Landing Question!
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In a little over a month from now I will be starting my 61 st. year as a pilot.
In 60 years of flying I do not recall ever looking at the far end of a runway once I have flared for the landing...in fact I never ever look that far away because I can not accurately judge height looking that far ahead.
This look at the far end of the runway somehow morphed into the training industry around the end of the 1980's.
At the time I owned a flying school and watched as this look at the far end of the runway became the flavor of the time.....looks like it is now taken as the preferred way to teach.
In 60 years of flying I do not recall ever looking at the far end of a runway once I have flared for the landing...in fact I never ever look that far away because I can not accurately judge height looking that far ahead.
This look at the far end of the runway somehow morphed into the training industry around the end of the 1980's.
At the time I owned a flying school and watched as this look at the far end of the runway became the flavor of the time.....looks like it is now taken as the preferred way to teach.
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Stick and Rudder---chapter15....is there anything else to add?
Does it tell you to look at the far end of the runway to judge height above the landing surface?
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I was fortunate to have had some of the best teachers in flying early in my career.
Here is where I probably got the best lessons in how to fly real early in life.
I wrote this some years ago when I was thinking of writing a book...
......anyhow for anyone who has a few minutes to kill here is a true story:
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
The Tobacco Fields - By Chuck Ellsworth
For generations the farmers of southern Ontario have planted cared for harvested and cured tobacco in a small area on the northern shores of lake Erie. Our part in this very lucrative cash crop was aerial application of fertilizers and pesticides better known as crop dusting.
At the end of the twentieth century this form of farming is slowly dying due to the ever-increasing movement of the anti-smoking segment of society. Although few would argue the health risks of smoking it is interesting that our government actively supports both sides of this social problem. Several times in the past ten or so years I have rented a car and driven back to the tobacco farming area of Southern Ontario, where over forty years ago I was part of that unique group of pilots who earned their living flying the crop dusting planes.
The narrow old highways are still there, but like the tobacco farms they are slowly fading into history as newer and more modern freeways are built. The easiest way of finding tobacco country is to drive highway 3, during the nineteen forties and early fifties this winding narrow road was the main route from Windsor through the heart of tobacco country and on to the Niagara district. Soon after leaving the modern multi lane 401 to highway 3 you will begin to realize that although it was only a short drive you have drifted back a long way in time. Driving through the small villages and towns very little has changed and life seems to be as it was in the boom days of tobacco farming, when transients came from all over the continent for the harvest. They came by the hundreds to towns like Aylmer, Tillsonberg, Deli and Simcoe, these towns that were synonymous with tobacco have changed so little it is like going back in time.
Several of the airfields we flew our Cubs, Super Cubs and Stearmans out of in the fifties and early sixties are still there. Just outside of Simcoe highway 3 runs right past the airport and even before turning into the driveway to the field I can see that after all these years nothing seems to have changed. I could be in a time warp and can imagine a Stearman or Cub landing and one of my old flying friends getting out of his airplane after another morning killing tobacco horn worms, and saying come on Chuck lets walk down to the restaurant and have breakfast. The tobacco hornworm was a perennial pest and our most important and profitable source of income. Most of my old companion's names have faded from memory as the years have passed and we went our different ways but some of them are easy to recall.
Like Lorne Beacroft a really great cropduster and Stearman pilot. Lorne and I shared many exciting adventures in our airplanes working together from the row crop farms in Southern Ontario to conifer release spraying all over Northern Ontario for the big pulp and paper companies. Little did we know then that many years later I would pick up a newspaper thousands of miles away and read about Lorne being Canadas first successful heart transplant. I wonder where he is today and what he is doing?
There are others, Tom Martindale whom I talked to just last year after over forty years, now retired having flown a long career with Trans Canada Airlines, now named Air Canada. Then there was Howard Zimmerman who went on to run his own helicopter company and still in the aerial applicating business last I heard of him. And who could forget Bud Boughner another character that just disappeared probably still out there somewhere flying for someone.
I have been back to St. Thomas, another tobacco farming town on highway 3 twice in the last several years to pick up airplanes to move for people in my ferry business. The airport has changed very little over the years. The hangar where I first learned to fly cropdusters is still there with the same smell of chemicals that no Ag. Pilot can ever forget. It is now the home of Hicks and Lawrence who were in the business in the fifties and still at it, only the airplanes have changed.
