R112: Are you going?
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R112: Are you going?
As of midnight tonight (23Z) the R112 and P111 will be active, and will stay active for the next month. Whether these restrictions are necessary and appropriate has been discussed before at many levels, so let's not discuss that again. The NOTAMs are out, the Atlas controllers have been trained, SkyDemon released the new UK maps with the Temporary CAS and other Olympic areas/restrictions yesterday, the procedures (and presumably the Tornadoes and Pumas as well) are in place, and the CAA has spent a lot of effort getting everybody up to speed.
My question: Now what? Will all that effort be wasted and will the Atlas Control frequencies stay eerie quiet, or will GA continue as normal, despite the restrictions? So for all you pilots based around London, or those planning to go near London:
Have you relocated your aircraft to a place far, far away?
Will you simply suspend flying for a month? Or limit yourself to circuits under one of those circuit squawks?
Will you sigh, follow the rules and try to consider the situation "normal"?
Will you see this as a challenge and deliberately plan a flight in/through R112 even though there would be no need?
For me personally, I originally did not think that R112 would affect me. But I have now enrolled in the aeros contest at Peterborough Conington, which runs next week Thu-Sat. If the weather (particularly visibility) is fine, I'll just do an EHRD DCT EGSF but if I have doubts about the visibility over the North Sea (I'm not instrument rated and neither is the plane), I'm going to try and route KOK DCT DVR DCT DET DCT LAM DCT BPK DCT. To be decided at least two hours in advance of course...
My question: Now what? Will all that effort be wasted and will the Atlas Control frequencies stay eerie quiet, or will GA continue as normal, despite the restrictions? So for all you pilots based around London, or those planning to go near London:
Have you relocated your aircraft to a place far, far away?
Will you simply suspend flying for a month? Or limit yourself to circuits under one of those circuit squawks?
Will you sigh, follow the rules and try to consider the situation "normal"?
Will you see this as a challenge and deliberately plan a flight in/through R112 even though there would be no need?
For me personally, I originally did not think that R112 would affect me. But I have now enrolled in the aeros contest at Peterborough Conington, which runs next week Thu-Sat. If the weather (particularly visibility) is fine, I'll just do an EHRD DCT EGSF but if I have doubts about the visibility over the North Sea (I'm not instrument rated and neither is the plane), I'm going to try and route KOK DCT DVR DCT DET DCT LAM DCT BPK DCT. To be decided at least two hours in advance of course...
Last edited by BackPacker; 13th Jul 2012 at 20:40.
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I live in midlands so will stay away from there... Its only for a few months im sure with our weather i wont be flying much in that time anyway. If i do, i can always go up!
I fly from a field in the zone, and am relocating to France for 3 weeks - to get away from both air and ground borne b*****cks. Will be interesting to see how LARS services deteriorate elsewhere in UK.
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"My" a/c is based within the zone; actually the factor which seems most likely to limit my activity is the weather (which, as far as I'm aware, is about the only thing which LOCOG, the Gov't and bureaucrats can't try to control!)
As I like to "travel" for a couple of days rather than just fly, a weather window needs to be open in which I can have some expectation of a return on a certain day. That doesn't look like happening in the next two weeks.
If it does, I shall try to run the gauntlet of the flight planning system.
As I like to "travel" for a couple of days rather than just fly, a weather window needs to be open in which I can have some expectation of a return on a certain day. That doesn't look like happening in the next two weeks.
If it does, I shall try to run the gauntlet of the flight planning system.
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The staff at the airfield from which I fly, located witin the Prohibited Zone, have been briefed such that they can offer maximum assistance to pilots. I am certain that this applies to the other airfields within the Prohibited and Restricted Zones.
I must declare an interest since I used to be, but since the end of February have no longer been, the Airport Manager at the airport from which I fly. Therefore whilst I started the ball rolling the plans are the result of the efforts of the current management.
The restrictions will cause some disruption, but with a little pre-planning this should be minimal.
If pilots spent as much time pre-planning as they do I whinging about the restrictions then they could still enjoy flying this summer (if we ever get a summer!).
I must declare an interest since I used to be, but since the end of February have no longer been, the Airport Manager at the airport from which I fly. Therefore whilst I started the ball rolling the plans are the result of the efforts of the current management.
The restrictions will cause some disruption, but with a little pre-planning this should be minimal.
If pilots spent as much time pre-planning as they do I whinging about the restrictions then they could still enjoy flying this summer (if we ever get a summer!).
Last edited by Another_CFI; 13th Jul 2012 at 21:52.
