R112: Are you going?
Joined: Feb 2006
Posts: 307
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From: London
It looks like they prioritize processing flight plans for the same day, and close to EOBT - I filed three for tomorrow, and four hours after submitting the first one I have no reply yet. Since the flight plan was submitted in almost identical form yesterday and approved, I am certain there is no formatting error and I am confident it will be approved evenyually (but hey, I have been called a hopeless optimist).
Thread Starter
Joined: Feb 2007
Posts: 4,598
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From: Amsterdam
Did anybody already have a plan delayed or rejected because of capacity issues?
Both on this and on the other forum it looks like a large number of outright rejections due to formatting issues, but I have not heard of any delays or rejections because of capacity.
Both on this and on the other forum it looks like a large number of outright rejections due to formatting issues, but I have not heard of any delays or rejections because of capacity.
Joined: Nov 2010
Posts: 632
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From: EU
Well I flew in the circuit today and I have to say I was flying the most tightest circuits ever. I was crapping myself that I had my squawk wrong (even though I heard the guy on the radio say it a multiple times) or that my circuits were too wide. Was expecting a tornado on my wing on the whole time.
Going to try and do a nav tomorrow flying to big places on an easy route.
Should be fine after a couple of flights!
Going to try and do a nav tomorrow flying to big places on an easy route.
Should be fine after a couple of flights!
Joined: Jul 2010
Posts: 156
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From: UK
I routinely fly Shoreham - Biggin VFR by giving Gatwick Director a call, and either get a direct clearance, with an altitude restriction, or told to route south and east of East Grinstead (or whatever). Depends on time of day, traffic, vis. etc. - I can see one could be a ******* nuisance when it's busy.
So how would this work with R112/Atlas? I intended to use SkyDemon (what else?) for straightforward flight plan submission, but if I submit a direct route, surely there's not much chance of getting it approved? Would Atlas coordinate with Gatwick? Are the exit-entry points generated by SD based on a simple as-the-crow-flies track intersecting with R112?
So how would this work with R112/Atlas? I intended to use SkyDemon (what else?) for straightforward flight plan submission, but if I submit a direct route, surely there's not much chance of getting it approved? Would Atlas coordinate with Gatwick? Are the exit-entry points generated by SD based on a simple as-the-crow-flies track intersecting with R112?
Last edited by FlyingGoat; 14th July 2012 at 16:55.
Joined: Jan 2011
Posts: 1
Likes: 0
From: London
Filing GA for Olympics with RocketRoute
RocketRoute Flight Planning made their Olympic changes on Friday 13th. They have now processed several hundred flight plan messages with ATLAS Control successfully.
Their words
"We operate a telephone support line for members.
We can confirm it is taking up to 2 hours to ACK a flight plan - so make sure you are filing well in advance (especially for commercial operators!).
If you are flying helicopters commercially into the zone during the Olympics or GA pilots flying between the rain clouds - we will keep you flying."
Try www.rocketroute.com
Free trial for 14 days!
Also there is a handy how to guide available on the blog.
RocketRoute does all the adjustments for your VFR and Y/Z IFR plans that you need to be compliant. Give it a try.
Their words
"We operate a telephone support line for members.
We can confirm it is taking up to 2 hours to ACK a flight plan - so make sure you are filing well in advance (especially for commercial operators!).
If you are flying helicopters commercially into the zone during the Olympics or GA pilots flying between the rain clouds - we will keep you flying."
Try www.rocketroute.com
Free trial for 14 days!
Also there is a handy how to guide available on the blog.
RocketRoute does all the adjustments for your VFR and Y/Z IFR plans that you need to be compliant. Give it a try.
Fly Conventional Gear
Joined: May 2007
Posts: 1,600
Likes: 0
From: Winchester
I'm outside the zone but at one of the "co-ordinated" airfields so if I want to file IFR I need a slot; I don't really see this as a problem since there isn't much IFR traffic usually at this airfield and in terms of the London airways capacity I think they have probably overestimated the increase in aircraft...the media have convinced everyone that the Olympics will be a disaster so there probably won't be that many people coming from abroad, all the traffic will be leaving!
Last edited by Contacttower; 14th July 2012 at 22:01.
Joined: Mar 2007
Posts: 48
Likes: 0
From: Kent
I do worry that there will be low hour ppls that want to fly, get their flight plan approved, but then are so concerned about going off track that they spend the whole flight head down looking at their GPS and IPADs.
