The LAA forum
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To me, the difference is in the level of trust you place in the information you get from a forum. With anonymous postings here, everything needs to be taken with a serious pinch of salt.
On the LAA forum, you can verify who said what, and can trust that information to a much greater extent. People are accountable for what they say.
Other advantages, as others have said include because it isn't anonymous, it can be moderated with a very light touch. You just don't get trolls. There are pretty much no trolls who allow their real name to appear. This means that resources at the LAA can be kept in the things they do best.
The other thing is that this can only be changed after a resolution from the National Council. To get this changed, you will need agreement at the top level.
Now if only I had something interesting to contribute to the LAA forums I might register... (and I don't have my LAA number on me at the moment which doesn't help!)
On the LAA forum, you can verify who said what, and can trust that information to a much greater extent. People are accountable for what they say.
Other advantages, as others have said include because it isn't anonymous, it can be moderated with a very light touch. You just don't get trolls. There are pretty much no trolls who allow their real name to appear. This means that resources at the LAA can be kept in the things they do best.
The other thing is that this can only be changed after a resolution from the National Council. To get this changed, you will need agreement at the top level.
Now if only I had something interesting to contribute to the LAA forums I might register... (and I don't have my LAA number on me at the moment which doesn't help!)
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being a member of the LAA, they provide Why don't you actually join the LAA? Then it becomes "we" and you can participate fully?
being a member of the LAA, they provide Why don't you actually join the LAA? Then it becomes "we" and you can participate fully?
As a member it follows that I might be involved or at least interested in what other members have to say. I might even have something valuable to contribute but as long as doing so means that I have to make my business known to the entire internet population then I am not at all comfortable with it.
It appears that Stickandrudderman joined this forum in 06 and by chose a name very similar to mine - you've obviously got an issue with names!
I am one of those that posts under pseudonym BUT you are allowed to this IF you set up your profile to autosign your postings with your real name. I use a pseudonym to preserve consistency across all of the places I post. Simples.
Do you think if Paul Macartney bought himself a kit he would be happy to sign up to an internet forum and tell the world about it?
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Why not? If he was seeking advice from others on how to build or operate it?
The difference between the LAA forum and somewhere like PPrune is the LAA forum is for members of the LAA to support each other.
Really, what do you have to contribute that requires a mask of secrecy?
The difference between the LAA forum and somewhere like PPrune is the LAA forum is for members of the LAA to support each other.
Really, what do you have to contribute that requires a mask of secrecy?
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I had the temerity to choose a forum name that was similar to yours.
No umbrage taken but I do hope Ppruners don't confuse us - I try to help and encourage not whinge!!
Robert S Gerunkel
The forum is a bit moribund and self-congratulatory. But there are a number of posters who seem to be able to post under pseudonyms (planemike, Rod1, linspuk, colin330, Flyontrack etc etc), so it does seem a bit odd to make a rule for an individual
However the LAA is noticeably touchy about any criticism from members. They are fortunate in that the bulk of the membership are members who need a Permit and not by choice so they don't have to be that responsive to criticism.
However the LAA is noticeably touchy about any criticism from members. They are fortunate in that the bulk of the membership are members who need a Permit and not by choice so they don't have to be that responsive to criticism.
robin...........
Just for the record my full name ( Michael John BLAKE) does appear on my postings on the LAA forum. I have no problem with that: just feel that the "the powers that be" at the LAA should be a little more grown up and let people choose whether to use their own name or a "handle", after all we are adults.
One has the feeling that there is a group of folk in the LAA who are paranoid control freaks. As you say not too keen on hearing dissenting voices.
I hang around Prune and FlyPast forums where pseudonyms are the norm and have never really seen any major problems that cannot be overcome by some moderating where and when required. All and sundry can post on those forums whereas you have to be a member to post on the LAA website. Have to say the LAA website is pretty dull and not well supported.
Really, what do you have to contribute that requires a mask of secrecy?
Not really a matter of secrecy, just being allowed to choose, treated as adults.
Planemike............... (aka Michael J BLAKE )
Last edited by Planemike; 2nd Apr 2012 at 18:18.