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I fly from a field in the zone, and am relocating to France for 3 weeks - to get away from both air and ground borne b*****cks. Will be interesting to see how LARS services deteriorate elsewhere in UK.
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We operate a Jodel out of White Waltham without transponder and as a group resigned ourselves to being grounded for the R112 period. We'd need hangarage and couldn't persuade the rest of the group this was a viable option outside the restricted zone.
WLAC at WW are organising big fly-outs with their club aircraft away from London area, which seems sensible.
Lenhamlad - Out of interest, does the Headcorn dispensation count for the Tiger Club guys as well? I was thinking I might give them a call to see if could get some DH82 flying but thought they might be grounded due to being transponder-less.
WLAC at WW are organising big fly-outs with their club aircraft away from London area, which seems sensible.
Lenhamlad - Out of interest, does the Headcorn dispensation count for the Tiger Club guys as well? I was thinking I might give them a call to see if could get some DH82 flying but thought they might be grounded due to being transponder-less.
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I am based outside the zone and can probably avoid flying through it; will go around it if I have to. I rarely fly to somewhere where I can drive to in a similar time.
The easier solution (going IFR) is likely to be clobbered by the very limited IFR slots (1 per hour, at the usually relevant time) where I am based. That also b*ggers trips abroad even if the flight goes directly out of UK airspace, though I may have found a way around that (file V on a pre-validated Eurocontrol route and ask foreign ATC to change the V to an I).
I am suprised there are people operating "normal" planes without a transponder, because the options for going abroad are now very limited.
The easier solution (going IFR) is likely to be clobbered by the very limited IFR slots (1 per hour, at the usually relevant time) where I am based. That also b*ggers trips abroad even if the flight goes directly out of UK airspace, though I may have found a way around that (file V on a pre-validated Eurocontrol route and ask foreign ATC to change the V to an I).
I am suprised there are people operating "normal" planes without a transponder, because the options for going abroad are now very limited.
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Peter - I agree we should have a transponder on the plane, however:
- Rest of group not keen on cost
- Have several engineers in group and they say weight is perhaps a show-stopper
- We never go abroad in her, so that's not an issue. If we were to do a special trip, I guess we would need to look at it.
This a special case of being grounded I guess.
- Rest of group not keen on cost
- Have several engineers in group and they say weight is perhaps a show-stopper
- We never go abroad in her, so that's not an issue. If we were to do a special trip, I guess we would need to look at it.
This a special case of being grounded I guess.
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Seemed a no-brainer. My Annual was due by August 3rd, so escaped the zone and took to CAMO on Wednesday. If it's ready before the restrictions end, I'll be outside the zone and can fly from there until I bring her back.
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Have several engineers in group and they say weight is perhaps a show-stopper
The average UK pilot has the potential to save a whole IFR panel's worth in this way
You could also try the argument that they are invisible to anyone with one of these (or similar) which is an increasing number of planes nowadays - as well as all commercial ones. A very small risk but not nice when your number comes up.
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What's all the fuss?
What am I missing? My club is in the heart of the restricted zone and the negativity down here about it all is absolutely unreal. Why? What on earth am I missing?
The way I see it, the CAA said on a really nice flying day on a weekend there are just over 300 flights within the zone. Now, add in the fact the weather isn't great and the fact a lot of people will be put off flying within the zone, I recon on a mediocre weather day during the week there will be little over 100 flights, my opinion obviously. So why is there such a massive fuss over the olympics at my flying club?
I told them yesterday I was going to fly regularly in the restricted zone and I got messages like "good luck", "ha have fun with that" and even an instructor said he's taking the month off work. Everybody thinks the world's coming to an end and they said I shouldn't fly. WHY?
What's the fuss? It's all straight forward! Somebody tell me what I'm missing, this is how I think it goes.
-File a flight plan 24-2hrs before
-Wait for approval
-Take off
-Remain in ATZ until contact with Atlas
-Fly a flight like you would any other day of the year
I'm filing 24 hours before so I make sure I get in early and have my slot, if I get a revised EOBT then no problem.
I'm really shocked how negative everyone is towards it, I personally think it's a great time to improve my navigation and get used to working more efficiently.
The way I see it, the CAA said on a really nice flying day on a weekend there are just over 300 flights within the zone. Now, add in the fact the weather isn't great and the fact a lot of people will be put off flying within the zone, I recon on a mediocre weather day during the week there will be little over 100 flights, my opinion obviously. So why is there such a massive fuss over the olympics at my flying club?
I told them yesterday I was going to fly regularly in the restricted zone and I got messages like "good luck", "ha have fun with that" and even an instructor said he's taking the month off work. Everybody thinks the world's coming to an end and they said I shouldn't fly. WHY?
