R112: Are you going?
Well, I've learned something new today.
However, I'll still stick with my 'direct' approach as the Airways Reporting points on the FIR boundary are up to 18 miles apart and precious few are on the routes I regularly fly.
For me, it's easier to create a user waypoint at an arbitrary point on the boundary (just touch it!); I've never been asked for lat/long details or name of a specific point on the boundary, just ETA. With Products like Sky Demon, one doesn't even need to know the lat/long as it populates the FPL automatically.
Onwards and upwards...
However, I'll still stick with my 'direct' approach as the Airways Reporting points on the FIR boundary are up to 18 miles apart and precious few are on the routes I regularly fly.
For me, it's easier to create a user waypoint at an arbitrary point on the boundary (just touch it!); I've never been asked for lat/long details or name of a specific point on the boundary, just ETA. With Products like Sky Demon, one doesn't even need to know the lat/long as it populates the FPL automatically.
Onwards and upwards...
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I couldn't see those waypoints on the 1/2 mill CAA charts, although they appear in search results in Sky Demon. How would a VFR pilot normally find and use these waypoints and others that aren't shown?
Look along the FIR boundary.
These waypoints is also one reason I like the French 1:1M SIA charts, which show them all over France. Makes route planning easy. The other French charts (Cartabossy and IGN) don't show them, and neither IIRC do the Jepps.
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Well, the FPL Filing was a Doddle
Just filed FPLs for tomorrow via SkyDemon for a flight from Elstree and return.
My first FPLs for ten years.
Both approved by text message within 30 minutes. No complaints there.
Even if the weather forecast for tomorrow probably means that there have been few filings today (and a very likely cancellation of my own FPLs in the morning) it is encouraging to get such a quick response, especially after the concerns raised elsewhere.
Alexa
My first FPLs for ten years.
Both approved by text message within 30 minutes. No complaints there.
Even if the weather forecast for tomorrow probably means that there have been few filings today (and a very likely cancellation of my own FPLs in the morning) it is encouraging to get such a quick response, especially after the concerns raised elsewhere.
Alexa
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Based at Redhill, today was my first flight out of R112 to a private site near Dover AM and return PM. Helicopter G-**MY if anyone from Atlas is reading.
FP filed 2hr 7min prior to departure, accepted and text received in 30 minutes without any issues.
OUTBOUND
Tried to activate the FP with EGKR tower 20 minutes prior to the stated departure time, to leave closer to our desired departure time; this was accepted without a problem.
Leaving EGKR east, we were passed on to to Atlas for Basic service. The FP plan called for North of Lash - offered South if it would help, and accepted gratefully.
Nothing more until reaching the boundary, wished a safe flight and signed-off. No drama, no issues.
RETURN
Lifted from private site on time, called up N of Ashford with authorisation code; it was accepted and we were passed on to Atlas controller for basic service. Cloud was lowering as we progressed, and we never reached the maximum altitude that we had agreed (not above 1500 ft). We routed N of Lash then following the railway towards EGKR.
Approaching Tonbridge we were aware (through radio calls) of another helicopter leaving EGKR on a reciprical course approaching Tonbridge. Altitudes were going to be similar due to lowering cloud base so we made a position call. Controller asked why we were telling him our position, and we responded it was really to aid the other H. Controller confirmed 8 mile separation, reciprical course and within 100ft vertically then left the 2 machines to coordinate. The other H called overhead Tonbridge. We called North of railway line and they called "South". Shortly after both were visual. 1.5 mile separation, same height; no fuss and no worries.
We were passed on to EGKR for approach.
VERDICT
Given the need to control airspace in this way the disruption to our day was negligible. If we could have earlier clearance I would have preferred to leave an hour earlier, but I understand why this is not possible.
The service was "spot on", sensible, and I can't fault it. Particular appreciation for the controller letting the two machines coordinate on the return leg. Cloudbase was low and heights were going to be the same hence at <8 miles with a closing speed to 220 knt it was good to know where the other machine was going to be and that he knew where we would be.