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Thankyou Planemike for your support, and thank you to Rod 1, who despite his anonymity is a regular contributor of valuable information on this forum. Indeed thank you to all contributors.
You see, here we are having a nice discussion despite the attempts of a minority to steer it towards his own agenda, without having to reveal our identities.
I know who some of you are, and one or two know who I am, I have no problem with that.
I do have a problem with being forced to reveal my identity on a public forum which anybody can access, not just LAA members. If you think it is for members only, pop over there and cut a quote from someones post, paste it into google and see where you end up.
I also happen to think that the LAA forum is under-utilised as a result of this rule, which is a shame as it could be a very useful tool.
Further, it seems to me as if the LAA is run a bit like an "Old boys club". "This is the way we do things around here young man, now run along and don't cause a fuss, there's a good chap!"
You see, here we are having a nice discussion despite the attempts of a minority to steer it towards his own agenda, without having to reveal our identities.
I know who some of you are, and one or two know who I am, I have no problem with that.
I do have a problem with being forced to reveal my identity on a public forum which anybody can access, not just LAA members. If you think it is for members only, pop over there and cut a quote from someones post, paste it into google and see where you end up.
I also happen to think that the LAA forum is under-utilised as a result of this rule, which is a shame as it could be a very useful tool.
Further, it seems to me as if the LAA is run a bit like an "Old boys club". "This is the way we do things around here young man, now run along and don't cause a fuss, there's a good chap!"
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I'll have to copy my posts on the LAA forum to here so they can be preserved before they get deleted....
It's interesting to note that this thread has generated more response than any other on the first page of thread listings.
So, talk about fabrics, dopes, woods, paints, metals, engines, oils, greases, avionics, flight testing, progress reports, deosn't appear to interest anyone on here, but talk of forum rules does.
Go figure.
So, talk about fabrics, dopes, woods, paints, metals, engines, oils, greases, avionics, flight testing, progress reports, deosn't appear to interest anyone on here, but talk of forum rules does.
Go figure.
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And, as predicted, the "Old Boys" have removed my access rights not just to the forum, which is no great loss, but to the whole LAA site which rather proves my point.
stickandrudderman,
Grossly unfair...............!! Just what are they scared of.....?
Planemike
Grossly unfair...............!! Just what are they scared of.....?
Planemike
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stickandrudder, why not use your name on the LAA forum for the purpose of having the debate there. After the event you have the choice of not posting again, or changing your handle if you manage to get the rule changed.
Just a thought.
BB
Just a thought.
BB
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Just what are they scared of.....?
stickandrudder, why not use your name on the LAA forum for the purpose of having the debate there. After the event you have the choice of not posting again, or changing your handle if you manage to get the rule changed.
Just a thought.
Just a thought.
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Hmnn ... interesting debate.
I post as vee-tail on most forums.
But I sometimes think ... "Would I sign my real name to what I just posted"?
If the answer is no, then why not? ....
What is my motivation for posting?
Am I expecting/provoking retribution?
Am I indulging in 'whistle blowing' or troublemaking?
Signing your real name sure makes one check out the real reason for a post.
Mike Godsell
I post as vee-tail on most forums.
But I sometimes think ... "Would I sign my real name to what I just posted"?
If the answer is no, then why not? ....
What is my motivation for posting?
Am I expecting/provoking retribution?
Am I indulging in 'whistle blowing' or troublemaking?
Signing your real name sure makes one check out the real reason for a post.
Mike Godsell
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stickandrudderman
When the rule was brought in there was an option to apply for permission to continue to post as before providing there was a good reason. I applied for said permission and got it. If you have a good reason then you will get a fair hearing. As an example, anyone who is in at a certain level in an aviation related field and operates under a corporate communications policy would be braking there contract of employment by making public statements on an aviation forum. Said person probably has less control of the multinationals corporate communications policy than over the workings of the LAA.
