Plane crash Caernarfon

[Shaggy Sheep Driver]

Wasn't there a chap who flew into a river in Yorkshire? Claimed he mistook it for a runway or something. You can almost (but not quite) read between the lines of the AAIB report what they thought he was really up to when he hit the water!

[Lagentium]

Shaggy Sheep Driver, yes sir you are correct, flew into the River Derwent in one of Sherburn Aero Clubs aircraft, there were all sorts of rumours floating about as to what happened, not helped by his videos on YouTube that his friends recorded of him! Then he flew into a mountain in Europe somewhere.....

Cheers,Jim

[wsmempson]

Shaggysheepdriver, the rumour doing the rounds was that he was trying to copy the T6 Harvard display team in South Africa, who skim the surface of a lake in formation.

Matey had a chum standing by the riverbank to video his amazing feat of daring-do but, when the accident happened, wisely decided to 'accidentally' wipe the footage. Matey then came up with the landing story.

Allegedly.

[baldwinm]

Wind turbines

Sorry to bang on about the wind turbines again but I think it is slightly more on topic than recent posts

I note with interest that on a thread about the proposed wind farm near Popham that the siting of two wind turbines near Strathaven airfield was refused, one of the reasons given being airfield safety. Also the wind turbines at East Midlands Airport are under ATC control and hence can be stopped if required, presumably to control turbulence.

Go figure, as they say in the States.

[Pace]

BaldwinM

I totally agree with you on wind turbines
They are a blot on the landscape as well as a hazard to not only aircraft but wildlife!
A sickening development where a lot of people are making huge profits under the guise of " GREEN "
I doubt wind turbines were an ingredient in this tragic accident although they should be definately be banned from
Active airfields or their approach paths as well as many other places where they destroy the visual Beauty of our countryside!
Do not send them
Out to sea as they also destroy our marine life
Far far from
Green other than the colour of the notes in the fat cat wallets

Pace

[Back at NH]

In my experience, 'professional' pilots not uncommonly regard the private pilot as a not very competent dabbler with minimal training whose skills are always going to be suspect.

Why? Lets's have a look.

.... It's not a short, rough strip with obstacles on the approach, it's a nice long tarmac runway with an unobstructed approach to the displaced threshold.

Then why the displaced threshold? Quote from the AIP - "Runway 26 landing threshold displaced by 89m to allow 1:20 approach over trees and HT cable."

Never flown in there but based on what i can see on google earth it looks like a fine airfield

There are better briefing mediums

.....I used to ignore the displaced threshold at Enstone, knowing why they painted it in the first place, to lure pilots from London Airport (Oxford) !!! into doing some training at Enstone. Being familiar with the local scenery, there were no hazards on approach to merit a displaced threshold.

So hazards on approach are the only reason for a displaced threshold?

Doing my IMC has proved invaluable, only last week fresh in the saddle again did I find malfunctioning instruments in mostly crap weather. All worked out well because im confident.

I'd fly with you if that read "All worked out well because im(sic) competent"

In this case, from the pictures and comment, it seems to hardly need detailed investigation, .

It looks like a stall/spin accident caused by low speed back of drag curve with maybe a does of shear ito the equation.

A 3° approach wouldn't put you anywhere near those caravans or trees...

Trees are about 210m from the displaced threshold, assume another 100m for landing in from the threshold, so over trees at 310m from touchdown. 3 degree approach is 320ft/nm, nm =1852m.

So 54ft above threshold elevation over the trees, how high are the trees?

Oh and for those querying the sun causing visibility problems. 2 mins searching show it happened at 1030UTC, on an approach to RW26 in May, the sun is not an issue.

[Pace]

BackAtNH

You seem to rubbish everyones opinion so would love to know yours

Pace

[Shaggy Sheep Driver]

Not only that, but he's also a bit thick:

Quoting me:
.... It's not a short, rough strip with obstacles on the approach, it's a nice long tarmac runway with an unobstructed approach to the displaced threshold.

He asks...

Then why the displaced threshold? Quote from the AIP - "Runway 26 landing threshold displaced by 89m to allow 1:20 approach over trees and HT cable."

Because, you nitwit, the presence of the displaced threshold MAKES IT AN UNOBSTRUCTED APPROACH! That's what it's bleedin well for!

Jeesh!

[piperboy84]

Back at

Quote:
Never flown in there but based on what i can see on google earth it looks like a fine airfield

There are better briefing mediums

Yes, in-depth briefings are an excellent safety item when available, whether they be notams/AFD/ATIS etc. However you should not assume that everybody has the same flight mission/profile and too the same types of facilities. Over half my landings are in fields where the preflight destination telephone briefing goes something along these lines of:

Me: How’s the field looking today?
Field”Manager”: Which one?
Me: The one oot the back o’ the shed you had tatties in last year and its now in winter wheat.
Field “manager” Aye the tramlines are dry, it’ll dae fine.

That is why I said Caenarfon “looks like a fine field” to me it looks like a Heathrow!!

[mm_flynn]

Originally Posted by Shaggy Sheep Driver

Because, you nitwit, the presence of the displaced threshold MAKES IT AN UNOBSTRUCTED APPROACH! That's what it's bleedin well for!

Jeesh!

As a note, the displaced threshold gives 1:20 clearance, IF you land per specification, which is crossing said displaced threshold at 50 feet AGL.

So back NH's question should have been 'at 104 feet how high are you above the trees.' However, most people are probably not going to aim to be 50 feet at the threshold so it will remain a somewhat obstructed approach.

[maxred]

Not only that, but he's also a bit thick:

Really, where are the mods when you need them?

Play the ball SSD, not the man.........

Remember...Bah, Bah

[Pace]

The fact is displaced threshold or not obstacles or not you have the mark1 eyeballs and do not fly into obstructions.
Get too low or too slow over those trees and ????

Pace

[mary meagher]

Excessive use of the "Smilies" on this and other threads should be banned.
IMHO indicates a negative attitude towards others, and all too easy to use instead of a reasoned contribution.

[maxred]

And so should rudeness, name calling, and spouting gibberish about everything, when knowing very little, and yet threads are full of it...(Resist using a smillie).

The issue with internet forums is that in certain circumstances, from the comfort of an armchair, with a gin in tonic in one hand, it can be easy to get carried away with ones own importance in the overall scheme of things.

If you read through this again, the usual suspects belittle, and bully one or two posters, simply because they do not agree, nor view the differing opinions stated. Whether they are right or wrong, that in turn stifles useful debate, IMHO.

Because, you nitwit, the presence of the displaced threshold MAKES IT AN UNOBSTRUCTED APPROACH! That's what it's bleedin well for!

A case in point

[Bluebear1872]

Has the AAIB report came out yet for this accident?

[The_Observer]

Nope, hasn't keep a look out for G-ATRR on the AAIB bulletins.

[flyalotbob]

Looks like my carb ice suggestion wasn't too far off

BBC News - Ice blamed for Caernarfon plane crash which killed man

[bartonflyer]

Here's the link

Air Accidents Investigation: Piper PA-28-140 Cherokee, G-ATRR

[Fox Four]

I think the carb ice theory was always going to be the most obvious cause. I have to say the pilots action of using carb heat on the downwind leg only seems quite bizarre. I have met several instructors through the years, and every single one has used similar methods. Carb heat on throttle reduction to 1700rpm when on the base leg, that carb heat only being stuffed back in on short finals, thereby giving full power if you need it.

[Mikeod]

Although it looks like carb ice was the main cause, it really scares me to think I took my family flying in g-atrr with the wings rear bolts missing. Not to mention the rest of the safety issues brought up in the report