Last Saturday did a Le Touquet run from Elstree and logged into the new site to try it out. Put in all the details and printed out the 18 pages. Undaunted, I waded through it all and couldn't find much to affect me, but as there was so much there I decided to just have a quick check using NotamPlot just in case I'd missed something important. I was horrified to see that just off my track I'd missed a PJE (Gillingham AB 5123 - H3862/02 in case anyone's interested!). I was really disconcerted - I was sure I'd checked reasonably carefully so I went back through it again to see how I could have missed it. Fairly simple explanation - it just wasn't there :eek:.

How can that be??? It was scheduled for exactly the time I was returning and if I'd been one mile off track to the east I'd have passed straight through it.

I wouldn't like to jump to conclusions from just one example, but it really seems to me that this change is measurably dangerous and has a significant chance of causing a serious accident.

Quite apart from the missing NOTAMs, producing 18 pages of warnings, almost all of which are irrelevant, can only hinder pilots from carrying out a proper check. There's already been a thread on the OnTrack website about people not bothering to check for TRAs before setting out. Now it's been made even more difficult to check, this problem can only get worse. And if the service also omits NOTAMs (and even admits it might in the disclaimer) such pilots are starting to have a valid excuse for not bothering to look first.

This "improvement" really has been poorly carried out.

What a load of c***p NATS hjave concocted! It bears all the hallmarks of being created by a committee - moreover a committee of GCSE rejects. The help pages are useless, there are no FAQ's that I could find, it is the most un-user-friendly site I have come accross. This from the b*****dy organisation that is about to come cap in hand to the taxpayer. Let the Swedes do it for us!

Such a shame, when a smooth and helpful bit of kit like Notamplot had just come along. W8888888rs !

Just been taking a look at the Notams for a NAVEX tomorrow courtesy of the new 'improved' AIS site...ugh!:mad: what a dogs dinner the've made of the site.

It clearly smacks of a some bright spark cooking up a bunch of good ideas and slapping them together in a completely rubbish implementation. I did manage to figure out how it worked - I think - but if its not intuitive its surely a hindrance to flight safety. I can't say with confidence whether the correct/complete information is presented, which is worrying.

Oh yes, and someone seems to have forgotten to do any kind of performance testing on the damned thing :confused: when I eventually got into the site it crawled along.

The idea is right; what they're trying to do is right.

Only ... by the time they got round to it, Ian had produced NotamPlot and we were all blissfully happy. Now, they've improved the Notam site (they have!) but killed NotamPlot in the process.

There's a lot of work to be done before the AIS site is useable. I put in a route for tomorrow, telling it my route, VFR, not above 5000 feet. I got Upper Airways NOTAMS in the screed, for heavens sakes!

The NOTAM list started with a list of the 50-odd NOTAMS that are relevant but NOT included in the briefing. Really inspires confidence, that does.

I waded through the first four or five pages, and didn't see anything that looked relevant. After that, it was all a blur.

Give them time. Meanwhile, pray there aren't any important bits of information on page 13 of 25, or any important things they didn't get round to NOTAMming.

I sent the attached to NATS yesterday

As a PPL who flies from a smaller airfield, where the pre-flight briefing facilities are moderately basic, I have relied on self-briefing using a utility called NOTAM Plot, which downloads live data from the AIS Web Site into a readily viewable graphic display. This enables rapid assimilation of which NOTAMs are relevant to my proposed trip and permits me to concentrate on detailed review of relevant NOTAMs.

With the launch of the new NOTAM Web site, this facility has now been removed as the NOTAM Text files are no longer available. I have not yet registered with your new site, but I have been advised by others who have that that obtaining a list of NOTAMs applicable to the proposed route is complex and that the end product is, at best, of limited usefulness.

May I request that the plain text facility be permitted to remain in place at least until all the teething problems with the new site are resolved and users have gained some basic level of familiarity with the new system.The bulletins that used to be provided under the old web-site are no longer
available.

The following response has been received:

Please find attached a document to help you with your briefings.

A temporary Account:

Username: AISTEMP
Password: password

has been made available until the 20th September while people register themselves.

People are now getting a 'Full' briefing. While that might be a shock to the system, I'm sorry, that is what is going on and is relevant to the flying community.

People are doing so many differing forms of flying it would be dangerous if we were to continue to assume that we know what to restrict and what not to restrict. The web-site does allow you to use the tools available to filter the NOTAM to the type of flying activity you undertake.

Out of interest, a friend saw a good one on Wednesday afternoon (21 Aug 02): during a display at Weymouth seafront, which was scheduled to include the Sparra's, a Cessna of some variety pootled straight across Weymouth Bay whilst a Harrier was in the middle of a display routine. The visual estimates of miss distances were around 2-300m. The reg of the Cessna was noted and I have looked it up - it was registered to a Bournemouth Club. Someone obviously didn't do a very good job of reading *his* NOTAMS!
;) :)

Here is a transcript of what I have just experienced, and duly reported to the "AIS Supervisor".