Rod1
When the rule was brought in there was an option to apply for permission to continue to post as before providing there was a good reason. I applied for said permission and got it. If you have a good reason then you will get a fair hearing. As an example, anyone who is in at a certain level in an aviation related field and operates under a corporate communications policy would be braking there contract of employment by making public statements on an aviation forum. Said person probably has less control of the multinationals corporate communications policy than over the workings of the LAA.
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Having been "on the internet" since the days of 1990s Compuserve (remember 1200 baud dial-up?) and its stuffy forums where everybody was forced to appear under the full name of their credit card account (i.e. zero anonymity) I much prefer anonymous forums.
It's true that non-anon forums are more civilised but at the same time almost nobody posts there if the topic is even remotely political or controversial. And a lot of stuff in aviation that is useful to know is also controversial.... you could start with strategies on flight in icing conditions for example. Aviation is very political at times too. It is an awfully small scene in the UK... which also means that anybody who posts something nasty will be rumbled quickly because somebody will know him from where he flies from.
In most cases, if you really want to, you can work out the identity of a regular poster using google and other things, and anyway p p r u n e will be logging the IPs so it would be unwise to write something that is seriously bad (libel etc).
The PPL/IR forum, which someone mentioned, is mostly non-anon, with a policy whereby new members are requested to show their full name, but it has only about a dozen or so posters who ever write anything useful. It's a good forum if you want to ask a very technical question concerning regulation re IFR issues, but I found that otherwise anything controversial is jumped on by one of two individuals and the resulting argument is then deleted by the admin. When I was contacted about changing my nickname there to my full name, I said I would agree so long as all my previous posts are deleted, and they let it go. I rarely post there nowadays, because if I want to get some sort of response to a question one needs to post it a lot more widely, and likewise if one wants to draw attention to some regulatory issue. It is a members-only forum but anybody paying the £60 membership can join and read all the past posts, and this did once result in all kinds of legal threats (without apparent basis but unpleasant) from one well known aviation individual after he joined, and that was a big lesson for all after which the postings there dropped right down. The vast majority of PPL/IR members don't appear to access the forum there.
Here, most regulars know who I am which is fine. In fact I have met a fair % of them at one time or another. I also wouldn't write anything which I know is wrong or libellious. But the superficial anonymity does help protect you from somebody googling on your full name and getting tons of stuff on you.
The best aviation forums (for getting technical information, anyway) are American. They are all web based, and are the successors to the rec.aviation.* Usenet groups which were superb, and never equalled. All of these are anonymous. Go figure, as they say...
If you contact somebody privately, they give you their name anyway - first name at least. I recall only one exception in all the years. That bloke, an occassional poster here, signs his emails as Webmaster@..., and is prob99 a programmer who is working for some company while advertising his services on a website (which also doesn't reveal his name, bizzarely!) and he is playing it very carefully
The other thing is that if you enforce full names, people just make them up. This is what happens on the Socata owners forum (which also suffers from ludicrous moderation and almost nobody on there writes anything new and useful). I know a load of people there personally and some use made-up surnames. Pointless.
It's true that non-anon forums are more civilised but at the same time almost nobody posts there if the topic is even remotely political or controversial. And a lot of stuff in aviation that is useful to know is also controversial.... you could start with strategies on flight in icing conditions for example. Aviation is very political at times too. It is an awfully small scene in the UK... which also means that anybody who posts something nasty will be rumbled quickly because somebody will know him from where he flies from.
In most cases, if you really want to, you can work out the identity of a regular poster using google and other things, and anyway p p r u n e will be logging the IPs so it would be unwise to write something that is seriously bad (libel etc).
The PPL/IR forum, which someone mentioned, is mostly non-anon, with a policy whereby new members are requested to show their full name, but it has only about a dozen or so posters who ever write anything useful. It's a good forum if you want to ask a very technical question concerning regulation re IFR issues, but I found that otherwise anything controversial is jumped on by one of two individuals and the resulting argument is then deleted by the admin. When I was contacted about changing my nickname there to my full name, I said I would agree so long as all my previous posts are deleted, and they let it go. I rarely post there nowadays, because if I want to get some sort of response to a question one needs to post it a lot more widely, and likewise if one wants to draw attention to some regulatory issue. It is a members-only forum but anybody paying the £60 membership can join and read all the past posts, and this did once result in all kinds of legal threats (without apparent basis but unpleasant) from one well known aviation individual after he joined, and that was a big lesson for all after which the postings there dropped right down. The vast majority of PPL/IR members don't appear to access the forum there.