Great job, thank you
FP filed 2hr 7min prior to departure, accepted and text received in 30 minutes without any issues.
OUTBOUND
Tried to activate the FP with EGKR tower 20 minutes prior to the stated departure time, to leave closer to our desired departure time; this was accepted without a problem.
Leaving EGKR east, we were passed on to to Atlas for Basic service. The FP plan called for North of Lash - offered South if it would help, and accepted gratefully.
Nothing more until reaching the boundary, wished a safe flight and signed-off. No drama, no issues.
RETURN
Lifted from private site on time, called up N of Ashford with authorisation code; it was accepted and we were passed on to Atlas controller for basic service. Cloud was lowering as we progressed, and we never reached the maximum altitude that we had agreed (not above 1500 ft). We routed N of Lash then following the railway towards EGKR.
Approaching Tonbridge we were aware (through radio calls) of another helicopter leaving EGKR on a reciprical course approaching Tonbridge. Altitudes were going to be similar due to lowering cloud base so we made a position call. Controller asked why we were telling him our position, and we responded it was really to aid the other H. Controller confirmed 8 mile separation, reciprical course and within 100ft vertically then left the 2 machines to coordinate. The other H called overhead Tonbridge. We called North of railway line and they called "South". Shortly after both were visual. 1.5 mile separation, same height; no fuss and no worries.
We were passed on to EGKR for approach.
VERDICT
Given the need to control airspace in this way the disruption to our day was negligible. If we could have earlier clearance I would have preferred to leave an hour earlier, but I understand why this is not possible.
The service was "spot on", sensible, and I can't fault it. Particular appreciation for the controller letting the two machines coordinate on the return leg. Cloudbase was low and heights were going to be the same hence at <8 miles with a closing speed to 220 knt it was good to know where the other machine was going to be and that he knew where we would be.
Great job, thank you
Last edited by John R81; 18th Jul 2012 at 19:28.
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R112
Hi,
I used Atlas control for the first time Tuesday and again Wednesday this week from Beccles EGSM to Shoreham EGKA and back the following day. Routed DCT CLN DCT CLN230018 DCT SND (southend) DCT DET DCT MAY DCT MAY240008 DCT
The radials from MAY and CLN are the entry points into and out of R112. All went well VFR there and IFR return the Atlas Controllers are all helpful (Farnborough radio really) simply give your authorisation code and request the type of service you want. I filed using AFPEX.
Maule man
I used Atlas control for the first time Tuesday and again Wednesday this week from Beccles EGSM to Shoreham EGKA and back the following day. Routed DCT CLN DCT CLN230018 DCT SND (southend) DCT DET DCT MAY DCT MAY240008 DCT
The radials from MAY and CLN are the entry points into and out of R112. All went well VFR there and IFR return the Atlas Controllers are all helpful (Farnborough radio really) simply give your authorisation code and request the type of service you want. I filed using AFPEX.
Maule man
Peterh337: They have always been on the 1:500k CAA VFR charts.
JohnR81
Nice report (and when is your aircraft going to be gracing the skies again?!). I've done a few flights to and from EGLM and various private sites within R112. All VFR and most included class D crossings. Very competent and pragmatic controllers, particularly as the patchy viz over the last few days required some flexibility in routing.
The only cock-up was one of my FPLs wasn't acknowledged with an approval number (filed using Sky Demon), so after 10 hours and with my scheduled departure slot looming, I put in a quick phone call to Atlas which apologised and fixed it in seconds. All other FPLs have been approved and I've received my confirmation within 30 mins.
We don't want to be too generous with the applause though; the powers that be might decide to keep it after the Olympics...
Nice report (and when is your aircraft going to be gracing the skies again?!). I've done a few flights to and from EGLM and various private sites within R112. All VFR and most included class D crossings. Very competent and pragmatic controllers, particularly as the patchy viz over the last few days required some flexibility in routing.
The only cock-up was one of my FPLs wasn't acknowledged with an approval number (filed using Sky Demon), so after 10 hours and with my scheduled departure slot looming, I put in a quick phone call to Atlas which apologised and fixed it in seconds. All other FPLs have been approved and I've received my confirmation within 30 mins.
