Conversion from PA28 to Cessna 152
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They won't climb mind but that should then give them a hint that they haven't put the flaps away.
Edit: Well Matt, now you know that you will die as soon as you look at a 152 are you glad you asked the question?
Last edited by thing; 21st Feb 2014 at 00:31.
Absoutley nothing will happen stall wise if the pilot has been trained to attitude fly and sets the normal climb attitude of 10 degrees.
there is a possibility the flaps won't come up due to electrical failure
but this is rare of course
but this is rare of course
MJ
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MJ - I agree with what your saying re stall recovery in app config - and that was true for me when I was in Scotland.
Arrive in Aus - I found myself having to demonstrate recovery (actually in a 152 in app config) in a fully developed stall.
I was like - erm, this is new and quite good fun, but surly I've done this before - perhaps not!
Arrive in Aus - I found myself having to demonstrate recovery (actually in a 152 in app config) in a fully developed stall.
I was like - erm, this is new and quite good fun, but surly I've done this before - perhaps not!
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and we have to cater for them as well.
Personally I always did very relaxed checkouts and type differences training. the 30mins in the circuit was the norm.
Then when we got back I told them they were good to go and said we had an advanced handling courses, including short grass strips, mountain flying etc etc. And because they had enjoyed the checkout/differences training pretty much all of them came back for additional none required training.
If they booked the plane solo and were by themselves and spotted that we had a free instructor slot they would quite often ask for the instructor to come along as well and go and do some general handling including stalls out of any situations that both of us could think of.
But as I always taught reduce the AoA wings level, power up and clean up. We mostly got bored of that quite quickly and then started the PFL game.
Maybe the reason why I did 900hours a year when I was a full time instructor.
And to my knowledge none of mine have crashed so far touch wood.
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I too used to be thrown a set of keys and told take that for a company I was involved in some 15 yrs back.
These were not simple aeroplanes like a PA28 or 152.
As MJ says spend some time with the POH and then again sit in the aircraft and working across finger touch everything so you know where and what everything is.
All SEPs are a variation on a theme and its more a case of finding out the differences which you can usually count on one hand.
I would question anyone expecting more than an hour to convert from a PA28 to a C150 as being more interested in your wallet
Pace
These were not simple aeroplanes like a PA28 or 152.
As MJ says spend some time with the POH and then again sit in the aircraft and working across finger touch everything so you know where and what everything is.
All SEPs are a variation on a theme and its more a case of finding out the differences which you can usually count on one hand.
I would question anyone expecting more than an hour to convert from a PA28 to a C150 as being more interested in your wallet
Pace
All SEPs are a variation on a theme and its more a case of finding out the differences which you can usually count on one hand.
I would question anyone expecting more than an hour to convert from a PA28 to a C150 as being more interested in your wallet
I would question anyone expecting more than an hour to convert from a PA28 to a C150 as being more interested in your wallet
Which is an important point I think. There's far too much of a culture in the UK of "just get in and fly it". There is a reason why we have POHs and similar documents - it's to learn about the aeroplane before you get in it. The pilot who takes their time with the books to get to know the aeroplane, probably will do it inside an hour.
The pilot who doesn't will take more hours, and the instructor who doesn't ask pilots to spend some book time before flying, is probably just after the hours.
G
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But surely you wouldn't do a go round with full flap?
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What else do you do after you've bounced twice and are heading rapidly towards the edge of the runway?
Just reminded me of talking to the old girl next door.
She was sent down to leeds to pick up a Lancaster bomber for delivery up to Inverness all she had was hand written pilot notes on the train to read for her first flight with another lady who hadn't flown one before. Then she got driven up to Fern to pick up a spit but that was ok because she had flown one of them before. All with the grand total of 120 hours flying.
Just reminded me of talking to the old girl next door.
She was sent down to leeds to pick up a Lancaster bomber for delivery up to Inverness all she had was hand written pilot notes on the train to read for her first flight with another lady who hadn't flown one before. Then she got driven up to Fern to pick up a spit but that was ok because she had flown one of them before. All with the grand total of 120 hours flying.