Having just used your new briefing website I have a few comments I would like to make on the service offered.

We are planning to fly a navigational exercise tonight Luton - Stansted - Clacton - Thetford - Cambridge - Luton. I tried both a normal route briefing and a "narrow route briefing". I restricted the flight level to FL050 maximum along the route. Of the 6 pages of NOTAMs that printed out, 2 affected me. No en-route aerodromes were included unless I expressed them in the box (surely if the system knows the route and will be picking NOTAMs from a 10nm radius it could include them). I got NOTAMs regarding UP620 and UT7 Brest Control, and Plymouth Military Radar unavailable, 8.33KHz spacing (in effect since 99 anyway), and use of STS/ indicators in IFR plans when I specified VFR only. All in all, this is not good. I have found no NOTAMs about PJE or kite launching or rocket launching, when I know the route will be routing near them.

Until you switched the old website off I was able to use a fantastic bit of freeware called NotamPlot. This took the A1 and A8 bulletins and drew them on a map so you could visually see where the restrictions were. Notam Plot is the website for this. Now A1 and A8 bulletins are not available this software does not work, and I feel that the current service offered by NATS is a severe degradation in terms of quality and potential flight safety.

This is not what I'd expect. I've only recently realised just how many little NOTAMs there are out there to be checked, and this website seems to take all that away again...

(Edited coz I got the URL wrong....!)

:) :D :p :D :)

Just sent the following e-mail
 

This is the most successful attept at degrading flight safety that I have ever seen!!!!!!!!!!!

Just to test it I put in a VFR route from EGPT where I fly to EGPH. I got no info for Perth (not unusual) and two notams for Edinburgh both of which were relevent. I then got a whole load of utter drivel about 8.33 radios, Kinloss LARS (73 miles in the opposite direction for god sake!) and to cap it all, some info on QNH's around oilrigs in the north sea.

No doubt you have been told before, and I'm sure you will be told again, "Notamplot" was excellent very quick and easy. You have designed a site that is difficult to use and far too slow to use. I and I suspect many others will just not bother to use your site in its current form. Is that what you want?

Give us back the A1 and A8 bulletins and let us use Notamplot until you get this site user friendly. (A1 & A8 are still available on MARS so it must be possible).

:confused:

Checking 10nm either side of a track from EGHR to EGHH it gives me information about Goodwood and Bournemouth, but then goes on about the Welshpool NDB, Lydd VOR and UP620 and UT7 Brest Control before several important NOTAMs about Cowes on the IoW. :rolleyes:

Scrolling down further it is even giving me information about Carlisle, Campbeltown and a Red Arrows TRA in Clacton!!! :confused: :confused:

Apart from that, I agree with Keef. Good idea, bad implementation and so s...l...o...w...

I am planning to fly to EGTU on Sunday and, so far, I have not been able to get a single NOTAM. I enter all the requested fields and then the screen goes to >INPUT and then does nothing for about two minutes.

Am I being too impatient? Should I wait longer?

FAQ seems only to link to a site for unlicensed airfields. I have always been diligent about checking NOTAMS before flying and I am beginning to feel very insecure now.

I am not particularly computer wise and find the HELP fairly unhelpful - under Brief Id, all it says it must not exceed 3 7. What does that mean?

I agree that this is a singularly effective contribution to a reduction in air safety.

Lydd and Breast the on the first page for a trip from Blackpool to Humberside :rolleyes:

email on the way ......

LF :mad:

For those who, like me, have been struggling with this new website I have discovered that it doesn't like places like EGTU. If you enter this as your destination it just sulks without telling you why.

Entered EGTE instead and it worked. I had previously spoken with a very nice man at NATS and he couldn't tell me why it wouldn't work. I explained exactly what I was doing and he couldn't get it to work either. I am waiting for him to fax me with the answer.

He did agree that this was not the best bit of software ever written. Hopefully they will sort it out quickly.

I can't even register. Got told I would receive an e-mail when my account was set up. Still nothing after 2 hours.

DDC, that's nothing...

I applied for my account > 24 hours ago :(

Did you apply for just UK or multiple FIRs? Dunno if that makes a difference.

I just 'borrowed' Circuit Basher's temporary login. Currently composing a 'disgusted of Chichester' e-mail to let them know what I think of their efforts....

The change has been on the cards for months now. One would have hoped for a better replacement system than the text file.

I have also struggled with the form, finding that a lot of background knowledge is recquired in order to fill it in. Particulary narked with the free text box called "route". What goes there?

I have seen similiar systems in operation in towers so I guess this is where the "model" comes from. However, we are not ATC bods who have been trained in such systems and in depth terminology, we are pilots.