My first flying job started in that hangar, right from a brand new commercial license to the greatest flying job that any pilot could ever want. There were twenty-three of us who started the crop dusting course early that spring, in the end only three were hired and I was fortunate to have been one of them.
With the grand total of 252 hours in my log book I started my training with an old duster pilot named George Walker. Right from the start he let me know that I was either going to fly this damned thing right on its limits and be absolutely perfect in flying crop spraying patterns or the training wouldn't last long. It was fantastic not only to learn how to really fly unusual attitudes but do it right at ground level.
To become a good crop duster pilot required that you accurately fly the airplane to evenly apply the chemicals over the field being treated. We really had to be careful with our flying when applying fertilizers in early spring as any error was there for all to see as the crop started growing. This was achieved by starting on one side of the field maintaining a constant height, airspeed and track over the crop. Just prior to reaching the end of your run full power was applied, and at the last moment the spray booms were shut off and at the same time a forty-five degree climb was initiated. As soon as you were clear of obstructions a turn right or left was made using forty five to sixty degrees of bank. After approximately three seconds a very quick turn in the opposite direction was entered until a complete one hundred and eighty degree change of direction had been completed. If done properly you were now lined up exactly forty-five feet right or left of the track you had just flown down the field.
From that point a forty-five degree dive was entered and with the use of power recovery to level flight was made at the exact height above the crop and the exact airspeed required for the next run down the field in the opposite direction to your last pass. Speed was maintained from that point by reducing power.
To finish the course and be one of the three finally hired was really hard to believe. To be paid to do this was beyond belief. When the season began we were each assigned an airplane, a crash helmet, a tent and sleeping bag and sent off to set up what was to be our summer home on some farmers field. Mine was near Langdon just a few miles from lake Erie.
Last year I tried without success to find the field where my Cub and I spent a lot of that first summer. Time and change linked with my memory of its location being from flying into it rather than driving to it worked against me and I was unable to find it. Remembering it however is easy, how could one forget crawling out of my tent just before sunrise to mix the chemicals? Then pump it into the spray tank and hand start the cub. Then to be in the air just as it was getting light enough to see safely and get in as many acres as possible before the wind came up and shut down our flying until evening. Then with luck the wind would go down enough to allow us to resume work before darkness would shut us down for the day. The company had a very good method for assuring we would spray the correct field.
Each new job was given to us by the salesman who after selling the farmer drew a map for the pilots with the location of the farm and each building and its color plus all the different crops were written on the map drawn to scale. As well as the buildings all trees, fences and power lines were drawn to scale. It was very easy for us to find and positively identify our field to be sprayed and I can not remember us making any errors in that regard.
Sadly there were to many flying errors made and during the first three years that I crop-dusted eight pilots died in this very demanding type of flying in our area. Most of the accidents were due to stalling in turns or hitting power lines, fences or trees.
One new pilot who had only been with us for two weeks died while doing a low level stall turn and spinning in, he was just to low to recover from the loss of control. He had been on his way back from a spraying mission when he decided to put on an airshow at the farm of his girlfriend of the moment. This particular accident was to be the last for a long time as those of us who were flying for the different companies in that area had by that time figured out what the limits were that we could not go beyond.
Even though there were a lot of accidents in the early years they at least gave the industry the motivation to keep improving on flying safety, which made a great difference in the frequency of pilot error accidents. Agricultural flying has improved in other areas as well especially in the use of toxic chemicals.
In 1961 Rachel Carson wrote a book called "The silent spring. " This book was the beginning of public awareness to the danger of the wide area spraying of chemicals especially the use of D.D.T. to control Mosquitoes and black flies.
For years all over the world we had been using this chemical not really aware that it had a very long-term residual life. When Rachels book pointed out that D.D.T. had began to build up in the food chain in nature, she also showed that as a result many of the birds and other species were in danger of being wiped out due to D.D.T. Her book became a best seller and we in the aerial application business were worried that it would drastically affect our business, and it did.
