NOTAM site 'upgrade'
Carbonfibre-based lifeform
Thread Starter
Join Date: Mar 2002
Location: London
Posts: 747
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
NOTAM site 'upgrade'
Access to the plain text NOTAM files on the AIS website has been cut off today in favour of their new, and rather complex, web interface.
That means no simple list of NOTAMs which can be printed off for the notice board or the cockpit, and it also means that the wonderful NOTAMplot no longer works, since it relied on these files.
Apparently the address to register your views on the 'upgrade' is [email protected]
That means no simple list of NOTAMs which can be printed off for the notice board or the cockpit, and it also means that the wonderful NOTAMplot no longer works, since it relied on these files.
Apparently the address to register your views on the 'upgrade' is [email protected]
This change has been done with very little warning as far as I can see. This afternoon, just when I needed urgent access to NOTAMS, it won't let me in until my registration has been accepted. What a wonderful contribution to flight safety.
I have written to NATS to ask why they did not continue the old service until we have had a chance to sign up to the new one. The Met Office did this when they recently upgraded their website.
Is this the attitude we can expect to users of NATS services?
I have written to NATS to ask why they did not continue the old service until we have had a chance to sign up to the new one. The Met Office did this when they recently upgraded their website.
Is this the attitude we can expect to users of NATS services?
Join Date: Feb 2001
Location: UK
Posts: 588
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
There was a link on the old website telling you all about the new one for a couple of months at least! I used the new one last weekend and thought it was pretty good, especially the route planning bit (sorry, too busy to find the links)
Join Date: Apr 2001
Location: UK
Posts: 349
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I fould this nugget yesterday - don't get too excited when you finally get in either. Getting an en route notam list is too much of a hassle to be worth it. The form it wants filled in is flaky and too complicated. I just went to my copy of NOTAMPlot and got the info I needed in a fraction of the time.
If ever there was an award for contributions to flight safety, my vote would go to this excellent piece of software - this is no commercial plug 'cos its free and everyone should use it.
If ever there was an award for contributions to flight safety, my vote would go to this excellent piece of software - this is no commercial plug 'cos its free and everyone should use it.
Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: Surrey, UK.
Posts: 0
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
bcfc sadly NotamPlot won't work anymore as the underlying text files are not available from AIS.
Have this on reasonably good authority -- the author
Sorry to p1ss on your chips.
Have this on reasonably good authority -- the author
Sorry to p1ss on your chips.
Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: Southern England
Posts: 119
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
And now this disclaimer
I have noticed today they have snuck into the FAQ a descripition on how to use the new site. I have read it and at least it answers some of the questions and does help to explain what to do- altough I agree with the problem of rapid turn off of the old delivery mechanism espically as on the Flyer forum someone is suggesting there are flaws in the delivery of the data.
Given that, how can they put this up?
If they are not responsible for the accuracy of their publications then who is????
Given that, how can they put this up?
Liability The information on this site is collated from a number of varied sources and is considered to be as reliable as possible at the time of publication. National Air Traffic Services Ltd and the UK Civil Aviation Authority, while exercising great care in the compilation of this information, will not be responsible for the accuracy of the contents of AIS publications, omissions therein, the adequacy or the receipt of this information.
Guest
Posts: n/a
I asked about compatability with NOTAMplot;
Got
"I cannot comment on third party products"
From
[email protected].
This is a major step backwards. There are some European and American sites which had the old style, anyone know of a good one? It may be posible to get NOTAMplot to work with them and kick Nats out!
Rod1
Got
"I cannot comment on third party products"
From
[email protected].
This is a major step backwards. There are some European and American sites which had the old style, anyone know of a good one? It may be posible to get NOTAMplot to work with them and kick Nats out!
Rod1
Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: Surrey, UK.
