Landing Question!
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Yes there is, why not have a forum for private pilots to ask questions and to exchange ideas where Pprune will check out the background of genuine pilots who want to contribute useful advice and when there is a problem cull the answers from posters who are trolls.
You also wont get students in (which may be a good or a bad thing...).
Other groups have experimented with locked in forums (such as the BGA in the UK I think?) but most have reverted back to open access.
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Thanks for the answer Saab Dastard, I understand the problems that are involved in moderating these forums and in the end the regulars smoke out the trolls. 
Just yesterday I found the Pprune pin Danny gave me many years ago when he was out here in British Columbia, it was in my workshop in one of my tool boxes...no idea how it got there.
Anyhow thanks and if I get real pissed off with sevenstroke I will try and remain just civil enough so I will not get banned here.
Just yesterday I found the Pprune pin Danny gave me many years ago when he was out here in British Columbia, it was in my workshop in one of my tool boxes...no idea how it got there.
Anyhow thanks and if I get real pissed off with sevenstroke I will try and remain just civil enough so I will not get banned here.
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Well I have been away and just caught up with the thread.
My observations are thus :
Sevenstrokeroll - I concur with my colleagues, your posts are less than helpful.
Get back to your r/c model 737. And for the record, you do NOT fly a Turbo Lance II the way that you suggest. Do one! Bye.
Againstgravity - Lots of sound advice here and i cannot add much else other than say practice, practice, practice. Take some snip bits from here and try it
for yourself with your instructor. One day something will just click and before you know it, you will be performing all types of approaches without much thought. Enjoy. Goodluck.
Pace - Please do not talk about that
Kevin Crellin on here this time of night. What was he suppose to have been, a CAA test pilot, ex solicitor and businessman. He was full of tricks. 
My observations are thus :
Sevenstrokeroll - I concur with my colleagues, your posts are less than helpful.
Get back to your r/c model 737. And for the record, you do NOT fly a Turbo Lance II the way that you suggest. Do one!
Bye.Againstgravity - Lots of sound advice here and i cannot add much else other than say practice, practice, practice. Take some snip bits from here and try it
for yourself with your instructor. One day something will just click and before you know it, you will be performing all types of approaches without much thought. Enjoy. Goodluck.
Pace - Please do not talk about that
Kevin Crellin on here this time of night. What was he suppose to have been, a CAA test pilot, ex solicitor and businessman. He was full of tricks.
You can take the piss MJ 
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SSR hasn't flown commercially for years due to medical issues.
He posted his e-mail address in the 'Unfamiliar Airport Entry pattern' thread:-
A few minutes on google yields things such as:-
He posted his e-mail address in the 'Unfamiliar Airport Entry pattern' thread:-
JONDC9 AT AMERICA ONLINE DOT COM
First let me identify myself as a pilot. I am medically grounded now, but in my 34 years in aviation I have held or currently hold the following credentials:
Private Pilot Single Engine Land
Instrument rating
Commercial Pilot Single Engine Land
commercial Pilot Multi Engine Land
Certified flight instructor
Certified Instrument Instructor
Certified Multi-Engine Instructor
Airline Transport PIlot (this is the PHD of flying) Multi Engine Land
Private Pilot Single Engine Land
Instrument rating
Commercial Pilot Single Engine Land
commercial Pilot Multi Engine Land
Certified flight instructor
Certified Instrument Instructor
Certified Multi-Engine Instructor
Airline Transport PIlot (this is the PHD of flying) Multi Engine Land
Spoon PPRuNerist & Mad Inistrator
I've tidied up the latest outbreak of handbags.
sevenstrokeroll has been banned from this thread, permanently, with a warning to improve behaviour or risk being banned from the site permanently.
Perhaps reasoned debate can resume now.
SD
sevenstrokeroll has been banned from this thread, permanently, with a warning to improve behaviour or risk being banned from the site permanently.
Perhaps reasoned debate can resume now.
SD
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Yes, Virginia, there really is a moderator....we'll all have to behave now, aw shucks!
Hey guys, did you see my current thread on the glider splashdown? Took a while to have some feedback on that rumour, but it turned out to be true!!
Hey guys, did you see my current thread on the glider splashdown? Took a while to have some feedback on that rumour, but it turned out to be true!!
Spoon PPRuNerist & Mad Inistrator
sevenstrokeroll has now been banned permanently, following a highly abusive PM to me - the contents of which I would blush to relate.
SD
SD
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againstgravity - I have just picked up on a point you said in a previous post.
I may have incorrectly interpreted into this.
........." it increases the guesswork (speed) in flare. "
At the final stage of the flare, and just prior to the point of holding off, there is no guesswork. You have no further need to be looking at the ASI at this
point. Just hold off and you may or may not hear the stall warner.
In other words, fly parallel to the runway about 6" off and just increase back pressure in small denominations as you feel the sink. If she is remaining
parallel momentarily , hold the stick in that position and then again apply back pressure only when you feel more sink. The idea is that the mains touch first while you are holding the nose wheel off. At this point, don't make the fatal mistake of letting the column go for the nose wheel to thump down and equally, do not pull all the remaining elevator back causing a tail strike (or if you are too fast - to become airborne again.)