I doubt that the relationship between NATS and programmer is an understanding one, so that the comprehension of the problem did not deliver a usable, full-featured solution for the end-user, i.e. the pilot. This smacks of a slightly botched, proprietory system to me. It all boils down to giving what the user wants, which needs to be identified first by talking to them. I fear here we have the age old problem of the programmers interpretation of what NATS stipulated.

Surely we should be living in the age of open, transparent systems now?

Having met Ian Fallon, a GA pilot, and author of NotamPlot, he should be given a consultancy job on this. Even if Ian isn't available, I'm sure NATS could have sourced a developer who is both into flying and IT. It appears that there are a lot of us about :D

I doubt that a return to the text NOTAM file will happen. I gather that was hand-written and humans always favour automation in order to save time. So, I hope to see a fast improvement in the service now that NATS know the problems. (hopefully, they'll listen and act on our comments). Finally, I think they have released this too early and shoudl have contacted a small group of pilots to BETA test in order to iron out problems like logins and user issues, rather than having a large amount of disgruntled people emailing them.

Rustle

I only applied for the UK FIR.

DDC said:

Not that then :p

Still, we should keep this in perspective:

It cannot have gone hundreds of millions over budget
It cannot have been delivered 6 years late

So they are getting better at this IT lark ;)

No fax from NATS yet. But I've just remembered that I will be drinking with a software engineer tonight. And guess who he works for? Yes! NATS!!!. Boy, the drinks and the jokes are going to be on him.:D

Would it be worth sending NATS the link to this particular pprune topic so they can see first hand our disgruntled comments?


And I agree with Bluerobin that the author of NOTAM plot should certainly have been given a consulting role on this project, and an MBE for services to aviation whilst we're at it................

As a GA pilot with little money / time I tend not to fly for more than an hour and a half at a time. Notam plot made it easy for me to have a quick look at the local area to check that there was nothing to conflict. My initial exploration of the new site would suggest that I'm now going to have to dedicate significantly more time to my flight planning with little confidence that the results are accurate.

BBDO, that assumes they have browsers which is altogether not apparent :rolleyes:

Sent them the link at midday today. No response yet. Similar comments on all the other BB’s

I find it hard to believe they could do this so badly.

Rod1

May I suggest that all disgruntled AIS/NATS website users register their dismay at:

http://www.flyontrack.co.uk/

They have a thread about this too...

I didn't realise the Notam site had changed (haven't done a lot of flying recently) and tried to access it yesterday morning for a flight yesterday afternoon. 24 hours on I'm still waiting for my registration, so it gets a big thumbs down from me. I was glad to read about the site's reaction to EGTU. That would really have stumped me. Guess that's another big thumbs down then. Wonder how many other airfields are ignored. So if the text is no longer available, which explains why it's no longer on the notice board at the club, what do those people who don't have computers/internet access do? If not enough people bothered with Notams before fewer will now. Is this supposed to be an improvement?

Oh dear. I wish that I could say something nice about the new scheme, because obviously a lot of time and effort has gone into it. It does seem to have demonstrated all of the mistakes
that the rest of the IT world knows about and tries to avoid, like:

INADEQUATE warning of change

INSUFFICIENT beta testing

ABSENCE of parallel running during the transition

LACK of consultation with the end users.

OK, so I'm not the typical GA user. I fly balloons for pleasure and my typical flight planning is necessarily biased towards the met and planned track. But I always checked the NOTAMS because it made for good airmanship.

An example: A few weeks ago the text version threw up the fact that the Red Arrows were doing a display at Halton which is close enough to my area for a "heads up" from me! If I'm not flying a predicted track from ICAO airfield to airfield there doesn't seem much in it for me and hence not a lot of point in even looking. As others have said, it doesn't do a lot for my perception of air safety. I'll just have to rely on being highly visible to others....

I did a search on the www.nats.co.uk site for "NOTAMS" and got "no matches were found for notams"!
Does that help explain something?
Carlito

Yeah, it means you're looking at the corporate site instead of the AIS one :p

NATS AIS Site

It just got better ;)

I have been trying since 10:15L (0915Z) but the site is completely unreachable now...

Well done :mad:

We've a similar set of comments coming into our website at www.flyontrack.co.uk and you're very welcome to join in.

We've also had direct e-mail from the NATS supervisor answering some comments; he's clearly busy but give him your honest feedback - this is obviously a prototype which will need upgrading.

We're gathering ideas to help reduce infringements and the availability and readability of NOTAMS (and AICs etc etc) is an active area for improvement.

There's several threads going on our open forum page on this subject - keep sending your comments in by whatever means and you will make a difference!!

By the way, if you have any thoughts on NOTAM layout and readability now's the time to get them in while NOTAMS are under scrutiny.

Remember you're the customer - register your opinion & suggest improvements.

DE

Flyontrack:
Can you post those comments here or on your website?