The government agency in Ontario that regulated pesticides and their use called a series of meetings with the industry. From these meetings new laws were passed requiring us to attend Guelph agricultural college and receive a diploma in toxicology and entomology. I attended these classes and in the spring of 1962 passed the exams and received Pest Control License Class 3 - Aerial Applicator.
My license number was 001. Now if nothing else I can say that I may not have been the best but I was the first. Without doubt the knowledge and understanding of the relationship of these chemicals to the environment more than made up for all the work that went into getting the license. From that point on the industry went to great length to find and use chemicals less toxic to our animal life and also to humans.
It would be easy to just keep right on writing about aerial application and all the exciting and sometimes boring experiences we had, however I will sum it all up with the observation that crop dusting was not only my first flying job it was without doubt the best. I flew seven seasons' crop dusting and I often think of someday giving it another go, at least for a short time.
Here is where I probably got the best lessons in how to fly real early in life.
I wrote this some years ago when I was thinking of writing a book...
......anyhow for anyone who has a few minutes to kill here is a true story:
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
The Tobacco Fields - By Chuck Ellsworth
For generations the farmers of southern Ontario have planted cared for harvested and cured tobacco in a small area on the northern shores of lake Erie. Our part in this very lucrative cash crop was aerial application of fertilizers and pesticides better known as crop dusting.
At the end of the twentieth century this form of farming is slowly dying due to the ever-increasing movement of the anti-smoking segment of society. Although few would argue the health risks of smoking it is interesting that our government actively supports both sides of this social problem. Several times in the past ten or so years I have rented a car and driven back to the tobacco farming area of Southern Ontario, where over forty years ago I was part of that unique group of pilots who earned their living flying the crop dusting planes.
The narrow old highways are still there, but like the tobacco farms they are slowly fading into history as newer and more modern freeways are built. The easiest way of finding tobacco country is to drive highway 3, during the nineteen forties and early fifties this winding narrow road was the main route from Windsor through the heart of tobacco country and on to the Niagara district. Soon after leaving the modern multi lane 401 to highway 3 you will begin to realize that although it was only a short drive you have drifted back a long way in time. Driving through the small villages and towns very little has changed and life seems to be as it was in the boom days of tobacco farming, when transients came from all over the continent for the harvest. They came by the hundreds to towns like Aylmer, Tillsonberg, Deli and Simcoe, these towns that were synonymous with tobacco have changed so little it is like going back in time.
Several of the airfields we flew our Cubs, Super Cubs and Stearmans out of in the fifties and early sixties are still there. Just outside of Simcoe highway 3 runs right past the airport and even before turning into the driveway to the field I can see that after all these years nothing seems to have changed. I could be in a time warp and can imagine a Stearman or Cub landing and one of my old flying friends getting out of his airplane after another morning killing tobacco horn worms, and saying come on Chuck lets walk down to the restaurant and have breakfast. The tobacco hornworm was a perennial pest and our most important and profitable source of income. Most of my old companion's names have faded from memory as the years have passed and we went our different ways but some of them are easy to recall.
Like Lorne Beacroft a really great cropduster and Stearman pilot. Lorne and I shared many exciting adventures in our airplanes working together from the row crop farms in Southern Ontario to conifer release spraying all over Northern Ontario for the big pulp and paper companies. Little did we know then that many years later I would pick up a newspaper thousands of miles away and read about Lorne being Canadas first successful heart transplant. I wonder where he is today and what he is doing?
There are others, Tom Martindale whom I talked to just last year after over forty years, now retired having flown a long career with Trans Canada Airlines, now named Air Canada. Then there was Howard Zimmerman who went on to run his own helicopter company and still in the aerial applicating business last I heard of him. And who could forget Bud Boughner another character that just disappeared probably still out there somewhere flying for someone.
I have been back to St. Thomas, another tobacco farming town on highway 3 twice in the last several years to pick up airplanes to move for people in my ferry business. The airport has changed very little over the years. The hangar where I first learned to fly cropdusters is still there with the same smell of chemicals that no Ag. Pilot can ever forget. It is now the home of Hicks and Lawrence who were in the business in the fifties and still at it, only the airplanes have changed.
My first flying job started in that hangar, right from a brand new commercial license to the greatest flying job that any pilot could ever want. There were twenty-three of us who started the crop dusting course early that spring, in the end only three were hired and I was fortunate to have been one of them.
