PA28 ditched off Guernsey

[IO540]

Probably not a helpful comment on this sad incident but this is why, after ~50hrs in PA28s in my post-PPL renting, I wasn't going to get a single door plane. I had the lock jam on an Archer once, and anyway it was obvious that nothing short of a snake was going to get out of one in a hurry, especially if the front RHS person is still in place.

[Aero Mad]

Sorry, I meant that it was an odd place considering the aircraft was travelling from Lee-on-Solent to Alderney - no intention to offend. The search has now been called off, and the lady has been discharged from hospital in Cherbourg into the care of her family.

[goldeneaglepilot]

A very sad event, my thoughts and condolences are with the poor wife. The reality is that even if you survive the landing into water (difficult in any aircraft, worse in a fixed undercarriage aircraft) then the odds are against you, you have got to get out, get the raft out and inflated, get into the raft, all of these things to deal with, coupled with shock and fear. Very difficult.
It’s frightening when you take a look at survival times for a person in water without an immersion suit, women last longer than men and the figures below are rough estimates, factors such as health, injury, mental state (some people fight more than others and have greater tenancity to the issues faced) all figure in the equation.

Expected Survival Time in Cold Water





(Exhaustion or Unconsciousness first figure, survival time (in red) second)



70–80° F (21–27° C)


3–12 hours - 3 hours – indefinitely



60–70° F (16–21° C)


2–7 hours - 2–40 hours



50–60° F (10–16° C)


1–2 hours - 1–6 hours



40–50° F (4–10° C)


30–60 minutes - 1–3 hours



32.5–40° F (0–4° C)


15–30 minutes - 30–90 minutes



<32° F (<0° C)


Under 15 minutes - Under 15–45 minutes

[simonrennie]

If this poor chap has lost his life, which sadly is looking like the case he has not died in vein if a few of us learn, discuss and remember from the incident. Yes scary if you read those survival times for the first time but it is survivable and I have in my head from somewhere 90% chance of surviving the chrash into water and 90% chance of then dying of hyperthermia, which is why a life jacket in April, a T shirt and shorts and sandels is somewhat unwise when the water is probably at its coldest. A single door is the least of your problems but you need to be comfortable and happy in what you fly but areoplanes don't know when they are over water or when its dark and currency and an aircraft in good nick is key, cut corners and one day, someone, pays. I carry black bin bags, rope and spare gloves in my grab bag even without the dingy you lose the use of your fingers quickly, tie people together and the bags trap water around your body. If that keeps you alive another 5 minutes and the heicopter is 4 minutes away I will go with that. It might not work if I even need it but its no good being there wishing I had some of the cheap easy bits from home, you can only think about it and have some planning as opossed to none. Busiest shipping channel in the world?.... but you are still a needle in a haystack.

[southport]

Here is a link were his wife says he was unconscious when the plane started sinking & she couldn’t get him out.

He must have controlled it pretty good as he got it down well enough for his wife to get out without a scratch & close to a vessel. Deepest sympathies to his family

English Channel plane crash: Hunt for pilot underway near Guernsey | Mail Online

[seymour beaver]

I often feel uneasy when i read the replies to incidents such as this on pprune.I hope the majority of readers and not instant contributers do feel for the people who suddenly had their lives turned upside down.Ive often seen incidents such as this posted here turn into rants or i told you so advice and thats why i didnt follow pprune for some years.

[Newforest2]

The pilot has been named as Ian Dickinson.

English Channel plane crash: Millionaire Ian Dickinson, 79, killed | Mail Online

[RTN11]

RIP - thoughts with the family. It's always a risk when you take a single engine over water, especially in a piper with only one door.

The Mail article you have linked to there is one of the worst pieces of journalism I've ever seen! trying to link two tragic events into one poorly written article is bad form, and misleading.

[SDB73]

What a terrible trajedy.

My wife and I were flying from the Channel Islands back to the UK, a week before this accident, in our PA28. It's ridiculous that it did, but it brought it all into stark reality, and has really upset my wife.

I am extremely safety conscious, and of course we don't know exactly what happened, but it's made me think that I might send myself and my wife on a ditching survival course.

In the mean time, I think I'm going to revert back to taking the dover/calais crossing to reduce exposure to flying over water in a single.

Our thoughts are (as goldeneaglepilot wisely stated) with his poor wife. What an unimaginable trauma.

But I am also extremely grateful for threads like this, as it helps us all learn. I think we all just have to remember that some people in life are morons, and you have to use self moderation to filter out the ludicrous, thoughtless comments and move onto the next post.