Here, most regulars know who I am which is fine. In fact I have met a fair % of them at one time or another. I also wouldn't write anything which I know is wrong or libellious. But the superficial anonymity does help protect you from somebody googling on your full name and getting tons of stuff on you.
The best aviation forums (for getting technical information, anyway) are American. They are all web based, and are the successors to the rec.aviation.* Usenet groups which were superb, and never equalled. All of these are anonymous. Go figure, as they say...
If you contact somebody privately, they give you their name anyway - first name at least. I recall only one exception in all the years. That bloke, an occassional poster here, signs his emails as Webmaster@..., and is prob99 a programmer who is working for some company while advertising his services on a website (which also doesn't reveal his name, bizzarely!) and he is playing it very carefully
The other thing is that if you enforce full names, people just make them up. This is what happens on the Socata owners forum (which also suffers from ludicrous moderation and almost nobody on there writes anything new and useful). I know a load of people there personally and some use made-up surnames. Pointless.
Last edited by peterh337; 3rd Apr 2012 at 10:51.
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The LAA forum is what it is - largely moribund. The real names was just part of some pretty heavy handed 'moderation'.
As mentioned earlier there is a hair trigger response to any hint of criticism - which I find pretty ripe from an orgnaisation which changes it name and goals with no input from its own members.....
I very occasionally post there - but what should be a vibrant resource is in esscence a waste. But until the present 'managment' change (or perhaps die, given their attitude to the net and associated matters) it will remain something of a waste.
As mentioned earlier there is a hair trigger response to any hint of criticism - which I find pretty ripe from an orgnaisation which changes it name and goals with no input from its own members.....
I very occasionally post there - but what should be a vibrant resource is in esscence a waste. But until the present 'managment' change (or perhaps die, given their attitude to the net and associated matters) it will remain something of a waste.
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Gasax
I wholeheartedly agree. I'd like to see it dump some of the stuffy attitudes and move towards becoming a much more effective organisation capable of representing all of light GA.
However, there is an element who are holding back the necessary change. In many respects it remains a 'gentleman's' club of kit-builders and change comes slowly, if at all.
I wholeheartedly agree. I'd like to see it dump some of the stuffy attitudes and move towards becoming a much more effective organisation capable of representing all of light GA.
However, there is an element who are holding back the necessary change. In many respects it remains a 'gentleman's' club of kit-builders and change comes slowly, if at all.
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I don't mind so much about posting under my full name on the LAA Forum, and I think the rule sets the tone for the forum.
PPRuNe is ultimately, a rumour network with no claims to accredited or even factually accurate content. That sensible piece of advice you've just read on a PPRuNe post could be from an experienced pilot/engineer, or it could be from an armchair mechanic writing from in between his buttocks.
The LAA forum adds academic weight to its content by fully crediting the posts to the writer; some of this content goes into the LAA Magazine. The forum is somewhat stagnant, but I think that is purely because the majority of members don't have anything of solid value to write about.
Personally, I have a greater issue with the CAA who happily post my aircraft registration details, full name and address onto the public domain without seeking my permission. The DVLA aren't so free with information, so why are the CAA?
PPRuNe is ultimately, a rumour network with no claims to accredited or even factually accurate content. That sensible piece of advice you've just read on a PPRuNe post could be from an experienced pilot/engineer, or it could be from an armchair mechanic writing from in between his buttocks.
The LAA forum adds academic weight to its content by fully crediting the posts to the writer; some of this content goes into the LAA Magazine. The forum is somewhat stagnant, but I think that is purely because the majority of members don't have anything of solid value to write about.
Personally, I have a greater issue with the CAA who happily post my aircraft registration details, full name and address onto the public domain without seeking my permission. The DVLA aren't so free with information, so why are the CAA?