Posts: 0
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Rod1
Try:
http://ippc.nais.luftfartsverket.no/...erodrome1.html
I can't take credit for this pointer, someone on FlyerList posted it today... (If they're here they'll know who they are)
Try:
http://ippc.nais.luftfartsverket.no/...erodrome1.html
I can't take credit for this pointer, someone on FlyerList posted it today... (If they're here they'll know who they are)
Join Date: Dec 2000
Location: London, UK
Posts: 294
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
That disclaimer's not just an idle threat either - they really do miss stuff out you need 
Last Saturday did a Le Touquet run from Elstree and logged into the new site to try it out. Put in all the details and printed out the 18 pages. Undaunted, I waded through it all and couldn't find much to affect me, but as there was so much there I decided to just have a quick check using NotamPlot just in case I'd missed something important. I was horrified to see that just off my track I'd missed a PJE (Gillingham AB 5123 - H3862/02 in case anyone's interested!). I was really disconcerted - I was sure I'd checked reasonably carefully so I went back through it again to see how I could have missed it. Fairly simple explanation - it just wasn't there
.
How can that be??? It was scheduled for exactly the time I was returning and if I'd been one mile off track to the east I'd have passed straight through it.
I wouldn't like to jump to conclusions from just one example, but it really seems to me that this change is measurably dangerous and has a significant chance of causing a serious accident.
Quite apart from the missing NOTAMs, producing 18 pages of warnings, almost all of which are irrelevant, can only hinder pilots from carrying out a proper check. There's already been a thread on the OnTrack website about people not bothering to check for TRAs before setting out. Now it's been made even more difficult to check, this problem can only get worse. And if the service also omits NOTAMs (and even admits it might in the disclaimer) such pilots are starting to have a valid excuse for not bothering to look first.
This "improvement" really has been poorly carried out.
Last Saturday did a Le Touquet run from Elstree and logged into the new site to try it out. Put in all the details and printed out the 18 pages. Undaunted, I waded through it all and couldn't find much to affect me, but as there was so much there I decided to just have a quick check using NotamPlot just in case I'd missed something important. I was horrified to see that just off my track I'd missed a PJE (Gillingham AB 5123 - H3862/02 in case anyone's interested!). I was really disconcerted - I was sure I'd checked reasonably carefully so I went back through it again to see how I could have missed it. Fairly simple explanation - it just wasn't there
.How can that be??? It was scheduled for exactly the time I was returning and if I'd been one mile off track to the east I'd have passed straight through it.
I wouldn't like to jump to conclusions from just one example, but it really seems to me that this change is measurably dangerous and has a significant chance of causing a serious accident.
Quite apart from the missing NOTAMs, producing 18 pages of warnings, almost all of which are irrelevant, can only hinder pilots from carrying out a proper check. There's already been a thread on the OnTrack website about people not bothering to check for TRAs before setting out. Now it's been made even more difficult to check, this problem can only get worse. And if the service also omits NOTAMs (and even admits it might in the disclaimer) such pilots are starting to have a valid excuse for not bothering to look first.
This "improvement" really has been poorly carried out.
What a load of c***p NATS hjave concocted! It bears all the hallmarks of being created by a committee - moreover a committee of GCSE rejects. The help pages are useless, there are no FAQ's that I could find, it is the most un-user-friendly site I have come accross. This from the b*****dy organisation that is about to come cap in hand to the taxpayer. Let the Swedes do it for us!
Such a shame, when a smooth and helpful bit of kit like Notamplot had just come along. W8888888rs !
Such a shame, when a smooth and helpful bit of kit like Notamplot had just come along. W8888888rs !
Join Date: Jan 2001
Location: London
Posts: 52
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Just been taking a look at the Notams for a NAVEX tomorrow courtesy of the new 'improved' AIS site...ugh! what a dogs dinner the've made of the site.
It clearly smacks of a some bright spark cooking up a bunch of good ideas and slapping them together in a completely rubbish implementation. I did manage to figure out how it worked - I think - but if its not intuitive its surely a hindrance to flight safety. I can't say with confidence whether the correct/complete information is presented, which is worrying.