With the grand total of 252 hours in my log book I started my training with an old duster pilot named George Walker. Right from the start he let me know that I was either going to fly this damned thing right on its limits and be absolutely perfect in flying crop spraying patterns or the training wouldn't last long. It was fantastic not only to learn how to really fly unusual attitudes but do it right at ground level.
To become a good crop duster pilot required that you accurately fly the airplane to evenly apply the chemicals over the field being treated. We really had to be careful with our flying when applying fertilizers in early spring as any error was there for all to see as the crop started growing. This was achieved by starting on one side of the field maintaining a constant height, airspeed and track over the crop. Just prior to reaching the end of your run full power was applied, and at the last moment the spray booms were shut off and at the same time a forty-five degree climb was initiated. As soon as you were clear of obstructions a turn right or left was made using forty five to sixty degrees of bank. After approximately three seconds a very quick turn in the opposite direction was entered until a complete one hundred and eighty degree change of direction had been completed. If done properly you were now lined up exactly forty-five feet right or left of the track you had just flown down the field.
From that point a forty-five degree dive was entered and with the use of power recovery to level flight was made at the exact height above the crop and the exact airspeed required for the next run down the field in the opposite direction to your last pass. Speed was maintained from that point by reducing power.
To finish the course and be one of the three finally hired was really hard to believe. To be paid to do this was beyond belief. When the season began we were each assigned an airplane, a crash helmet, a tent and sleeping bag and sent off to set up what was to be our summer home on some farmers field. Mine was near Langdon just a few miles from lake Erie.
Last year I tried without success to find the field where my Cub and I spent a lot of that first summer. Time and change linked with my memory of its location being from flying into it rather than driving to it worked against me and I was unable to find it. Remembering it however is easy, how could one forget crawling out of my tent just before sunrise to mix the chemicals? Then pump it into the spray tank and hand start the cub. Then to be in the air just as it was getting light enough to see safely and get in as many acres as possible before the wind came up and shut down our flying until evening. Then with luck the wind would go down enough to allow us to resume work before darkness would shut us down for the day. The company had a very good method for assuring we would spray the correct field.
Each new job was given to us by the salesman who after selling the farmer drew a map for the pilots with the location of the farm and each building and its color plus all the different crops were written on the map drawn to scale. As well as the buildings all trees, fences and power lines were drawn to scale. It was very easy for us to find and positively identify our field to be sprayed and I can not remember us making any errors in that regard.
Sadly there were to many flying errors made and during the first three years that I crop-dusted eight pilots died in this very demanding type of flying in our area. Most of the accidents were due to stalling in turns or hitting power lines, fences or trees.
One new pilot who had only been with us for two weeks died while doing a low level stall turn and spinning in, he was just to low to recover from the loss of control. He had been on his way back from a spraying mission when he decided to put on an airshow at the farm of his girlfriend of the moment. This particular accident was to be the last for a long time as those of us who were flying for the different companies in that area had by that time figured out what the limits were that we could not go beyond.
Even though there were a lot of accidents in the early years they at least gave the industry the motivation to keep improving on flying safety, which made a great difference in the frequency of pilot error accidents. Agricultural flying has improved in other areas as well especially in the use of toxic chemicals.
In 1961 Rachel Carson wrote a book called "The silent spring. " This book was the beginning of public awareness to the danger of the wide area spraying of chemicals especially the use of D.D.T. to control Mosquitoes and black flies.
For years all over the world we had been using this chemical not really aware that it had a very long-term residual life. When Rachels book pointed out that D.D.T. had began to build up in the food chain in nature, she also showed that as a result many of the birds and other species were in danger of being wiped out due to D.D.T. Her book became a best seller and we in the aerial application business were worried that it would drastically affect our business, and it did.
The government agency in Ontario that regulated pesticides and their use called a series of meetings with the industry. From these meetings new laws were passed requiring us to attend Guelph agricultural college and receive a diploma in toxicology and entomology. I attended these classes and in the spring of 1962 passed the exams and received Pest Control License Class 3 - Aerial Applicator.