Pudocs post shows how much pressure this will add to new PPLs and those who dont fly too often - I'm sure there are going to be a lot more with this view - it will also add pressure in the cct (people not wanting to extend down wind or orbit to avoid conflict, for fear of going outside the cct boundaries).
I'm at Headcorn and am going to fly South of the Zone until I see how things progress - I really dont want to fly North only to find I can't get back because Atlas cancel my Flight Plan. Will see how things go around the cct and the South tomorrow...
Pudocs post shows how much pressure this will add to new PPLs and those who dont fly too often - I'm sure there are going to be a lot more with this view - it will also add pressure in the cct (people not wanting to extend down wind or orbit to avoid conflict, for fear of going outside the cct boundaries).
I'm at Headcorn and am going to fly South of the Zone until I see how things progress - I really dont want to fly North only to find I can't get back because Atlas cancel my Flight Plan. Will see how things go around the cct and the South tomorrow...
Joined: Nov 2008
Posts: 22
Likes: 0
From: Berkshire
Flight plans r112
Just tackling filing for a couple of flights of about 8 miles each way within 112, i.e to and from Reading to exit R112 out of W Waltham. Had AFPex filed plans rejected due to minor route errors (put in ICAO designators in route field, doh), ATLAS operatives don't seem to be using any discretion to allow for rusty flight planners - there again they are probably RAF. My only advice - get it absolutely right first time otherwise you're into the ghastly scenario of sending CNL messages before you can refile. Also plan really early, unlike me who left it to the last moment due to the glorious summer weather. Looks like I may be staying in the circuit today!
Early days I suppose, we'll get the hang of it. Good job I'm off to KOSH for most of the duration of the games though.
Early days I suppose, we'll get the hang of it. Good job I'm off to KOSH for most of the duration of the games though.
Joined: Dec 2011
Posts: 2,460
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(put in ICAO designators in route field, doh), ATLAS operatives don't seem to be using any discretion to allow for rusty flight planners - there again they are probably RAF
It is only in the VFR flight plan system, where nobody (in the UK, anyway) looks at the route being filed, that one could use invalid waypoint names.
In the UK you could normally file a route like
EGKA DCT SFD DCT KTM DCT VNKT DCT EGMD
(where KTM is a VOR at Kathmandu, or a couple of other similarly distant places, and VNKT is Kathmandu itself)
with an estimated enroute time of 1hr, in a 100kt aircraft, and it won't be rejected
One has to blame the PPL training system for not covering this stuff, and thus delivering a product which doesn't enable people (who paid £10k for an ICAO compliant PPL) to fly anywhere significant.
Thread Starter
Joined: Feb 2007
Posts: 4,598
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From: Amsterdam
and it won't be rejected
But on a more serious note: We are supposed to enter the VFR departure designator in the route field when we depart from Rotterdam. So a normal, minimal flight plan would contain nothing more than "H", to identify the Hotel departure. Works fine. But suppose I'm going to fly through R112 to EGSF later this week. My flight plan will then look like this: "H DCT COA DCT KOK DCT KONAN DCT DVR DCT DET DCT LAM DCT BPK DCT" (or something like that - I still need to identify the entry and exit points for R112).
But will that flight plan be rejected by Atlas Control because the "H" designator is not a formal allowed route element, even though that designator is required by Rotterdam?
I have seen peoples plans being rejected because they used "MK" (an NDB near Calais) as a waypoint already.
Joined: Nov 2008
Posts: 22
Likes: 0
From: Berkshire
R112 first experience
Thanks peterh337 for the lesson in flight planning! Me, 40 years flying and also working professionally in aviation, but rather rusty at filling in the forms and done in a rush this morning (big mistake). But, joy of joys, all worked out in the end far better than expected. ATLAS sent all the messages by text and internet in good time, all the controllers (about 3 per trip including Farnborough radar itself) performed well considering only the second day of operation. My advice, again get it right first time to avoid problems, do it all in good time and perhaps if you're doing multiple flight plans add your own unique for each plan reference in the RMK field to ensure you cancel the correct one if you have to. Or use Sky Demon or another handy internet tool to do it all for you the simple way.
Talked to some people who had difficulty getting into the initial contact freq due to congestion today, but no problems for me. I'm sure it will get even better as the system beds in. Seemed quiet in the air and at the airfield today considering the break in the weather, I wonder if people have been scared off by the perceived hassle.
Talked to some people who had difficulty getting into the initial contact freq due to congestion today, but no problems for me. I'm sure it will get even better as the system beds in. Seemed quiet in the air and at the airfield today considering the break in the weather, I wonder if people have been scared off by the perceived hassle.