[five zero by ortac]

Perhaps PompeyPaul (in post no.2) could tell us what was "crap" about the weather. Looks fine to me.

EGJA 121650Z 10008KT CAVOK 14/13 Q1023=
EGJA 121620Z 11009KT CAVOK 14/13 Q1023=
EGJA 121550Z 09010KT CAVOK 14/13 Q1023=
EGJA 121520Z 08010KT 9999 FEW025 15/13 Q1023=
EGJA 121450Z 09008KT 9999 FEW025 16/14 Q1023=
EGJA 121420Z 11006KT 9999 FEW020 15/14 Q1023=

RIP - The pilot was a fine gentleman and excellent pilot. A very sad loss for the local flying community. Our thoughts to his family at this terrible time.

[Johnm]

For those of us (like Mr Dickinson) who are regular flyers to Alderney the weather conditions look lovely. I've made that trip many times in much much worse and in a similar PA28.

I'm guessing that his position was because he realised he wasn't going to make the island and chose to ditch in the shipping lanes near a suitable vessel. He would have had the visibility and probably had thought about that option more than once, as have I on many crossings from the South Coast to Alderney.

The fact that his wife was able to exit the aircraft unharmed with the raft and was picked up very quickly by a merchant vessel speaks volumes for the courage and presence of mind of Mr Dickinson.

RIP.

[arrow2]

We will all have our own personal risk tolerance limits. Some people will accept risks of long overwater crossings. I will not now since some engine problems in my then PA28R half way between Le Havre and Littlehampton. Now short crossing only.

Mitigate the risk whichever crossing you are comfortable with - minimum jackets, raft and warm clothing.

a2

[PompeyPaul]

Weather

The weather I was referring to was at take off, Scumhampton which had mist and crap visibility.

[jecuk]

I remember crossing Bass Straight to King Island years ago in a SE Mooney. Overwater crossing are nerve wracking but I just went to 10k feet and kept ATC updated with my position. Twins may have their issues but overwater I would want one every time now.

[fisbangwollop]

Watching Channel Island news last night they said the flight disappeared from ATC radar.....did the flight put out a Mayday indicating the nature of the emergency or did they indeed just disappear as the news item suggests.

A tragic incident none the less and shows how important it is to maintain contact with ATC whilst flying over water/inhospitable terrain which sadly many don't bother to do!!!!

[Malthouse]

Pilot saves wife after landing in Channel when electrics failed - Telegraph

[IO540]

It absolutely beggars belief that he would have voluntarily ditched following an electrical failure, as the DT article suggests.

“Weather conditions were good but there was an electrical failure, none of the electrics were working. As a result, he made a conscious decision to land on water close to a ship they could see from the plane.

Utterly incredible.

[Fuji Abound]

Pure speculation on my part for academic debate and not therefore specific to this accident if an aircraft suffers complete electrical failure over the sea and has no hand held gps or radio i guess some will struggle to navigate. Flying a compass course, watch and map are pretty much your options. Fuel allowing we would make for land and depending on how good we thought we were a specific destination and evetually use the coast as a point of reference. Unused skills suffer over time and how good a job most of us could do is another debate. Would we expect to find one of the cis from 40 miles away, or would we aim to "bump" into france or england? Visibility might be very poor.

I think on the whole nearly evetyone would give it a go realising land any land is better than the sea and with enough fuel would make landfall but i bet many would be a few miles out .

I recall an old friend recounting war time tales of delivering aircraft to the azores and other far flung islands coasting out with enough fuel to get there with a small reserve to search for the islands as necessary but not enough to get back. With map, pencil and often poor met forecasts it left me thinking it must have kept ones attention. Did they have df - well thinking about it i guess they did but i never asked the question - it was a good yarn though.

[IO540]

Some of the old airmen were very good. They could tell the wind, well enough, from the sea state, and make heading corrections that worked well enough. They could fly 100-200nm over open sea and find an unlit aircraft carrier.

Mind you, many didn't, and one doesn't read about those.

Today this is just crazy. You carry a handheld GPS and a handheld radio.

And you don't fly to the C.I. with near-empty tanks so you get the benefit of the lower fuel price, when you could have filled up at say Shoreham and - as an owner, for sure - pocketed the duty drawback on the exported fuel.

But we will continue to see accidents like this.

[Contacttower]

I too think it unlikely that he would have ditched just because he had an electrical failure...there must be more to this...