My license number was 001. Now if nothing else I can say that I may not have been the best but I was the first. Without doubt the knowledge and understanding of the relationship of these chemicals to the environment more than made up for all the work that went into getting the license. From that point on the industry went to great length to find and use chemicals less toxic to our animal life and also to humans.
It would be easy to just keep right on writing about aerial application and all the exciting and sometimes boring experiences we had, however I will sum it all up with the observation that crop dusting was not only my first flying job it was without doubt the best. I flew seven seasons' crop dusting and I often think of someday giving it another go, at least for a short time.
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We all have different backgrounds learning how to fly. Most work out fine if you make sure you don't let one instructor lead you to do his technique because he is sure his way is the only way.
We can all read books and talk to other pilots to not let this happen.
Become the best pilot you can and don't listen to everything you hear. This thread is probably not the best way to do that. I learned a lot more from books than listening to a lot of flight instructor theories. 23,000 hrs with nothing on my record I think proves my point. I have been put down here because I landed over 600 times at TGU. Why, because even though it is the most dangerous airport for airliners to land at in the world, I loved it because it was fun and challenging and never had a problem. Other airlines crashed, we never did. Not that makes us better, we just followed procedures. You should too. Do a stabilized approach using VASI or GS and leave the idle approach for when you want to practice engine out landings.
We can all read books and talk to other pilots to not let this happen.
Become the best pilot you can and don't listen to everything you hear. This thread is probably not the best way to do that. I learned a lot more from books than listening to a lot of flight instructor theories. 23,000 hrs with nothing on my record I think proves my point. I have been put down here because I landed over 600 times at TGU. Why, because even though it is the most dangerous airport for airliners to land at in the world, I loved it because it was fun and challenging and never had a problem. Other airlines crashed, we never did. Not that makes us better, we just followed procedures. You should too. Do a stabilized approach using VASI or GS and leave the idle approach for when you want to practice engine out landings.
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Guys you need to stop the boasting here; I reckon the average student visiting this site for guidance on landing an aircraft is likely to end up being thoroughly confused by some of the flashy ideas and boastful war stories.
Keep it simple and and keep it safe - looking well down the runway just prior to the flare has worked admirably for hundreds of thousands of of our predecessors, its all about seeing the BIG picture.
The only poor landings I've ever witnessed in my 36 years in aviation have come from those students who persist in looking at the aiming point or very close to it - that technique is a complete nightmare for any student who suffers from ground shyness!
Keep it simple and and keep it safe - looking well down the runway just prior to the flare has worked admirably for hundreds of thousands of of our predecessors, its all about seeing the BIG picture.
The only poor landings I've ever witnessed in my 36 years in aviation have come from those students who persist in looking at the aiming point or very close to it - that technique is a complete nightmare for any student who suffers from ground shyness!
Last edited by sapco2; 12th May 2013 at 00:00.
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I taught myself how to cropdust and apply the proper spray in a super cub by our farm one year. I just got my commercial pilots license and what a thrill. Flying under wires legally was fun. You don't focus on any point, you observe everything and do the job. We landed on roads to reload and did all kinds of stuff that would be not legal by a normal pilot. It was a thrill but knew it was one dimentional and I wanted to be an airline pilot one day so went through instructing, charter and corporate flying to finaly reach my goal as an airline pilot. It was a long shot but worked. I just remember how much fun it was in the beginning flying single engine and occasionally a multi engine plane.
I know things are different now but if you want to be a commercial pilot now you can. I did.
I know things are different now but if you want to be a commercial pilot now you can. I did.
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The only poor landings I've ever witnessed in my 36 years in aviation have come from those students who persist in looking at the aiming point or very close to it - that technique is a complete nightmare for any student who suffers from ground shyness!
Guys you need to stop the boasting here; I reckon the average student visiting this site for guidance on landing an aircraft is likely to end up being thoroughly confused by some of the flashy ideas and boastful war stories
Yeh for sure, no one learns anything from people with experience.
Maybe the private pilot forum should ban anyone with experience from giving advice here?
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Pilots don't look at the end of the runway, they scan how their descent is going and flare using their eyeballs to know when the wheels will touch. We have been doing this for decades. This is not rocket science.
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Landing Question!