We don't want to be too generous with the applause though; the powers that be might decide to keep it after the Olympics...
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I don't use 1/2 mill charts anymore; the latest I have is Ed. 29
The intersection names change from time to time. I got my PPL 11 years ago and have always been using those points on flight plans.
I got those names straight off the chart hanging on the wall above my desk, so they exist for sure.
What Skydemon shows or not is up to them, but showing intersections, particularly on FIR boundaries, is pretty useful.
Last edited by peterh337; 19th Jul 2012 at 14:00.
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I don't know if this has been reported or not. I was flying EHRD-EGSF yesterday. Essentially DCT, so not anywhere near the R112. But I was in contact with London Info and heard a lot of conversations between them and various aircraft headed that way.
London Info asked these aircraft, as they were coasting in over DVR, for their authorization code, and came back a few minutes later with the Atlas squawk and contact frequency. So they had already coordinated things over the landline, which really smoothed things out for the aircraft concerned. Which was particularly nice given the weather conditions. So thumbs up for London Info.
Didn't help the pilots of the Dutch aircraft headed to Biggin Hill without authorization though. But London Info, with its usual infinite patience, explained them that, no, they could not continue and had to divert to their designated alternate (Lydd) who sure would be able to sort out their onwards route to Biggin for them. How many NOTAMs do you have to miss before you can set off for Biggin, blissfully unaware of anything happening in the London area?
London Info asked these aircraft, as they were coasting in over DVR, for their authorization code, and came back a few minutes later with the Atlas squawk and contact frequency. So they had already coordinated things over the landline, which really smoothed things out for the aircraft concerned. Which was particularly nice given the weather conditions. So thumbs up for London Info.
Didn't help the pilots of the Dutch aircraft headed to Biggin Hill without authorization though. But London Info, with its usual infinite patience, explained them that, no, they could not continue and had to divert to their designated alternate (Lydd) who sure would be able to sort out their onwards route to Biggin for them. How many NOTAMs do you have to miss before you can set off for Biggin, blissfully unaware of anything happening in the London area?
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My estimate is that 50% of UK pilots never get notams (from e.g. how many turn up at Shoreham not knowing the ATIS has changed) and I don't see why this should be very different abroad 
There are whole sub-communities out there Non-radio, non-notams, non-weather. I know a 2k hr pilot who cannot work out tafs and metars. He's a very competent pilot though.
The only opportunity to reach these people is on the 2-yearly revalidation flight, but that doesn't happen, evidently. I guess the pilot only has to say he never goes outside the local circuit, and that deals with that...
There are whole sub-communities out there
Non-radio, non-notams, non-weather. I know a 2k hr pilot who cannot work out tafs and metars. He's a very competent pilot though.The only opportunity to reach these people is on the 2-yearly revalidation flight, but that doesn't happen, evidently. I guess the pilot only has to say he never goes outside the local circuit, and that deals with that...
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TTB
EC120 is about a week away from ground runs and will be back after that. I'm holding off on the respray for now as there is still charter work to be had. Until then I am driving the R44 (slumming it, one might say).
Unfortunately, the charter work I am losing for the 120 is not heading for the 44, but for the 130 parked next to me. I suppose most people hope to have just one set of weding photos, though!
EC120 is about a week away from ground runs and will be back after that. I'm holding off on the respray for now as there is still charter work to be had. Until then I am driving the R44 (slumming it, one might say).
Unfortunately, the charter work I am losing for the 120 is not heading for the 44, but for the 130 parked next to me. I suppose most people hope to have just one set of weding photos, though!
A quick heads up for those that use the Airway points for FPLs during the Olympics. I saw the below in here (Q4):
[John - good to hear; will call you next week...]
TTB
The system being used by Atlas does not accept all the options for flight planning detailed in CAP694 (The UK Flight planning Guide) and will generally only accept an 11 character lat/long or a range and bearing from a three letter beacon. So, in many circumstances, for example where a five character boundary point is not in the system database, it cannot be used.
