Did you ever dread lessons?
Join Date: Jun 2002
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If an instrucotr spoke to me like that, not only would i put him on the floor, id be making a complaint to the flying school.
One of my friends had an instructor similar to the one you describe. Basically, my mate gave him a piece of his mind and got everything off his chest. No more problems after that. The same went with my Mum with her driving instructor.
Take him through all 12 rounds if he can handle it.
One of my friends had an instructor similar to the one you describe. Basically, my mate gave him a piece of his mind and got everything off his chest. No more problems after that. The same went with my Mum with her driving instructor.
Take him through all 12 rounds if he can handle it.
Join Date: Apr 2002
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My instructor doesn't yell much and when he swears it's usually in jest. What he does do is nag and nag and nag and nag...
I get nagged for losing/gaining 100 feet, nagged for dropping speed by 5 knots or so, nagged for being too tense, etc, etc.
You get the idea
But it works better than any other teaching technique I've ever come across and I will be eternally grateful.
And when I have an engine failure, I won't be remembering someone swearing and hurling abuse at me. No, I'll just keep hearing that nagging! It will undoubtably keep me out of trouble for years to come
Wily
I get nagged for losing/gaining 100 feet, nagged for dropping speed by 5 knots or so, nagged for being too tense, etc, etc.
You get the idea
But it works better than any other teaching technique I've ever come across and I will be eternally grateful.
And when I have an engine failure, I won't be remembering someone swearing and hurling abuse at me. No, I'll just keep hearing that nagging! It will undoubtably keep me out of trouble for years to come
Wily
The Original Whirly
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I agree with everyone else; ditch this guy - he shouldn't be an instructor. I'm speaking from experience; I had someone very similar, stuck with him because someone I respected had told me to, and ended up with almost no confidence and scared to drive to the airfield, never mind fly. It took me ages to get over it, and added lots of time and money to my course - please learn from my experience; stop flying with this creep NOW!
I ended up with a quiet, calm chap who very gently demanded that I do the best I can. I still heqr his voice talking to me at times - insistently, quietly, and calmly. I think that's the kind of voice I'd like to hear in an emergency.
Telling the instructor and/or the CFI is a good idea, but if you don't feel able to, then just change instructor. It's your money, and what they think doesn't matter.
But please don't give up. Despite the fact that a fair proportion of my PPL course was an absolute nightmare, it was all worth it in the long run - flying is wonderful.
I ended up with a quiet, calm chap who very gently demanded that I do the best I can. I still heqr his voice talking to me at times - insistently, quietly, and calmly. I think that's the kind of voice I'd like to hear in an emergency.
Telling the instructor and/or the CFI is a good idea, but if you don't feel able to, then just change instructor. It's your money, and what they think doesn't matter.
But please don't give up. Despite the fact that a fair proportion of my PPL course was an absolute nightmare, it was all worth it in the long run - flying is wonderful.
Thread Starter
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Firstly, many, many thanks to all of you out there who have taken the time to reply. I have read and re-read everything that has been written and I am so pleased that I decided to gain your opinions, rather than just jackiing it all in (even though it was thaaaat close.)
Anyway, what I did was this......
I rang them up and told them that I was not happy about flying with this certain instructor. Obviously, the bloke on the other end of the phone asked me why. I told him the truth, and that it was basically a confidence issue. I did not feel relaxed with instructor X, and so I was told that swapping instructors would be no problem at all.
He told me to ignore what had been said by instructor X, and told me that other instructors who I'd flown with had said that i was a very capable student.
He also added that my original instructor was due back from his hols tomorrow, and that I would be booked in with him from then on. He also told me that I would never have to fly with instructor X again. (Incidentally, he did add that people in the past had complained about my original instructor, and so had swapped to instructor X with no problems. So obviously, personality is an issue with regard to student/instructor relationships.)
Anyway, I had eased my problem, but I still had to face instructor X whenever I turned up for a lesson. As it happened, I had a lesson today, thankfully, not with instructor X, but with the instructor who taught me during the solo circuit bashing portion of the course, and so I went for my lesson.
Instructor X's car was parked outside, and so I steelded myself for a nasty confrontation. But this never happened. Instructor X had obviously decided to just ignore me, and this was fine by me. (Yes, we are both children!)
I went up with the other instructor, who knew exactly what had been going on, and he told me that that instructor X was a good instructor, who had helped lots of people through their PPL's and higher ratings, but he agreed that he had an abrupt and rather fearsome manner. He told me that instructor X spoke before thinking, but that he usually didn't mean anything by it. He also added that on today's lesson, we would have a chilled out session, so that I could regain some of my confidence and enthusiasm for flying.