Oh yes, and someone seems to have forgotten to do any kind of performance testing on the damned thing when I eventually got into the site it crawled along.
what a dogs dinner the've made of the site.It clearly smacks of a some bright spark cooking up a bunch of good ideas and slapping them together in a completely rubbish implementation. I did manage to figure out how it worked - I think - but if its not intuitive its surely a hindrance to flight safety. I can't say with confidence whether the correct/complete information is presented, which is worrying.
Oh yes, and someone seems to have forgotten to do any kind of performance testing on the damned thing
when I eventually got into the site it crawled along.
Official PPRuNe Chaplain
Join Date: Apr 2001
Location: Witnesham, Suffolk
Age: 80
Posts: 3,498
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
The idea is right; what they're trying to do is right.
Only ... by the time they got round to it, Ian had produced NotamPlot and we were all blissfully happy. Now, they've improved the Notam site (they have!) but killed NotamPlot in the process.
There's a lot of work to be done before the AIS site is useable. I put in a route for tomorrow, telling it my route, VFR, not above 5000 feet. I got Upper Airways NOTAMS in the screed, for heavens sakes!
The NOTAM list started with a list of the 50-odd NOTAMS that are relevant but NOT included in the briefing. Really inspires confidence, that does.
I waded through the first four or five pages, and didn't see anything that looked relevant. After that, it was all a blur.
Give them time. Meanwhile, pray there aren't any important bits of information on page 13 of 25, or any important things they didn't get round to NOTAMming.
Only ... by the time they got round to it, Ian had produced NotamPlot and we were all blissfully happy. Now, they've improved the Notam site (they have!) but killed NotamPlot in the process.
There's a lot of work to be done before the AIS site is useable. I put in a route for tomorrow, telling it my route, VFR, not above 5000 feet. I got Upper Airways NOTAMS in the screed, for heavens sakes!
The NOTAM list started with a list of the 50-odd NOTAMS that are relevant but NOT included in the briefing. Really inspires confidence, that does.
I waded through the first four or five pages, and didn't see anything that looked relevant. After that, it was all a blur.
Give them time. Meanwhile, pray there aren't any important bits of information on page 13 of 25, or any important things they didn't get round to NOTAMming.
Join Date: Apr 2002
Location: Dorset
Posts: 902
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I sent the attached to NATS yesterday
As a PPL who flies from a smaller airfield, where the pre-flight briefing facilities are moderately basic, I have relied on self-briefing using a utility called NOTAM Plot, which downloads live data from the AIS Web Site into a readily viewable graphic display. This enables rapid assimilation of which NOTAMs are relevant to my proposed trip and permits me to concentrate on detailed review of relevant NOTAMs.
With the launch of the new NOTAM Web site, this facility has now been removed as the NOTAM Text files are no longer available. I have not yet registered with your new site, but I have been advised by others who have that that obtaining a list of NOTAMs applicable to the proposed route is complex and that the end product is, at best, of limited usefulness.
May I request that the plain text facility be permitted to remain in place at least until all the teething problems with the new site are resolved and users have gained some basic level of familiarity with the new system.The bulletins that used to be provided under the old web-site are no longer
available.
The following response has been received:
Please find attached a document to help you with your briefings.
A temporary Account:
Username: AISTEMP
Password: password
has been made available until the 20th September while people register themselves.
People are now getting a 'Full' briefing. While that might be a shock to the system, I'm sorry, that is what is going on and is relevant to the flying community.
People are doing so many differing forms of flying it would be dangerous if we were to continue to assume that we know what to restrict and what not to restrict. The web-site does allow you to use the tools available to filter the NOTAM to the type of flying activity you undertake.
Out of interest, a friend saw a good one on Wednesday afternoon (21 Aug 02): during a display at Weymouth seafront, which was scheduled to include the Sparra's, a Cessna of some variety pootled straight across Weymouth Bay whilst a Harrier was in the middle of a display routine. The visual estimates of miss distances were around 2-300m. The reg of the Cessna was noted and I have looked it up - it was registered to a Bournemouth Club. Someone obviously didn't do a very good job of reading *his* NOTAMS!