Interesting chuck
When I left the farm in the late seventies it was not unusual to see spraying for aphid's usually the helicopter was flown by some complete nutter from New Zealand or South Africa. Upon returning to the farm in the last decade I asked my father why they don't spray with the choppers anymore he said efficiency is the main reason followed by health and safety. With modern sprayers having 24 meter booms that are deadly accurate at dispensing and cost far less than aircraft although I notice on rural and steep areas of the highlands they have recently been using choppers to spray for tics on the heather
When I left the farm in the late seventies it was not unusual to see spraying for aphid's usually the helicopter was flown by some complete nutter from New Zealand or South Africa. Upon returning to the farm in the last decade I asked my father why they don't spray with the choppers anymore he said efficiency is the main reason followed by health and safety. With modern sprayers having 24 meter booms that are deadly accurate at dispensing and cost far less than aircraft although I notice on rural and steep areas of the highlands they have recently been using choppers to spray for tics on the heather
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When I was learning to land helicopters, I was not getting it right. My instructor said "you're not looking far enough ahead of the helicopter. When you're really good, you can land looking only at the ground right under the nose". He was right.
I can land the planes I'm familiar with, with very little cue from the "horizon". The helicopters came to me over time. Other aircraft, I do look further ahead.
Focus on the big picture for now....
I can land the planes I'm familiar with, with very little cue from the "horizon". The helicopters came to me over time. Other aircraft, I do look further ahead.
Focus on the big picture for now....
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Nope Chuck that's definitely not what I'm saying:
If the student pilot adopts the conventional landing technique it doesn't matter what he or she goes on to fly... it could be a tail dragger, glider, commercial jet, helicopter, hot air balloon or even flaring a parachute it will work well for him/her. Looking well ahead is necessary in order to take in the ENTIRE picture enabling the student to quickly grasp the concept of ROD and how it needs to change close to the ground and also how to control drift in the flare. Managing ROD in the latter stages is what this is all about and it can be taught very efficiently if the student has the confidence to steel his/her eyes away from the touch down point. I strongly suspect you unwittingly do it this way yourself Chuck.
As for looking well ahead; a gardener who walks or drives his lawn mower looking just a few yards in front of him can expect to look back at some a very wonky stripes. However if he picks a line of sight in the distance he can expect to achieve almost perfect stripes. That's probably true of crop spraying but then you would be a better judge of that than I Chuck.
All the best and happy landings everyone!
If the student pilot adopts the conventional landing technique it doesn't matter what he or she goes on to fly... it could be a tail dragger, glider, commercial jet, helicopter, hot air balloon or even flaring a parachute it will work well for him/her. Looking well ahead is necessary in order to take in the ENTIRE picture enabling the student to quickly grasp the concept of ROD and how it needs to change close to the ground and also how to control drift in the flare. Managing ROD in the latter stages is what this is all about and it can be taught very efficiently if the student has the confidence to steel his/her eyes away from the touch down point. I strongly suspect you unwittingly do it this way yourself Chuck.
As for looking well ahead; a gardener who walks or drives his lawn mower looking just a few yards in front of him can expect to look back at some a very wonky stripes. However if he picks a line of sight in the distance he can expect to achieve almost perfect stripes. That's probably true of crop spraying but then you would be a better judge of that than I Chuck.
All the best and happy landings everyone!
Last edited by sapco2; 12th May 2013 at 18:43.
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You are not reading what I have written in this discussion sapco2.
My position on this is looking to far ahead ( At the far end of the runway. ) will degrade your ability to accurately judge how high you are above the ground / runway / water/ snow.
If you go back and read my explanation on where I look it will clear up your misreading of what I have said.
For me the ideal distance to have the center of your vision ahead of the airplane is where apparent movement of the runway towards you ceases....about 500 feet in most light airplanes....it is speed related.
I am able to judge height above the runway within six inches using that sight picture.
My position on this is looking to far ahead ( At the far end of the runway. ) will degrade your ability to accurately judge how high you are above the ground / runway / water/ snow.
If you go back and read my explanation on where I look it will clear up your misreading of what I have said.
For me the ideal distance to have the center of your vision ahead of the airplane is where apparent movement of the runway towards you ceases....about 500 feet in most light airplanes....it is speed related.
I am able to judge height above the runway within six inches using that sight picture.