TTB
Q15, from the same FAQ (I'm a slow reader 
):
):
Q15. How should I file a plan for a flight landing outside the UK FIR – do I need an EET for the FIR boundary? And will the system recognise an ICAO airport code outside the UK FIR?
A15. Yes, you need to use an EET for the FIR boundary otherwise the system will not recognise that the airfield you wish to fly to is outside the UK and will therefore reject your flight plan for an unknown location.
For example, the route field must contain an FIR crossing point ie 5127N00038W and field 18 must contain the EET to that point ie EET/5127N00038W0026
The system being used by Atlas does not accept all the options for flight planning detailed in CAP694 (The UK Flight planning Guide) and will only accept an 11 character lat/long or a range and bearing from a three letter beacon. So, a five character boundary point for example cannot be used.
A15. Yes, you need to use an EET for the FIR boundary otherwise the system will not recognise that the airfield you wish to fly to is outside the UK and will therefore reject your flight plan for an unknown location.
For example, the route field must contain an FIR crossing point ie 5127N00038W and field 18 must contain the EET to that point ie EET/5127N00038W0026
The system being used by Atlas does not accept all the options for flight planning detailed in CAP694 (The UK Flight planning Guide) and will only accept an 11 character lat/long or a range and bearing from a three letter beacon. So, a five character boundary point for example cannot be used.
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Hi latest update from Atlas - including details of extra capacity that is now in place to improve the flight planning approval process and that an additional Initial Contact Frequency (ICF) has been added to increase capacity during the busiest periods. Full details here Atlas Control announces improvements in flight plan handling and initial contact frequencies
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vfr filing
responding to some of the earlier remarks about vfr flightplanning. I often just file direct. this works absolutely briliant.
for example
guernsey - rotterdam .. direct
rotterdam - pula ... direct..
i will specify an estimated time to the boundaries offcourse.
very often flying vfr i will just literaly fly direct and circumnavigate any obstacle i encounter .. then again .. i fly vfr with a gps and not with a stopwatch and .... (the old way) which is to say that i can imagine that also being a nice experience, i am like to use all modern electronics and tools.. And I fly distances.. not just messing about in a close area.
for example if i fly to pula from rotterdam i know i will have to be slightly north near the belgium border.. and that frankfurt and stuttgart airspace neads to be avoided (at altitude they rarely allow crossings)
and at the alps you will need to climb to fl150-170 which is not a problem for my aircraft.
I am much more interested in the weather.. the top of clouds.. wether the alps are clear and if there are embedded cb's and thunderstorms..
also I am interested in all the traffic surrounding me.. there for I am getting a TAS605. Often I have had an aircraft on the radio very closeby and never saw him. (and they are actually transmitting).. what about those who do not even do that.!
filing vfr flightplans is a minor issue.. only when you get involved with atlas control ...ll
for example
guernsey - rotterdam .. direct
rotterdam - pula ... direct..
i will specify an estimated time to the boundaries offcourse.
very often flying vfr i will just literaly fly direct and circumnavigate any obstacle i encounter .. then again .. i fly vfr with a gps and not with a stopwatch and .... (the old way) which is to say that i can imagine that also being a nice experience, i am like to use all modern electronics and tools.. And I fly distances.. not just messing about in a close area.
for example if i fly to pula from rotterdam i know i will have to be slightly north near the belgium border.. and that frankfurt and stuttgart airspace neads to be avoided (at altitude they rarely allow crossings)
and at the alps you will need to climb to fl150-170 which is not a problem for my aircraft.
I am much more interested in the weather.. the top of clouds.. wether the alps are clear and if there are embedded cb's and thunderstorms..
also I am interested in all the traffic surrounding me.. there for I am getting a TAS605. Often I have had an aircraft on the radio very closeby and never saw him. (and they are actually transmitting).. what about those who do not even do that.!
filing vfr flightplans is a minor issue.. only when you get involved with atlas control ...ll