What's the fuss? It's all straight forward! Somebody tell me what I'm missing, this is how I think it goes.
-File a flight plan 24-2hrs before
-Wait for approval
-Take off
-Remain in ATZ until contact with Atlas
-Fly a flight like you would any other day of the year
I'm filing 24 hours before so I make sure I get in early and have my slot, if I get a revised EOBT then no problem.
I'm really shocked how negative everyone is towards it, I personally think it's a great time to improve my navigation and get used to working more efficiently.
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I had thought it would be okay for me to file a flight plan to fly out of and back into the restricted zone and base at another airfield for the day. It would need to be a good weather day obviously to keep to the plan. The Olympic Airspace website suggests fixed wing aircraft need a mode A/C or S transponder, but I've been hearing recently that it has to be C or S to fly in the restricted zone. Since my aircraft has a mode C transponder but is placarded "No Alt Data", I'm now not sure I can fly at all.
This might be a good excuse for a flying holiday though!
This might be a good excuse for a flying holiday though!
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pudoc, it seems the rejection rate is fairly high at the moment. One reason is quite minor errors and timing.
I'd say the wait for approval bit will have to be thought through especially if your plan is rejected close to the 2 hour cut off.
SGC
I'd say the wait for approval bit will have to be thought through especially if your plan is rejected close to the 2 hour cut off.
SGC
Yesterday it was sometimes (but not always) taking up to 5 hours for the acknowledgement to come through from Atlas, so don't file for 2 hours hence and expect to get away. Also the Atlas phone number was engaged for long periods so if you haven't received your approval by your ETD you might not get through to ask about it.
One problem we've identified is air tests. What if you get airborne to test something, get 3 or 4 miles away on your planned and approved route, then find you need to land again to make an adjustment; you'll need to get airborne again asap to check if the adjustment works but you can't as you'll have to re-file and wait for approval again.
One problem we've identified is air tests. What if you get airborne to test something, get 3 or 4 miles away on your planned and approved route, then find you need to land again to make an adjustment; you'll need to get airborne again asap to check if the adjustment works but you can't as you'll have to re-file and wait for approval again.
Last edited by chevvron; 14th Jul 2012 at 11:21.
Well we're grounded at a mostly microlight strip with 10 a/c and only two with transponders. Parking such a/c for 5 weeks out in the open is not a serious option. One sub 115 kg flex owner has ferried it to a chum's strip for the duration, but has to endure open storage.
Our location is only a tantalisingly 5 miles inside the outer ring - "so near but yet so far". We tried hard for an approval for a route out, but the CAA apparently had no freedom to apply common sense to what is a well known & long established entity. Naturally we have no recourse or financial compensation, so personally the Olympics are a very expensive imposition.
We had thought of a Mallory 'Big Wing' fly out, but in practice our usual 'jollys' are mostly done when individuals pop down to the field as time & wx permit. So even if we each bought the cheapest £1500 'S' transponder & DIY installed, the rigid flight plan system would likely scupper us.
Lucky Headcorn.
mike hallam.
Our location is only a tantalisingly 5 miles inside the outer ring - "so near but yet so far". We tried hard for an approval for a route out, but the CAA apparently had no freedom to apply common sense to what is a well known & long established entity. Naturally we have no recourse or financial compensation, so personally the Olympics are a very expensive imposition.
We had thought of a Mallory 'Big Wing' fly out, but in practice our usual 'jollys' are mostly done when individuals pop down to the field as time & wx permit. So even if we each bought the cheapest £1500 'S' transponder & DIY installed, the rigid flight plan system would likely scupper us.
Lucky Headcorn.
mike hallam.
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Lenhamlad - Out of interest, does the Headcorn dispensation count for the Tiger Club guys as well? I was thinking I might give them a call to see if could get some DH82 flying but thought they might be grounded due to being transponder-less.
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2 simple (linked) Flt Plans submitted ~1330Z today.
O/B was approved in ~25mins. The return after ~1h10mins.
A little concerned about the delay for the latter - in that they were linked I would have thought the approvals would be have been quite close? I'll eMail them and see...
Also, the 1st one also had a text message ~2mins after Afpex. Still awaiting the 2nd text message (after 15mins)...
NoD
O/B was approved in ~25mins. The return after ~1h10mins.
A little concerned about the delay for the latter - in that they were linked I would have thought the approvals would be have been quite close? I'll eMail them and see...
Also, the 1st one also had a text message ~2mins after Afpex. Still awaiting the 2nd text message (after 15mins)...
NoD
Last edited by NigelOnDraft; 14th Jul 2012 at 14:54.