As a PPL who flies from a smaller airfield, where the pre-flight briefing facilities are moderately basic, I have relied on self-briefing using a utility called NOTAM Plot, which downloads live data from the AIS Web Site into a readily viewable graphic display. This enables rapid assimilation of which NOTAMs are relevant to my proposed trip and permits me to concentrate on detailed review of relevant NOTAMs.
With the launch of the new NOTAM Web site, this facility has now been removed as the NOTAM Text files are no longer available. I have not yet registered with your new site, but I have been advised by others who have that that obtaining a list of NOTAMs applicable to the proposed route is complex and that the end product is, at best, of limited usefulness.
May I request that the plain text facility be permitted to remain in place at least until all the teething problems with the new site are resolved and users have gained some basic level of familiarity with the new system.The bulletins that used to be provided under the old web-site are no longer
available.
The following response has been received:
Please find attached a document to help you with your briefings.
A temporary Account:
Username: AISTEMP
Password: password
has been made available until the 20th September while people register themselves.
People are now getting a 'Full' briefing. While that might be a shock to the system, I'm sorry, that is what is going on and is relevant to the flying community.
People are doing so many differing forms of flying it would be dangerous if we were to continue to assume that we know what to restrict and what not to restrict. The web-site does allow you to use the tools available to filter the NOTAM to the type of flying activity you undertake.
Out of interest, a friend saw a good one on Wednesday afternoon (21 Aug 02): during a display at Weymouth seafront, which was scheduled to include the Sparra's, a Cessna of some variety pootled straight across Weymouth Bay whilst a Harrier was in the middle of a display routine. The visual estimates of miss distances were around 2-300m. The reg of the Cessna was noted and I have looked it up - it was registered to a Bournemouth Club. Someone obviously didn't do a very good job of reading *his* NOTAMS!
Join Date: Apr 2000
Location: Milton Keynes, UK
Posts: 145
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Here is a transcript of what I have just experienced, and duly reported to the "AIS Supervisor".
Having just used your new briefing website I have a few comments I would like to make on the service offered.
We are planning to fly a navigational exercise tonight Luton - Stansted - Clacton - Thetford - Cambridge - Luton. I tried both a normal route briefing and a "narrow route briefing". I restricted the flight level to FL050 maximum along the route. Of the 6 pages of NOTAMs that printed out, 2 affected me. No en-route aerodromes were included unless I expressed them in the box (surely if the system knows the route and will be picking NOTAMs from a 10nm radius it could include them). I got NOTAMs regarding UP620 and UT7 Brest Control, and Plymouth Military Radar unavailable, 8.33KHz spacing (in effect since 99 anyway), and use of STS/ indicators in IFR plans when I specified VFR only. All in all, this is not good. I have found no NOTAMs about PJE or kite launching or rocket launching, when I know the route will be routing near them.
Until you switched the old website off I was able to use a fantastic bit of freeware called NotamPlot. This took the A1 and A8 bulletins and drew them on a map so you could visually see where the restrictions were. Notam Plot is the website for this. Now A1 and A8 bulletins are not available this software does not work, and I feel that the current service offered by NATS is a severe degradation in terms of quality and potential flight safety.
This is not what I'd expect. I've only recently realised just how many little NOTAMs there are out there to be checked, and this website seems to take all that away again...
(Edited coz I got the URL wrong....!)
Having just used your new briefing website I have a few comments I would like to make on the service offered.
We are planning to fly a navigational exercise tonight Luton - Stansted - Clacton - Thetford - Cambridge - Luton. I tried both a normal route briefing and a "narrow route briefing". I restricted the flight level to FL050 maximum along the route. Of the 6 pages of NOTAMs that printed out, 2 affected me. No en-route aerodromes were included unless I expressed them in the box (surely if the system knows the route and will be picking NOTAMs from a 10nm radius it could include them). I got NOTAMs regarding UP620 and UT7 Brest Control, and Plymouth Military Radar unavailable, 8.33KHz spacing (in effect since 99 anyway), and use of STS/ indicators in IFR plans when I specified VFR only. All in all, this is not good. I have found no NOTAMs about PJE or kite launching or rocket launching, when I know the route will be routing near them.