I did enjoy the lesson, (on basic navigation and map reading), and am happy to say that I will be continung with the PPL. I just hope that other student's, who are possibly in the position that I've been in, will read this thread and take note of all the advise that's been given. As a student, you should not have to put up with being made to feel a failure. You should not be going home after your lesson feeling like youv'e just been put through a mangle. Flying should be fun, it should be enjoyable, and hopefully, I will start feeling this again very soon.
Anyway, what I did was this......
I rang them up and told them that I was not happy about flying with this certain instructor. Obviously, the bloke on the other end of the phone asked me why. I told him the truth, and that it was basically a confidence issue. I did not feel relaxed with instructor X, and so I was told that swapping instructors would be no problem at all.
He told me to ignore what had been said by instructor X, and told me that other instructors who I'd flown with had said that i was a very capable student.
He also added that my original instructor was due back from his hols tomorrow, and that I would be booked in with him from then on. He also told me that I would never have to fly with instructor X again. (Incidentally, he did add that people in the past had complained about my original instructor, and so had swapped to instructor X with no problems. So obviously, personality is an issue with regard to student/instructor relationships.)
Anyway, I had eased my problem, but I still had to face instructor X whenever I turned up for a lesson. As it happened, I had a lesson today, thankfully, not with instructor X, but with the instructor who taught me during the solo circuit bashing portion of the course, and so I went for my lesson.
Instructor X's car was parked outside, and so I steelded myself for a nasty confrontation. But this never happened. Instructor X had obviously decided to just ignore me, and this was fine by me. (Yes, we are both children!)
I went up with the other instructor, who knew exactly what had been going on, and he told me that that instructor X was a good instructor, who had helped lots of people through their PPL's and higher ratings, but he agreed that he had an abrupt and rather fearsome manner. He told me that instructor X spoke before thinking, but that he usually didn't mean anything by it. He also added that on today's lesson, we would have a chilled out session, so that I could regain some of my confidence and enthusiasm for flying.
I did enjoy the lesson, (on basic navigation and map reading), and am happy to say that I will be continung with the PPL. I just hope that other student's, who are possibly in the position that I've been in, will read this thread and take note of all the advise that's been given. As a student, you should not have to put up with being made to feel a failure. You should not be going home after your lesson feeling like youv'e just been put through a mangle. Flying should be fun, it should be enjoyable, and hopefully, I will start feeling this again very soon.
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If an instructor, or a flying school, cannot take a request from you to fly with or not fly with an instructor without taking it personally or making you feel guilty or demanding an explaination then they don't deserve your hard-earned. Or anyone elses.
Simple.
If you were to give up flying because of an instructor like this then he/she ought to have their licence revoked.
And if the school hasn't picked up the fact that an instructor can't deal with this sort of thing or that they are trying desperately to keep you in his/her little group so they don't lose flight pay, then the owners or Management ought to collectively have AFEs entire stock of kneeboards shoved up where the sun don't shine.
When will people who work in a, let me remind you, LEISURE industry, (you know, where people spend a lot of their leisure time and money), stop bitching or feeling hard done by because they chose to commit to a career where they know there is little pay or getting all elitist and looking down on the people who pay their wages and remember they get to fly for free and have the smell of Avgas in their nostrils all day and stop being so bloody short-sighted.
Not that this is a particularly emotive subject for me, you understand.
Simple.
If you were to give up flying because of an instructor like this then he/she ought to have their licence revoked.
And if the school hasn't picked up the fact that an instructor can't deal with this sort of thing or that they are trying desperately to keep you in his/her little group so they don't lose flight pay, then the owners or Management ought to collectively have AFEs entire stock of kneeboards shoved up where the sun don't shine.
When will people who work in a, let me remind you, LEISURE industry, (you know, where people spend a lot of their leisure time and money), stop bitching or feeling hard done by because they chose to commit to a career where they know there is little pay or getting all elitist and looking down on the people who pay their wages and remember they get to fly for free and have the smell of Avgas in their nostrils all day and stop being so bloody short-sighted.
Not that this is a particularly emotive subject for me, you understand.
Join Date: Aug 2002
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Pardon my cynicism too...
Glad you sorted it, hope you enjoy the rest of your course.
When you finish your PPL, do an Aero course, learn dog-fighting techniques, then you can chase your nemesis around the skies
Glad you sorted it, hope you enjoy the rest of your course.
When you finish your PPL, do an Aero course, learn dog-fighting techniques, then you can chase your nemesis around the skies
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Flock1,
I have been out of town for a few days and was disgusted to read your sorry plight.