I may have incorrectly interpreted into this.
........." it increases the guesswork (speed) in flare. "
At the final stage of the flare, and just prior to the point of holding off, there is no guesswork. You have no further need to be looking at the ASI at this
point. Just hold off and you may or may not hear the stall warner.
In other words, fly parallel to the runway about 6" off and just increase back pressure in small denominations as you feel the sink. If she is remaining
parallel momentarily , hold the stick in that position and then again apply back pressure only when you feel more sink. The idea is that the mains touch first while you are holding the nose wheel off. At this point, don't make the fatal mistake of letting the column go for the nose wheel to thump down and equally, do not pull all the remaining elevator back causing a tail strike (or if you are too fast - to become airborne again.)
Last edited by Jetblu; 2nd May 2013 at 20:59.
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......In other words, try to stop it touching down by progressive back pressure just above the runway. When it runs out of energy, it will sink gently onto the main wheels despite best efforts to further hold it off. As the speed further falls the nosewheel will land as well.
It does take a while to judge that 'just above the runway' point but you will get it eventually. Initially you might hold off too high, in which case it will run out of energy a bit too high and land heavily. With experience, you'll learn to recognise that 'running out of lift too high' situation as your seat-of-the-pants feels the sudden sink, and cushion the the subsequent touchdown with a bit of power. Holding off too late will mean a hard touchdown and might result in a bounce.
It does take a while to judge that 'just above the runway' point but you will get it eventually. Initially you might hold off too high, in which case it will run out of energy a bit too high and land heavily. With experience, you'll learn to recognise that 'running out of lift too high' situation as your seat-of-the-pants feels the sudden sink, and cushion the the subsequent touchdown with a bit of power. Holding off too late will mean a hard touchdown and might result in a bounce.
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I am asking this question in all sincerity and hope no one thinks I am trying to start another series of arguments..
When describing the method of judging vertical distance from the runway after the flare and up to actual touch down I notice a lot of pilots tell you to " Feel the sink ".
I have never been able to judge sink by " Feel " the only reliable method of determining sink for me has been " By sight " in other words I see the sink and adjust attitude and or power as needed.
Sight is what determines situational awareness especially in the latter stages of a landing.
Sure I understand that when there is a slight change in G load such as in a downdraft you can feel the change......or a change in velocity if the change is abrupt you can feel it but I do not rely on feel for my height above the landing surface.......I have to " see " it.
Changes in control pressures also can be felt......but the feel part is a very small portion of the big picture of where the runway is and what my closure rate towards or away from it is.... ..... I rely on the sight picture for that.
There I hope I said all that right..
When describing the method of judging vertical distance from the runway after the flare and up to actual touch down I notice a lot of pilots tell you to " Feel the sink ".
I have never been able to judge sink by " Feel " the only reliable method of determining sink for me has been " By sight " in other words I see the sink and adjust attitude and or power as needed.
Sight is what determines situational awareness especially in the latter stages of a landing.
Sure I understand that when there is a slight change in G load such as in a downdraft you can feel the change......or a change in velocity if the change is abrupt you can feel it but I do not rely on feel for my height above the landing surface.......I have to " see " it.
Changes in control pressures also can be felt......but the feel part is a very small portion of the big picture of where the runway is and what my closure rate towards or away from it is.... ..... I rely on the sight picture for that.
There I hope I said all that right..
Last edited by Chuck Ellsworth; 2nd May 2013 at 21:27.
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You may well be right, Chuck. I think it's both, but I'm not sure. You see it and 'feel the bottom falling out of your world' simulataneaously. At least that how it feels to me as I whack on some power to cushion what I thought was going to be a smooth touchdown. Truth is, I don't really know.... I just 'do it!'.
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When teaching landings in a glider, I recommended beginning the flare/roundout at the height of an average elephant....nothing too sudden, a touch back on the stick, wait, back again, wait, looking well ahead, until the desired height above the dandelions, and just try to keep it airborne until it settles down....
The peripheral vision is making the judgement as to how many inches you are above the dandelions/tarmac/concrete etc.
The peripheral vision is making the judgement as to how many inches you are above the dandelions/tarmac/concrete etc.
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Chuck - you are bang on the money. You will only feel the sink with visual reference. Close your eyes, and you won't. This was demonstrated to me with an instructor many moons ago.
........and I'm not talking about a dive from 5000ft.
Shaggy - that is the problem. we have to actually think about it now as we do it second nature with not much thought.
........and I'm not talking about a dive from 5000ft.
Shaggy - that is the problem. we have to actually think about it now as we do it second nature with not much thought.
Last edited by Jetblu; 2nd May 2013 at 21:57.
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You're right, it is a combination of both......with no conscious transition between the two. That makes it hard to explain and teach, particularly to those who struggle with the hold off and then flare. And I was one.
Only after being told to fly the aircraft in the hold off down the runway did I get it. Up until then, I believed that the hold off and flare were pretty much a single and same event.
Only after being told to fly the aircraft in the hold off down the runway did I get it. Up until then, I believed that the hold off and flare were pretty much a single and same event.