Until you switched the old website off I was able to use a fantastic bit of freeware called NotamPlot. This took the A1 and A8 bulletins and drew them on a map so you could visually see where the restrictions were. Notam Plot is the website for this. Now A1 and A8 bulletins are not available this software does not work, and I feel that the current service offered by NATS is a severe degradation in terms of quality and potential flight safety.
This is not what I'd expect. I've only recently realised just how many little NOTAMs there are out there to be checked, and this website seems to take all that away again...
(Edited coz I got the URL wrong....!)
Join Date: Aug 1999
Location: Too Far North
Posts: 1,106
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Just sent the following e-mail
This is the most successful attept at degrading flight safety that I have ever seen!!!!!!!!!!!
Just to test it I put in a VFR route from EGPT where I fly to EGPH. I got no info for Perth (not unusual) and two notams for Edinburgh both of which were relevent. I then got a whole load of utter drivel about 8.33 radios, Kinloss LARS (73 miles in the opposite direction for god sake!) and to cap it all, some info on QNH's around oilrigs in the north sea.
No doubt you have been told before, and I'm sure you will be told again, "Notamplot" was excellent very quick and easy. You have designed a site that is difficult to use and far too slow to use. I and I suspect many others will just not bother to use your site in its current form. Is that what you want?
Give us back the A1 and A8 bulletins and let us use Notamplot until you get this site user friendly. (A1 & A8 are still available on MARS so it must be possible).
Just to test it I put in a VFR route from EGPT where I fly to EGPH. I got no info for Perth (not unusual) and two notams for Edinburgh both of which were relevent. I then got a whole load of utter drivel about 8.33 radios, Kinloss LARS (73 miles in the opposite direction for god sake!) and to cap it all, some info on QNH's around oilrigs in the north sea.
No doubt you have been told before, and I'm sure you will be told again, "Notamplot" was excellent very quick and easy. You have designed a site that is difficult to use and far too slow to use. I and I suspect many others will just not bother to use your site in its current form. Is that what you want?
Give us back the A1 and A8 bulletins and let us use Notamplot until you get this site user friendly. (A1 & A8 are still available on MARS so it must be possible).
Join Date: Apr 2001
Location: Chichester, UK
Posts: 871
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Checking 10nm either side of a track from EGHR to EGHH it gives me information about Goodwood and Bournemouth, but then goes on about the Welshpool NDB, Lydd VOR and UP620 and UT7 Brest Control before several important NOTAMs about Cowes on the IoW.
Scrolling down further it is even giving me information about Carlisle, Campbeltown and a Red Arrows TRA in Clacton!!!
Apart from that, I agree with Keef. Good idea, bad implementation and so s...l...o...w...
Last edited by Evo7; 23rd Aug 2002 at 08:51.
I am planning to fly to EGTU on Sunday and, so far, I have not been able to get a single NOTAM. I enter all the requested fields and then the screen goes to >INPUT and then does nothing for about two minutes.
Am I being too impatient? Should I wait longer?
FAQ seems only to link to a site for unlicensed airfields. I have always been diligent about checking NOTAMS before flying and I am beginning to feel very insecure now.
I am not particularly computer wise and find the HELP fairly unhelpful - under Brief Id, all it says it must not exceed 3 7. What does that mean?
I agree that this is a singularly effective contribution to a reduction in air safety.
Am I being too impatient? Should I wait longer?
FAQ seems only to link to a site for unlicensed airfields. I have always been diligent about checking NOTAMS before flying and I am beginning to feel very insecure now.
I am not particularly computer wise and find the HELP fairly unhelpful - under Brief Id, all it says it must not exceed 3 7. What does that mean?
I agree that this is a singularly effective contribution to a reduction in air safety.