Please do not let any of this whole exercise put you off. I see you are persevering and that is admirable. You are a STUDENT pilot. You need to be encouraged through the skill and knowledge processes of flying. You pay money for an INSTRUCTOR to teach you. Unfortunately your money seems to have gone towards some self-centred egotistical star who should not even be the holder of a CPL.
I am now an airline Captain who came through the ranks and spent numerous years as a Cheif Flying Instructor. So I have seen the varying personalities of numerous instructors. And the type you describe tend to be the Macho, "This is how good I am and what I can do" ones who have something to prove. Just take a look around the flying school lounges and you will spot the ones who tend to talk of their own exploits a lot. You will invariably find tose who sit and listen are the more perceptive instructors.
I personally do not think the attack on your ability is warranted at all. Furthermore it is a well known fact that those instructors who do shout and swear are indeed covering their own failings. If you have made an error of judgement or decision making, obviously the said instructor either doesn't know what went wrong or doesn't know how to teach you to remedy it. I have even been witness to an occasion where a similar outburst jeopardised an Instructors privilege to retain a CAA medical certificate.
This sort of carry on would certainly be unwelcome in an airline environment let alone the important CRM models required for Flight Training. Do not feel uncomfortable when you next see this Instructor as he is an Instructor by name only and would certainly not be welcome in my team.
I have been out of town for a few days and was disgusted to read your sorry plight.
Please do not let any of this whole exercise put you off. I see you are persevering and that is admirable. You are a STUDENT pilot. You need to be encouraged through the skill and knowledge processes of flying. You pay money for an INSTRUCTOR to teach you. Unfortunately your money seems to have gone towards some self-centred egotistical star who should not even be the holder of a CPL.
I am now an airline Captain who came through the ranks and spent numerous years as a Cheif Flying Instructor. So I have seen the varying personalities of numerous instructors. And the type you describe tend to be the Macho, "This is how good I am and what I can do" ones who have something to prove. Just take a look around the flying school lounges and you will spot the ones who tend to talk of their own exploits a lot. You will invariably find tose who sit and listen are the more perceptive instructors.
I personally do not think the attack on your ability is warranted at all. Furthermore it is a well known fact that those instructors who do shout and swear are indeed covering their own failings. If you have made an error of judgement or decision making, obviously the said instructor either doesn't know what went wrong or doesn't know how to teach you to remedy it. I have even been witness to an occasion where a similar outburst jeopardised an Instructors privilege to retain a CAA medical certificate.
This sort of carry on would certainly be unwelcome in an airline environment let alone the important CRM models required for Flight Training. Do not feel uncomfortable when you next see this Instructor as he is an Instructor by name only and would certainly not be welcome in my team.
The Original Whirly
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Plastic Cockpit,
Good point, about these guys never making it in the airlines. It reminded me - the instructor who destroyed my confidence at an early stage of my training just couldn't wait to get to the airlines; he'd tell me about it in the early days when we were still on chatting terms. Nearly five years later, he still hadn't got that airline job. I was even beginnning to feel sorry for him; not that he deserved it.
Good point, about these guys never making it in the airlines. It reminded me - the instructor who destroyed my confidence at an early stage of my training just couldn't wait to get to the airlines; he'd tell me about it in the early days when we were still on chatting terms. Nearly five years later, he still hadn't got that airline job. I was even beginnning to feel sorry for him; not that he deserved it.
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As these are anonymous forums the origins of the contributions may be opposite to what may be apparent. In fact the press may use it, or the unscrupulous, to elicit certain reactions.
Based on one posting this instructor is obviously beyond contempt
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rustle,
By nature of the beast, bulletin boards will nearly always be one sided. One of the reasons names are not mentioned.
As contributors we have to take posters comments as fact, challenge or ignore responding. Ignoring every disputable comment would lead to a very dull board.
Now, whether the above situation has actually happened or not, it appears to be a common issue for people, so surely it is a positive debate as long as instructors names are not mentioned?
Regards,
LF
By nature of the beast, bulletin boards will nearly always be one sided. One of the reasons names are not mentioned.
As contributors we have to take posters comments as fact, challenge or ignore responding. Ignoring every disputable comment would lead to a very dull board.
Now, whether the above situation has actually happened or not, it appears to be a common issue for people, so surely it is a positive debate as long as instructors names are not mentioned?
Regards,
LF
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LF,
Not suggesting for one second that real issues should be ignored.
My posting fits with your model of "...take posters comments as fact, challenge or ignore...", I just didn't default to the first 
A dull old place it would be if everything was automatically taken as "fact"
Not suggesting for one second that real issues should be ignored.