Last edited by Chuck Ellsworth; 12th May 2013 at 19:13.
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Just land like you drive your car. You don't stare down the road, you look far ahead, look close for debris, check for who is in the next lane and check that cross traffic is not going to run a red light. Scan your whole approach environment and of course cross check your airspeed so you can catch a windshear immediately instead of too late. Sink rate can be detected easily just by looking out the window at low altitudes.
No big deal but an FAA check airman was giving me a line check in a 727 into MIA on the 30 Loc approach. Reaching MDA with airput in sight started our visual descent to land when everything went away with heavy rain and turbulence so went around with no problem but always remember when things go south just go around and wait for things to straighten out and come back for an easy approach. When I was young I loved the challenge, when I got old I just wanted to land with no heroic piloting. Always try to fly with the captain with grey hair.
No big deal but an FAA check airman was giving me a line check in a 727 into MIA on the 30 Loc approach. Reaching MDA with airput in sight started our visual descent to land when everything went away with heavy rain and turbulence so went around with no problem but always remember when things go south just go around and wait for things to straighten out and come back for an easy approach. When I was young I loved the challenge, when I got old I just wanted to land with no heroic piloting. Always try to fly with the captain with grey hair.
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I remember seeing a documentary about racing drivers many years ago. They put fancy cameras on a driver's helmet that looked back at his eyes so they could work out where he was looking to judge distances. They found his eyes flicked rapidly between the apex of the corners (where he wanted to be) and objects like the red and white kerb or patterned tyre walls on the outside of the track to sense relative motion.
Has nobody done something similar with pilots? It would be an interesting study.
Has nobody done something similar with pilots? It would be an interesting study.
Last edited by The500man; 13th May 2013 at 10:32.
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We hopefully aren't a foot away from another vehicle but we still know how to scan what is important. We don't focus on one point, we scan what is important for what we are doing at the time. I am sure our eyes do a similar thing as a race car driver but not as fast because we don't have a car beside us.
Join Date: May 2013
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Gee, I wish I knew how to land. I'm 75, went solo two years ago, and only have about 500 hours. I have a high wing 100hp geared Rotax 912 plane with beam undercarriage. They used to be cantilevered legs but after bending the mountings the second time, I changed to the full beam. I might have learnt more about landing, too.
But actually, I don't know how to land, I just do it. About a year ago, a real genius instructor put a dot on my windshield and another on the wing strut. He told me as long as I was beam-on to the numbers and the side dot was on the numbers, I'd be at the right glide angle for me. On downwind, and on base. Unless it's windy, use full flaps, 60kts, 3000 rpm and keep the windscreen dot on the numbers on final. Over the fence cut the throttle and keep just off the ground as long as possible by easing the yoke back as needed till it 'kisses'.
As time has passed I find more and more I ignore all those dots and numbers (apart from the 60kts) and just do it. If I think too much I get confused. On a strange paddock, when downwind I count seconds and if it takes less than 15 seconds to transit the usable length I go somewhere else. At 60 kts I guess that's about 450m, say 1500' or so.
I have no idea how I tell I'm at kiss height. My 'fellow aviators' said that one day I'd 'get it' and I have.
But I couldn't tell anyone else how to do it - I don't have a clue how I do it myself.
But actually, I don't know how to land, I just do it. About a year ago, a real genius instructor put a dot on my windshield and another on the wing strut. He told me as long as I was beam-on to the numbers and the side dot was on the numbers, I'd be at the right glide angle for me. On downwind, and on base. Unless it's windy, use full flaps, 60kts, 3000 rpm and keep the windscreen dot on the numbers on final. Over the fence cut the throttle and keep just off the ground as long as possible by easing the yoke back as needed till it 'kisses'.
As time has passed I find more and more I ignore all those dots and numbers (apart from the 60kts) and just do it. If I think too much I get confused. On a strange paddock, when downwind I count seconds and if it takes less than 15 seconds to transit the usable length I go somewhere else. At 60 kts I guess that's about 450m, say 1500' or so.
I have no idea how I tell I'm at kiss height. My 'fellow aviators' said that one day I'd 'get it' and I have.
But I couldn't tell anyone else how to do it - I don't have a clue how I do it myself.