She was sent down to leeds to pick up a Lancaster bomber for delivery up to Inverness all she had was hand written pilot notes on the train to read for her first flight with another lady who hadn't flown one before. Then she got driven up to Fern to pick up a spit but that was ok because she had flown one of them before. All with the grand total of 120 hours flying.
Amazing women (and a few men we shouldn't forget) the ATA, but not that many of them made it to the end of the war.
You can buy a set of those notes still, referred to as the "ATA Blue Book" from the Yorkshire Air Museum - I have a set, and they were £20 well spent just for the sheer fascination of it.
G
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What else do you do after you've bounced twice and are heading rapidly towards the edge of the runway?
We don't all that happens with instructors gold plating is that it drives punters away from flying and schools.
but not that many of them made it to the end of the war.
What else do you do after you've bounced twice and are heading rapidly towards the edge of the runway?
MJ
Last edited by Mach Jump; 21st Feb 2014 at 15:31.
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I think we already established that Thing is deliberately misunderstanding the term 'full flap go around' just to keep the pxssxng contest going.
Full flap approach, need to go around.
(1) Full power.
(2) Retract flaps in stages.
Therefore a go-around is typically initiated with full flaps, although it you've still got full flaps by 500ft, you may be missing something.
G
(1) Full power.
(2) Retract flaps in stages.
Therefore a go-around is typically initiated with full flaps, although it you've still got full flaps by 500ft, you may be missing something.
G
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Also remember that I most aircraft full flap is mostly drag while Lower stages of flap lift! There is little harm in reducing flap from full to a lower number especially as you will reduce AOA to compensate for the less drag
Pace
Pace
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30 minutes in the cct should do it. Any more than that and I would suspect they are taking the p*** out of your wallet
The ATA girls did a great job, but the circumstances were a little more exceptional, and if they DID bend one I suspect it would have been more acceptable than a low hour PPL bending a club machine.
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I cannot believe that "converting from a piper to a cessna" is even a topic for discussion.
bye the bye on my licence test flight the examiner required me to do a takeoff in the cessna with full flap.
I argued with him for half a runway but eventually he persuaded me.
all that happens is that you need to push a lot of nose down elevator to counter the centre of pressure movement.
you can actually takeoff with 40 degrees of flap.
bye the bye on my licence test flight the examiner required me to do a takeoff in the cessna with full flap.
I argued with him for half a runway but eventually he persuaded me.
all that happens is that you need to push a lot of nose down elevator to counter the centre of pressure movement.
you can actually takeoff with 40 degrees of flap.
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I think its a good idea to give a student or transitioning pilot a go around without being able to retract flaps. A failure of some sort or a popped CB that won't reset will make that a scenario that is best to have some previous experience rather than being a first time for a low time pilot. Of course, a mechanical flap handle might preclude that exercise...
Regarding flaps and performance, we had a few 182's in one particular organization. One had flap gap seals, and the rest didn't. Doing a no flap approach with the flap gap seal equipped airplane and comparing it's much flatter glide ratio to the others was a productive exercise.
Regarding flaps and performance, we had a few 182's in one particular organization. One had flap gap seals, and the rest didn't. Doing a no flap approach with the flap gap seal equipped airplane and comparing it's much flatter glide ratio to the others was a productive exercise.
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I think its a good idea to give a student or transitioning pilot a go around without being able to retract flaps.
You would think we were talking about students
Any PPL should be perfectly capable of flying to 3000 feet and checking out the behaviour differences with full flap or part flap on their own.
So you really need an instructor to change from a PA28 to a C150? i think not. These are PPLs not students!
Really stinks of flying clubs out to make money
Pace
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I'm not sure I'm understanding you. Personally I would select ful power, flaps 10 and climb out at 54. I'm pretty sure though you're going to come back and tell me that it's wrong to do that.
Instructor didn't complain when I did exactly that on a currency check ride the other day.