My posting fits with your model of "...take posters comments as fact, challenge or ignore..."
, I just didn't default to the first A dull old place it would be if everything was automatically taken as "fact"
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yeah after my first solo i had to wait 4 months for my next one cus i broke my foot and couldnt fly when i started again i found it really difficult and thought of quitting but i got thru it with help and now i love every minute of it. I was helped by my instructor who always encouraged me when i got down
dont put up with any instructor your not happy with ask for a change you are the paying customer so dont put up with it
dont put up with any instructor your not happy with ask for a change you are the paying customer so dont put up with it
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Excellent post, dublinpilot.
Flock1's experience reminds me of Diane Ackerman's book, "On Extended Wings: An Adventure in Flight", which I would recommend to anyone else concerned about the quality of flight instruction.
I can't see any justification for an instructor bullying, shouting, swearing, or implying that a student is stupid or hopeless. Okay, there are very occasionally students who ARE hopeless [see generally www.avweb.com/articles/eyeofexp/eoe0042.html], but that problem should be dealt with fairly and in a caring manner.
I appreciate Hornetboy's point that an abusive instructor is a good CRM opportunity to learn how to deal with less-than-ideal conditions, but that presumes that the student already has a reasonably good grasp on basic flying skills.
Flock1's experience reminds me of Diane Ackerman's book, "On Extended Wings: An Adventure in Flight", which I would recommend to anyone else concerned about the quality of flight instruction.
I can't see any justification for an instructor bullying, shouting, swearing, or implying that a student is stupid or hopeless. Okay, there are very occasionally students who ARE hopeless [see generally www.avweb.com/articles/eyeofexp/eoe0042.html], but that problem should be dealt with fairly and in a caring manner.
I appreciate Hornetboy's point that an abusive instructor is a good CRM opportunity to learn how to deal with less-than-ideal conditions, but that presumes that the student already has a reasonably good grasp on basic flying skills.
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I've just read with some interest as an instructor myself. Seems to me that when he returned your original instructor handled the situation very well and very diplomatically without any unecessary slagging anyone off. Seems that you have too.
From my own experience, there are a very few students who do need a degree of shouting at. I, personally, find that strange because I know that I couldn't learn properly with someone shouting at me and so I find it very hard to do it. For those people, I am not a good instructor for them and I would hope that they'd go to one of my colleagues. For the majority of students who learn best when encouraged, I seem to be OK for them.
The point that I'm clumsily trying to make is that it's not right to say that a particular instructor should not have their CPL or should not be an instructor just because their style doesn't suit you, but you have the absolute right to refuse to fly with them and to choose one who's style does.
Sounds like everyone you've spoke to at your flying school recognised this and dealt with the situation as they should have once you pointed out to them that this particular instructor wasn't working for you.
Personally I think that some of the posters on this thread have not quite got this, though I must agree that this particular instructor may have taken things rather too far before seeing if you're one of these few students who does work better with negative rather than positive criticism.
Of course, the ultimate instructor would be able to change his or her style totally according to what was best for the student - but very few of us are able to do that to the extent that's sometimes required. Luckily there are enough instructors about that it doesn't matter so much as long as students are honest enough to say when a particular instructor's style doesn't work for them.
I'm very pleased that you have resolved this situation now and that you're not going to let this instructor put you off flying.
From my own experience, there are a very few students who do need a degree of shouting at. I, personally, find that strange because I know that I couldn't learn properly with someone shouting at me and so I find it very hard to do it. For those people, I am not a good instructor for them and I would hope that they'd go to one of my colleagues. For the majority of students who learn best when encouraged, I seem to be OK for them.
The point that I'm clumsily trying to make is that it's not right to say that a particular instructor should not have their CPL or should not be an instructor just because their style doesn't suit you, but you have the absolute right to refuse to fly with them and to choose one who's style does.
Sounds like everyone you've spoke to at your flying school recognised this and dealt with the situation as they should have once you pointed out to them that this particular instructor wasn't working for you.
Personally I think that some of the posters on this thread have not quite got this, though I must agree that this particular instructor may have taken things rather too far before seeing if you're one of these few students who does work better with negative rather than positive criticism.
Of course, the ultimate instructor would be able to change his or her style totally according to what was best for the student - but very few of us are able to do that to the extent that's sometimes required. Luckily there are enough instructors about that it doesn't matter so much as long as students are honest enough to say when a particular instructor's style doesn't work for them.
I'm very pleased that you have resolved this situation now and that you're not going to let this instructor put you off flying.
